Are Just Tsw2 Routes Compatible With Tsw3?

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by lupojohn, Nov 11, 2022.

  1. lupojohn

    lupojohn Member

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    I put "just" in the title because I was looking to pick up a certain route and it was selling as regular and then another version that said "compatible for both TSW2 and TSW3".

    So my question is will my TSW2 routes be playable with TSW3? I have a bunch that I don't feel like purchasing again. Plus, I would lose all of my progress.
     
  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    All TSW routes were changed from "TSW version specific" to "TSW Compatible", so whether you bought a TSW, TSW2020, TSW2 or TSW3 DLC these have all been changed to anything before TSW3 (with one exception from TSW) being "compatible"

    In other words no matter what DLC you buy from any of the stores it will give you access to the TSW3 and TSW2 versions of that DLC

    DTG have also "fixed" the profile transfer issue, so if you had something on TSW2 and made progress on it, that will transfer to TSW3 when you kick it off
     
  3. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Alas, that one incompatible TSW2020 route is, in my opinion, also one of the best ever. I wonder whether DTG will ever put in the work to bring it into compatibility?
     
  4. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Tbh, not really. It stopped at 2 random stations, the acs64 was built incorrectly in terms of braking mechanics. Sounds weren't great and lots of other issues. So it's better to just rebuild the route from new york to new haven rather than choosing newark or whatever the random station was. The acs64 for Boston sprinter is how it should have been made
     
  5. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what makes NEC New York one of the best routes. I found it a pretty horrible experience. Truly a boring and broken route that I don't miss at all - although I do miss the SW1000R.
     
  6. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    It's subjective really.
     
  7. bsrdj

    bsrdj Member

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    I keep tsw2020 just for the NEC route
     
  8. BLRy

    BLRy Well-Known Member

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    So NEC with CSX is now compatible with TSW3??

    I thought they said they were not going to include that one.
    It was also one of my favourites and I still have 2020 so I could play it outside of TSW3.

    If this is true than woooh0000!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2022
  9. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    It is not true. Nec ny and the gp40 and the switcher. It was never ported over to tsw2 cuz it would have needed to be rebuilt and there were too many issues.

    If dtg were to ever bring it to fruition, then it's better to go from nyp to new haven. Having it stop at newark or whatever it was called was like in the middle of nowhere
     
  10. BLRy

    BLRy Well-Known Member

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    Bummer!
     
  11. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately the way that DLC are made has changed substantially over the years, and this route was a "development cul de sac", ie it's too far different to be brought back without just making it again from scratch
    Maybe they will make the route and locos again, but it won't be an update or a refresh, it'll be a new DLC (which I'm sure those who bought the old one will moan about having to buy again)
     
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  12. BLRy

    BLRy Well-Known Member

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    Great explanation. Thanks.

    Yes, we will. We should be grandfathered in a case like that or at least given a special reduced rate code to use during purchase as a sort of break for having paid for it already once before.
     
  13. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    If it's a newly built route then you haven't paid for it before. You may have paid for the old one, but not this one
     
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  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It would be like claiming a free copy of Cajon Pass because you own Cajon Pass for TSC.
     
  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, it might also stop DTG wanting to ensure that most DLC are forwards compatible
     
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  16. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    The "TSW Compatible" rebrand was a handy future-proofing so that existing routes which work with TSW4 and TSW5 etc will not need updated store pages.
     
  17. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    I believe this is why they ensured that SEHS was one of the core TSW3 routes, so they could ensure that enough who owned the TSW2 route got the remade version bundled with a purchase of any TSW3 regional pack, so as not to have so many players unhappy about paying for it again
     
  18. BLRy

    BLRy Well-Known Member

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    Yeah you have a valid point. I didn't consider that...
    Similar to buying a 5 year newer car of the same model - redisigned and upgraded but you still have to pay for it even with a trade in.

    I admit defeat.
     
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  19. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I'd love to know what your high points are about that route to be honest. I always felt with regret on that route as it was an oddball with wrong start/end points, and a short journey that was always broken in two since no engineer drives through New York (they start there, or end there).

    I *did* however spend a lot of time on the CSX side of that route - so for me, that route was 100% a freight route and I had zero interest in the passenger stuff except as AI. *that* bit, I do regret not existing in later TSW - but as the vast majority of TSW players dislike shunting and want mainline action, I've never seen that component as much of a priority for the wider audience tbh.

    Interested to hear your views.

    Matt.
     
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  20. BLRy

    BLRy Well-Known Member

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    Same sir. Exactly.
    The closest thing to it now is Oakville which if you tweaked it a bit could be even more awesome than what it is. When I say tweak I mean add some more interesting services perhaps an additional loco(s) {GMD-1, MP15, or CN style SW1200 switcher perhaps}, and passenger services for those who enjoy them either in AI for atmosphere or as operable trains for players. If no license for VIA or GO then what about a CN private train in old CN colours? That aside, I'll get to your question...
    The NEC CSX route - loved the locos, the scenery, industrial areas, bridges and over passes, the options of mainline or switching, the over all atmosphere of it, the variation of rural and urban operations. I think for us North Americans it was one of the most relatable routes for all of us which is why it is so loved. Yes there are new routes that are similar in action, but it seems everything is either deserts or mountains and CSX had what these new routes don't.... regular old every day boring urban & rural countryside LOL. It was basic but had variety. The only thing I was truly disappointed with was the lack of the NRE Genset locos but I still had a lot of fun in the included locos.
    I bought it on disk as TSW (upgraded to 2020) and still play it occasionally when I miss it. It was my first experience with TSW and truly is a shame it was not ported over so it could be accessed from the TSW3 base game. But it is still here for me to play when I want to.

    And you mention shunting (we call it switching) vs mainline - I enjoy both but, I think what might be the problematic side for others is that there is no middle ground. ie: long switching accomplishing very little, or long mainline runs with no other action/activity. I think what could "fix" this would be a combination of switching AND main/branch line work. Example: build your train by switching it into being (perhaps by a list of specific cars or strings of cars) then take it out for "delivery" where you would spot cars at sidings or industries and then carry on with your train along its assigned route/duties. At the end of the service, you would either retire for the day at location for return the next, or return to base with empties, or just locos. A lot of options for service/scenario plots. I think CSX did (and Oakville does) this to some extent compared to the other available routes to date.

    Further to all of this, and speaking as a Canadian, this route was very much like Oakville and what most of us here know of railway operations, and that brings me to my next points...
    I would like to see some additional development on Oakville (enhancements and/or add-ons) or new Canadian routes that we can associate more with. I think Oakville (or something new) has great potential. Not just for add on routes and locos but for added interest as a stand alone route/railway. Something to showcase our countryside and operations outside of the major urban areas. I know we are not as huge as the US is rail-wise and with the amount of different companies, and with perhaps less interesting terrain (matter of opinion) but we do have unique and highly operable aspects. Being that you already have license from CN for the game, this opens up a lot of potential for add-ons to cover other areas that CN services in our country. Especially if one were to highlight or feature some of this uniqueness such as single track prairie grain hauls, longer regional traditional (not urban commuter) passenger services, northern and western branch lines, &c. We also have some very interesting smaller railways that could be very popular IMO. British Columbia Railway provides coastal and mountainous routing, Ontario Northland or Algoma Central provide Northern forest and rocky (similar to Clinchfield) routing, Newfoundland and White Pass & Yukon provide narrow gauge opportunity - if you decided to go there - and both are very unique railways in their own right. I know it's a lot to ask and consider, but there is nowhere to go but forward.

    I would also like to take the time to thank you for all of this and all that you guys try to do to keep us grouchy railroaders happy. I do see a lot of negative and complaint based posts in here (I am even guilty of a few) but overall I have to commend you guys and say that I appreciate all of it from all of you. Nothing is ever perfect and everything will have problems and at least you are here to listen and consider and do try to fix them. I enjoy the game regardless and look forward to seeing what comes in the future and what tweaks are implemented to make our play and customizing even more enjoyable. Thank you kind sir for your ear.

    *Oakville locos in livery designer please ;-)
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2022
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  21. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Hmm, maybe there's an option to take the old NEC:NY, strip it back to focus on the freight, polish it up, and put that out. Rather than being about switching, that becomes more of a "local delivery" thing combined with switching.

    Anything involving updating Penn on this route isn't likely to pass muster, it was so wildly incorrect back on NEC:NY it needs stripping and rebuilding (or copying over from LIRR, which isn't as trivial as it sounds)... and let's not get started on the signals (none of which are present on the freight section).

    The challenge with most freight routes is that they're a good distance to get anywhere - and with the average player spending on average 30-45 minutes per session, you're generally going to get either "make up the train" or "take the train somewhere" - plus a lot of people genuinely dislike the perceived "faff" of switching and don't feel like they're properly playing until the train is underway *going* somewhere.

    For me, I was super happy just shifting cars between the waste terminal, Hunts Point, Oak Point, and Fresh Pond for hours :)

    ... and no this is not a leak, announce or any other such thing, just shooting the breeze mulling ideas among great people :)
     
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  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The solution there is contiguous services, like in Clinchfield or El Cajon. Service A is making up the train; if you return to free roam and stay in the seat you start Service B, take it somewhere, and from there you could have Service C, divide up the train at the destination yard. This is little different from what has become common on commuter routes, starting and ending a train's day with a depot move. None of them longer than 30-45 minutes individually, but players who want a 'complete service' experience it's there.

    Another advantage to reconceiving NEC-NY as a (mostly) freight route is that all the CSX rolling stock already exists; and on the mainline you could still race ACS-64 and Acela Amtraks through as layers. (Also, CSX operates MP15s, so a reskin of the Caltrain switcher could be included)
     
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  23. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    I must say, I love the turn this thread took into the brainstorming of concepts :D
     
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  24. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I never played NEC, but Id love to see more local trip freights and shunting/switching please.

    Despite its flaws I love the 204 and shunting and local freights on MSB.
     
  25. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    That one loco DLC for PC has given me SO MUCH enjoyment.
     
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  26. BLRy

    BLRy Well-Known Member

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    Exactly Bill, thanks for bringing this into the discussion. A great compromise and a great idea to bring that MP15 to those of us without Caltrain either in the revised CSX or as a useable cross route add-on. I might also add that CN & CP own many of the larger US railways so that MP15 (most locos actually) is a great add-on dlc for most any route that involves switching since it can be adapted and justified on any route in the hands of CN or CP. This would allow a myriad of prototypical custom painting options for the user also. I would love to have that MP15 but I have absolutely no interest in Caltrain operations. So the only option for me is as a dlc that can be used in any applicable route.

    DTG Matt this system and idea would work well to bring back CSX and as enhancements to Oakville.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2022
  27. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    The potential to bring back NEC New York could also bring the potential to bring back the 'lost' DLC; a rebuilt GP40-2 to break up the usual SD40s and GP38s, plus the cab car and brilliant SW1000R too.
     
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  28. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I did ask a while back about the possibility of bringing the GP40-2 back (you know, "just" needs updating, right? :) ) and was told very clearly that it was a part build out of the GP38-2 - which was the absolute very first loco ever made for TSW (long before it was called TSW, we're in firm "TS2Prototype" territory here) and as such it would likely be a complete rebuild to bring it to current standards of performance and so forth, not to mention a complete rebuild on physics etc etc.

    The SW1000R is a challenge - probably a solvable one as it is a newer model - but more because of the gameplay, I always felt it was somewhat underwhelming and felt under-utilised on NEC and was significantly happier with the MP15 and how that turned out for Caltrain. But hey, I'm up for ideas :)

    Re: the MP15 in CSX... how different is it to the Caltrain one in reality? I know the LIRR one is quite different when you start looking at the details so i'm curious to see how this one varies.
     
  29. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Quick look into it, and it seems that most of CSX MP15's are MP15T's, 3 were MP15AC's - LIRR use the MP15AC's too from what I recall.

    Differences are the AC is physically longer and has some important detail differences.

    Actually according to rrpicturearchives there are 11 MP15DC's...interesting...

    I should stop looking at pictures of trains and go to bed really, but, well, trains... :)

    Matt.
     
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  30. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, I'd like to put in a vote for a yard-service-heavy route. I even have a title suggestion: "What a Shuntstorm"
     
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  31. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    1140-1149 were/are MP15DC's. Six of these were sold ca 2018; nos. 1142, 1144, 1147 and 1149 remain in the active roster.
     
  32. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Has this been polled of late?
    One of my favourite TSC routes was an old shunting yard with an 08 and a load of wagons that needed sorting.
    Also the Grangemouth DLC with the scenario where you had 30 mins to get ten wagons from all over the yard onto a siding... Very challenging

    With TSW and maybe the ability to have active AI dropping off wagons or cars and these then being shunted or stock moved and brought in and out of service I think this would give many people enjoyment, even if it's not "mainline running".
    And IF you could see fit to have an exension or network to make it the players dropping it off (somewhere in future) that would probably appease the others
     
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  33. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I like shunting too, having something in New York where you are moving boxcars around and other trains are bringing them in and taking them away would be cool, the new amtrak train from Boston Sprinter would serve as background traffic etc. Would be cool to have some sort of freight timetable instead of a passenger one, where you are having to get consists ready to depart at a certain time.
     
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  34. BLRy

    BLRy Well-Known Member

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    Yes it can get complicated.
    I would just pic the most common most manufactured type and run with it. Particularly focussing on the railways you offer. A lot of the variants were railway or purpose specific so the one that would make most sense here would be the more common version(s) for general dlc. IIRC the DC was the earlier models later replaced with the AC before abandoning production. It’s been awhile since I read up on them.
     
  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Which is why the BR 363 services on RSN are so great- they do precisely that. Or, you can drive the mainline freight and then watch the shunter do the job as an AI.
     
  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I suppose there are two arguments, depending on whether the intent is future-proofing (where building the AC version makes sense), or getting one into this hypothetical NEC route as easily as possible (which means reskinning the Caltrain DC version).
     
  37. BLRy

    BLRy Well-Known Member

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  38. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I am unaware of the technicalities but as for it in TSW, the SW1000R was and still is a very good train. Beautifully modelled and textured (although most TSW trains are other than an odd few), nice sounds and as far as I am aware not very buggy. As for the implementation on NEC, I'm not sure if there could have been anything else for it to do. It fits roughly the same role as the Class 08 on other routes, and that too is a great train in TSW.
     
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  39. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I loved the freight runs on the original NEC route, but the passenger drives are boring. Only wish more parts of some yards would be accessible.
     
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  40. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    The only bit I'm aware of that wasnt accessible was Hunts Point Yard only half the yard was available - was there another section?
     
  41. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I don't remeber the details any more. It may be it was just that one. TSW2020 feels a long time ago.
     
  42. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    You asked for it: my views are exactly the opposite of yours, Matt. I appreciated (ans still do, in fact) NEC precisely because of its switching activities. In fact, I still return to it from time to time, even though nostalgia isn't always what it used to be.
     
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  43. lupojohn

    lupojohn Member

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    So do I.
     
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  44. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps NEC NY could just be the modern and American revival of Hedborough North...
     
  45. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    That's exactly the same as my view isn't it? Just opposite of what the consensus in from players generally on switching.

    For me that route is all about the switching, and not the passenger. :)

    Let me know if i've misunderstood something :)

    Matt.
     
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  46. BLRy

    BLRy Well-Known Member

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    The night before last our Internet was out and I could not play TSW3, so I dug out my old TSW disc put it in the Xbox one and played NEC.
    I jumped into that GP unit to run a short service and ended up spending 2 1/2 hours switching cars and building trains. Other than having to readjust on a backwards learning curve to the old style controls, and spawning into a pitch black locomotive where I couldn’t find the interior cab light to see what I was going… I fumbled around in the dark and managed to make things happen as the sun slowly came up giving me some light later in my play for a very enjoyable session.

    Soon thereafter I jumped into Oakville to finish off my evening, it was then when I realized that NEC has the best switching operations of all the routes that I have. Which isn’t a lot but by contrast and comparison nothing comes close to the CSX switching in NEC. Even Oakville which is similar pales in comparison. I think the reason for this is the very good balance between switching, moving short trains, and building trains in medium length spurts. Nothing is too short, nothing is too long, it doesn’t seem to get boring as it does in stages of the other routes where there seems to be no middle ground. You’re either on a long haul for miles and miles and miles or your spending hours switching and accomplishing not much of anything. NEC just seems to have this perfect balance.

    I don’t know for sure but the freight ops in NEC may be a partial formula to consider when designing new scenarios and/or loco DLCs for existing and new freight operations. It’s really hard to express because all of the routes offer their own unique operations. And in my opinion it’s all about the balance of operations mainline versus switching versus yard moves versus local drops and pick ups. But the CSX portion of NEC is still a great running route.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2022
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