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Apology Accepted Dtg?

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by superkillieboy, Aug 21, 2021.

  1. superkillieboy

    superkillieboy Member

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    Has anyone from DT actually come out and apologise to the PlayStation community and other platforms over this fiasco. If just one of you had the decency to come on here and say sorry, then I would think more of you. Like myself, PlayStation users from far and wide expected something would go wrong and it did. Big time! We anticipated it. For weeks now we have had YouTube streams building up to this update and what it would bring. That was answered on Thursday. Chaos!! So instead of the usual statement “ We’re working on it but don’t know when it’ll be fixed” nonsense, tell us, the paying customers that your sorry and be honest about what’s happening. I noticed that Matt was streaming last night (Friday) showing off the new dlc when some of us can’t even play it. Left a bad taste in my mouth, that did. Hopefully they will do a Q & A stream soon and give us the honest answers we deserve along with that apology.
     
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  2. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Active Member

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    They have apologised on most streams but I'm sure Mondays Q&A they will explain more
     
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  3. Cash

    Cash Active Member

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    There is a Q&A on Monday? Has the railfan TV schedule been posted? If so where is it?
     
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  4. OnlyMe1909

    OnlyMe1909 Well-Known Member

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    Have they apologised thoug? In streams they said they know about our struggles, understand our frustration and feel our pain, but I don't believe there has been an apology.
     
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  5. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    Cough cough! Jamie certainly didn't last night and JD didn't really touch on the issue either on Thursday, it was all 'lets look at pretty trains', we'll pretend the PS4 doesn't exist.
    I'd like to see an actual apology here in the forum, simple sorry would suffice to be honest rather than patronising me with the 'thanking me for my patience' all the time. Trust me there's no patience left to thank me for.
    I suspect there's more chance of the devil ice skating past before an apology is forthcoming!
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
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  6. ottselmaster

    ottselmaster Active Member

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    Apology the DTG way: Why dont you go buy Rush hour?
     
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  7. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Active Member

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    I'm going by that they've done Q&A on a Monday the past couple of weeks. I havent seen the schedule yet, but I reckon there would be more heat if they didn't do a Q&A soon
     
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  8. stephen220378

    stephen220378 Active Member

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    They won't apologise as that would mean accepting responsibility for the mess and since they went along with a blame Sony narrative from the start, accepting responsibility would be admitting they lied.
     
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  9. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Where exactly is the lie?
     
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  10. stephen220378

    stephen220378 Active Member

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    The lie would be blaming Sony because DTG submitted an update that completely broke their game.
     
  11. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    But that's an assumption would be a heavy accusation. I don't think DTG is even allowed to do that. Sony's pretty strict with that: You cannot release something when you know exactly it will your playstation go bananas. DTG is now very experienced after all these years - it MUST have been a mistake which has not been detected. Every other assumption ignores the fact that DTG has an accountability towards Sony.
     
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  12. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Oh good. Someone who has the technical know how and competence to know this. Please explain to the rest of us in detailed technical terms exactly how you arrived at this expert opinion.
     
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  13. stephen220378

    stephen220378 Active Member

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    Sony didn't write the update, DTG did, how can it possibly be Sony's fault. So you explain to me how Sony are to blame when they do not alter or touch the update at all. Explain to me also why in the 15 year history on PS Network no other developer has blamed Sony for their update to their game completely ruining it.
     
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  14. stephen220378

    stephen220378 Active Member

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    But the point is they blamed Sony from the start so DTG coming out and apologising and admitting it was their fault would be admitting that they lied. So they can't really do that now.
     
  15. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Member

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    You're correct, Sony didn't write the update however due to the technical limitations of how content can be pushed out over the PSN and the unique nature of how TSW's DLC there was no option but for Sony to update the back end content delivery network files fir the DLC. This is not normally required to update DLC and as far as I know is unique to this situation. Sony must have said to DTG it was possible and it's clearly not worked as expected.

    So yes, it's at least partially Sony's fault for designing the PSN the way they have, unlike Microsoft that do not have these restrictions on Xbox.

    The required Patch could be blamed on DGT (I don't know enough about why it was required to say) be certainly Sony are at least partially to blame.
     
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  16. ianjpoole

    ianjpoole Member

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    Also the XBox and PC have had issues with the update, on a slightly lesser scale admittedly, but DTG didn't say it was Microsoft's fault or whoever deals with the PC side's fault, they came out and they said the blame lay with Sony

    First thing I would love to see on Monday, if there is a stream, I want whoever it is to come out, hands up, yeah, our fault, we're sorry, we dropped the ball, we messed up, we're sorry. I guarantee you that that never happens
     
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  17. ottselmaster

    ottselmaster Active Member

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    They wont. They will laugh it off with a "oh well dont play on ps4 hahahahah"
     
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  18. ianjpoole

    ianjpoole Member

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    Exactly!
     
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  19. PHJ-MGF

    PHJ-MGF Well-Known Member

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    So basically what you're saying is it was a mistake and they simply failed to actually test anything first. Isn't that what they call ineptitude?
     
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  20. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, let's blame the host of Workshop Wednesday for not commenting, which is a Train simulator stream which has nothing to do with TSW or its update.
     
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  21. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Member

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    What Sony was required to do to get the updates out was essentially un-testaIble. Clearly Sony thought I would fine and this has been far from the case. It's what you call bad design on Sony's part.
     
  22. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for pointing that out. Your suggesting the blame him, not me. If you actually read the post rather than cherry picking you'd have seen that smugstarlord had stated they had apologised in 'most' streams. We've only had two, the launch stream and Jaime's stream last night. It may well be train simulator stream but it's produced by the same people, streamed on the same channel, presented by someone who is part of the same team. Get where I'm going with this yet. I didn't expect him to apologise, I just didn't expect him to blank it completely. I appreciate Jaime hands are tied to tow the corporate line and as such zero blame is proportioned to him personally, but as one of DTGs more 'visible' employees I at least expected him to at least reference it.
     
  23. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I'm aware of the entire context, I don't disagree. But, Jamie's stream had nothing to do with TSW at all, so it's not really wise to include it in the "not apologising" list of streams.
     
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  24. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    Followed by "Now let's look at all these DLC's on PC"
     
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  25. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Well, not THAT'S a lie. Just untrue. They do enough streams on console.
     
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  26. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    The next Q&A-style stream (Roadmap) is on Tuesday and we'll cover this in detail at the very start of the stream, by which time we expect everything to be resolved - if not sooner.

    This is not normal, nor is it a level of delivery we believe is acceptable. We are genuinely sorry to those who have suffered a lock-out from their add-ons. We have a good idea of the causes, but we want to rectify the problems which aren't any one organisation's sole fault, before giving you details of what happened - and we will give you those details, but they'll bring you no comfort until the problem is solved.

    It is not unreasonable for you to be frustrated, disappointed, or unimpressed by this technical problem. Until this is fixed we'd expect nothing less.
     
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  27. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    …but if he had cancelled the stream there would also have been uproar.
    Can’t win…

    As a fortunate ps5 user it took me a while to work it all out but at the end of the day if it’s an apology you’re after then I think you might as well raise a support ticket because I’m sure that isn’t the priority…
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
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  28. MrSouthernDriver

    MrSouthernDriver Well-Known Member

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    Hold on hold on. DTG have actually tried to help people as much as they can. Honestly stop throwing them under the bus here they don’t deserve this, it will be fixed when they have fixed it, now do us all a favour and be patient, blaming a company for helping others with this update is just pathetic
     
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  29. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Sam,
    Appreciate the apology.
    One question if I may, honestly why has it taken 2 and 1/2 days for you guys to come out and say this?
    You ( for that I mean DTG) could have easily prevented the forum from the *expletive* storm it has been had someone actually come out and said this a lot earlier. A more cynical man would think you did it deliberately.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
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  30. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed
     
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  31. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    To put it into railway terms, when there’s an incident and you first realise that you can’t get the brakes off your train, you have to run through a fault process and speak to the signaller before you tell your guard.
    That means for a few minutes the passengers don’t have a clue what’s happening until you tell your guard you also have no idea but you’re troubleshooting.

    Eventually you find the problem and you can tell the guard who can inform passengers of what the issue actually is and how long it’ll take to be resolved.

    What DTG have done in their delay is most likely to identify the root cause of the problem so they can correctly explain and correct the fault rather than reflexively apologise for something they don’t yet understand.

    I personally think it was smarter to wait and understand the issue but I can see why that frustrates the customer. Let’s hope it’s all long forgotten when everyone has working games
     
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  32. superkillieboy

    superkillieboy Member

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    Thank you for coming out and apologising to the PlayStation community and others who have been affected by this unfortunate incident. It takes a big person to come out and say that. Thank you also for the update on the situation. This is all we wanted. We look forward to this being resolved in the coming days so we can enjoy the game we love so much. Apology accepted.
     
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  33. Mctrain face

    Mctrain face Active Member

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    Sam's the man

    If anyone at dtg was gonna understand our frustration and disappointment and realise its totally unacceptable its Sam.
     
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  34. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    Sam is the one I trust and respect most (Not a dig at the others), He may not say what we want to hear but he does say it how it is, No messing around.
     
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  35. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    Because I'm able to do so. I'm given leverage due to my position to be a little more wide-reaching in what I say.

    The community team have been working every waking hour to try and ensure you're informed and updated as often as possible - their goal being to give you the right information as it comes out. I figured it would take a little heat off them (try not to shoot the messenger, folks) to take on some of your disappointment myself.

    It's not much beyond a gesture, instead intended to serve as an acknowledgement that DTG is as frustrated as you are that this has happened, and that this isn't what we would ever describe as good enough. It's not a QA problem, a development problem, a platform problem or anything along those lines. The issue is in the sequence of updates that had to be exactly right to update the game. As you can see elsewhere the deployment worked correctly almost everywhere worldwide on almost every platform. That doesn't bring you any joy though does it? No. You got the bad luck on something that was unlucky happenstance to begin with.

    Expect to hear more once the problem is fixed which is what would have happened anyway: fix first, explain later. To do it the other way around only raises more questions while people wait for fixes to occur. We're working with Sony to resolve the problem as quickly as possible. There's nothing you or we can do to make this happen any faster, but we're confident the wait - which we know is frustrating - will not be lengthy.
     
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  36. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Member

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    Nothing was going to prevent that. The angry mob is all about yelling, not listening. That's why we have numerous redundant threads containing even more numerous redundant posts with so few actually constructive. As has been said, there's nothing unjustified about being unhappy, but good grief. This is what leads to people putting on plastic Viking horns and storming the Capitol, and how did that look afterwards?

    Myself, I've just finished a back-to-back of Nier Replicant and Automata and was looking forward to trying out updated TSW2 this weekend. Instead, I've pulled Okami HD out of the to-play stack it's been sitting in for years and am having a look at that in the meantime. I'm also going out later to a local Irish-themed ice cream shop for their tremendous "Hair of the Dog" sundae (one scoop each of Bailey's, Guinness, and Jameson's ice cream), because if I'm going to take years off my life, I would rather do it with ice cream than anger.
     
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  37. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that DTG have actually blamed Sony. It's worth remembering that DTG, in one form or another, has been making games for at least 20 years - I'm pretty sure they'd know by now if it's them who broke the game or if it's Electronic Arts/Valve/Sony/Microsoft/Epic Games.
     
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  38. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Member

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    Thanks much for stepping in on your weekend, Sam.
     
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  39. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    Early Thursday morning, someone from DTG did indeed blame Sony by saying they hadn't flipped the switch.
     
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  40. moofeen#2182

    moofeen#2182 Active Member

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    But everyone knows they lied so not admitting it would just make them look bad on their part
     
  41. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean by 'flipping the switch'? Does that have to do with the crashing update? If so, they're simply telling the truth.
     
  42. moofeen#2182

    moofeen#2182 Active Member

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    Tbh that’s very reassuring thanks
     
  43. moofeen#2182

    moofeen#2182 Active Member

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    The crashing fix came out yesterday now they’re working on a dlc pa4 fix
     
  44. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    That was JD in response to me about Dovetail Live not working on PS5 at the time. It wasn't JD blaming Sony, he just informing us what DTL was waiting on at that point. Someone at Sony Europe did press the ON switch and DTL is now working on PS5. So DTG delivered on that :)
     
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  45. superkillieboy

    superkillieboy Member

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    A gesture that should be standard when something like this happens. There has been questions asked on this forum. There has also been anger directed towards DTG, which could of been avoided. The statement you posted earlier in this thread would of helped take the heat off your community team had it been forthcoming from the team at the beginning of this incident. “Sorry, the update hasn’t gone to plan for customers playing on the PS platform but we’re working hard to solve this issue with further information coming as we have it.” would of been suffice. Yeah, questions would still be asked but that’s human nature. It’s taken till today to squeeze a heartfelt response. For that I’m grateful as I’m sure is the rest of the PS community. Now we can wait with optimism knowing things are moving in the right direction rather than wondering if we are gonna see all the dlc that we paid for again. Anyway, thank you for giving us a glimmer of hope. It’s appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
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  46. OnlyMe1909

    OnlyMe1909 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for explaining a bit more en re-assuring us, Sam. Much apreciated!
     
  47. ady.hewitt

    ady.hewitt Member

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    So another Tuesday , Sam looking increasingly uncomfortable as Matt trolls out the same “hold our hands up” and “but look at the pretty snow in Boston” lines again for an hour.

    Remember that this was put back 48 hours so it went better , imagine if the release had been on Tuesday !
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2021
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  48. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

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    Is there a URL link to go to the stream. Also is it always the same link. I have only ever watched them after the event and from a URL posted and I suddenly find it. Is there a place under one roof Forum folder that these URL's live? :)
     
  49. Scarface

    Scarface Active Member

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    https://profile.dovetailgames.com/l...358.635635435.1629311139-862638317.1586026143
     
  50. moofeen#2182

    moofeen#2182 Active Member

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    It’s Monday they haven’t explained more
     

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