Any "fast" Freight With Dispolok 182?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by OpenMinded, Oct 5, 2022.

  1. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering, as in the launch article for the loco bundle, it says "climb aboard the sleek and stylish EuroSprinter dressed in iconic yellow accents, ready for service on nightly fast freight trains with the Dispolok BR 182!", whether there actually are any fast freight services in timetable mode? This suggest that there are fright services, which run up to 160kph (which a 185 cant do), as they did irl at some point in the past on this route.

    I know it added 8 new services, but which are they (apart from the Lz trains, loco only)?! It would be nice if someone knowledgeable from DTG could give some insight.

    Of course, I could go and look through them manually, however, should something like this not be provided as basic info with the bundle, somewhere?

    Am I missing something?
     
  2. jack travers

    jack travers Well-Known Member

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    I wish there was any services with the 182 that isn’t freight.
    A 230/50km/h capable train that is limited to 120 or 140km/h is very boring
     
  3. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    You could do the services with no freight cars. Forgot the head code but with pzb and lzb off, you can go line speed
     
  4. jack travers

    jack travers Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I’ll look for it
     
  5. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    It’s basically all the day services that run without freight cars…
     
  6. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    Nowadays all cargo operations in Germany is limited to 120kph. All infrastructure is set to that speed, as well as all the driving equipment. Usually you are limited, as there are no freight waggons going faster then 120kph (with a very few exeptions).

    However, there are freight waggons, like the Laeers, for example, which are only allowed to drive 100, when loaded, except when under LZB, where you can actually drive those with 120kph. The reason is exactly what you have written...

    Saying this, there was a time when DB experimented with fast freight trains, going up to 160kph (I believe also under PZB). They drove on this very route, and I had the feeling the selling point for the 182 was exactly those services. However, I dont seem to find them in game... DTG JD , could we get some insight into this (see my first post, please)?!
     
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  7. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If you set the PZB mode to O you can drive with LZB but with the higher speed limit, handy for the light loco service(s). Also set the brakes to P but I’m not sure if that’s necessary.
     
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  8. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    I usually always do that, as I dont have a problem driving 230kph with the loco alone. Maybe I forgot about it?! I will give it a try again. Which service did you actually run with 160kph?
     
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  9. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    Ok, understood;) In this case, its more a cost factor. Locos that run freight are limited in speed, simply, as it allows for longer maintenance intervals and less wear. I am sure a 185 can also drive 140 under PZB. As they are limited to 140 from their hardware, they will not drive faster, also not using LZB.

    In general, you are right, though. The limiting factor under PZB is always the fixed distance between distant and main signal in Germany. Under LZB this limitation is gone. Hence, why you can also drive the Laeers fater.
     
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  10. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    The route is set in 2022, so the 'fast freight' trains aren't there in the service, but there are the light loco services (only cab car) which reach 230kmph - make sure PZB is in O though, before enabling LZB.
     
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  11. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I only meant it as info for allowing the higher speed limit for LZB and I only did a light loco service with that method, but I haven’t run any actual freight faster than 120.

    I would consider doing any freight services at a higher speed than 120 if I wanted to go faster than I should (and try to catch up with other services for possible extra LZB restrictions) but that would just be for fun rather than doing things properly.
     
  12. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    Understood, however, even in your promo article you say that also the Dispolok is actually a thing of the past. this, combined with sentences like these:

    "Bolstering the highspeed freight traffic that powers its way across the German hills between Kassel and Würzburg is the Dispolok BR 182. Nightly fast freight trains have been a common part of the timetable since the route opened, as such, a plethora of freight locomotives and stock have graced the route."

    make it sound like you have actually taken a small jump back in time with this addon. Maybe its just me, not being profound enough in my English, but it definitely still sounds like that fast freight would be a thing with this addon. After all, why, otherwise, choosing a loco that can actually go above 140kph (apart from the single runs)?!

    Dont get me wrong, I still like the addon, with its single loco runs and other variety it brings to the timetable. However, it still feels a bit misleading.
     
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  13. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, JD, that I am coming back to this, however, I have found freight train 40626, which came with the 182. This train is supposed to leave Würzburg at 02:32 and arrive at Kassel at 03:49. Thats 1h 17min for a roughly 183km journey. If you do the maths, you will find that you need to run between 150 and 160kph, more or less constantly, to stick to the timetable. And I would suppose the AI version of this train is doing exactly this?! By coincidence, that is exactly the speed profile of the old fast freight trains on this line.

    This (plus the, at least for me, still obvious statement in the original article) makes me wonder, if there was not supposed to be a "fast freight train" after all.

    DTG JD , in order to put my mind at ease, could you please confirm that the timetable is either wrong, or a fast train sneaked its way in here on purpose?! :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2022
  14. Cashtag

    Cashtag New Member

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    If I’m not mistaken freight is limited to 120kmh by German law. So running freight this loco would never reach anything above 120kmh. Also I’m pretty sure only locomotive runs are limited to 140kmh because you don’t have any wagons which assist in braking. So if you run using realistic speeds you will never even reach anything above 140kmh.
    I wish it was possible to substitute this loco with the 101 so it could do passenger services. The dispolok 182 has passenger door controls in the cab and is able to go the 200kmh limited by the coaches. Did some digging online and found plenty of pictures of a dispolok 182 pulling intercity services
     
  15. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    The 182 runs up to 230kph. There was a time when DB were running fast freight trains up to 160kph on exactly this line. They were using 182s for them (see first post).
     
  16. Cashtag

    Cashtag New Member

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    I mean that with the current services you would never be permitted to run the full 230kmh. Light locomotives are not allowed to go above 140kmh because they have insufficient braking without any wagons.
     
  17. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    On LZB this does not apply, though, as the braking curve can start way earlier than the usual PZB 1000m.
     
  18. Cashtag

    Cashtag New Member

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    Then how come on the lonely road scenario you are limited to 140kmh despite running LZB?
     
  19. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Cuz you are using lzb. Also it's not really realistic to go the line speed cuz of reasons. Cuz you're just the power car so something to do with brake efficiency and effectiveness and something like that
     
  20. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    I dont know the background and how realistic it is for the ICE1. Could have some other reasons, like stability or something like that as well. After all, it is only done very seldom and only for maintenance reasons.

    But for the Dispolok 182 there are a couple of single loco runs up and down the line in timetable mode, and those are realistically up to 230kph, as long as you are driving under LZB.
     
  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    "Fast freight" IMO = 120 km/h (74.6 mph). This is equivalent to the 75 mph of UK fast freight and the 79 mph of US fast freight.

    Whatever experiments may have been done in the past up to 160 on this line, they aren't done now; and given the Vmax limits of most German goods wagons (100, sometimes 120 if empty), 120 would represent "fast" as opposed to "slow" 100 freight runs.
     

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