Are Rain Effects Being Developed?

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Nov 14, 2022.

  1. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I was just wondering what/if there is any further development in regards to rain effects. I appreciate its very nature is an intensive thing to accurately represent and from what my own personal case of Luddite perceives it to be, it’s a drawn in filter over the top of a scene.

    Since tsw3 upping the ante elsewhere the rain seems to juice the fps more. On SOS in rain mode (journeys) I’ve seen as low as 19fps round the yards and low 20s on Kassel around the stations and high tree density areas. I also see this at Dartford station on SEHS in the low 20s around as you enter where it’s scenically dense. 2080ti.

    I know there’s a lot going on under the hood here but my question to DTG Matt DTG JD is whether there is any planned review of rain effects or if it’s a “be nice to look but scheduled behind bugs”.

    Just curious whether you see it as an fps killer scheduled to be reviewed or if it’s a case of it’s as good as it can be in UE4 and what we have to work with.

    Thanks gents.
     
  2. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Wasn't aware it was an fps killer to this extent until recent conversations to be honest. My most recent playtests on cross city have all been in the rain so I could check wet platform effects and fps didn't feel much different at all.

    Get me some specific repro steps and I will absolutely put it on someone's plate, can't leave it running like that.

    On terms of improving the look, would like to but not sure when yet.

    It's not pasted on the scene though, its definitely in 3d space, but it is inadequate in many other respects that to kinda make it look like that I will grant :)
     
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  3. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    I can confirm that rain impacts relatively strong the fps stability;)
     
  4. stanciupushing

    stanciupushing New Member

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    Yes, they are and that's so sad.
     
  5. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Definitely need some specific repro steps.

    Just tried it as follows:
    SEHS, Dartford, Class 465, 1E97 service
    "Lightning Storm" and "Clear" Dynamic weather patterns used

    Both nearly identical 70-80fps. Ryxen 5600X and Geforce 3070.

    Could be the 3070 is stomping over the problem - so let me know your example repro and data so I can try that :)

    Matt.
     
  6. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I'll try and do some videos tomorrow. Just to add some additional context this seems to primarily be outdoor 2,3,8 cams for me.

    95% of time I can run a vanilla game at 65fps locked. I'll pull together some examples.
     
  7. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I've unlocked my FPS so that I can see the actual FPS rather than just the limited (in which case I am rarely heading below 60fps so I dont see any differences anywhere haha :) )

    Please check for INI settings too.

    Matt.
     
  8. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I'm fully virgin on the game now matt except running on dx12.
    I was looking at this too and from what I can see if I'm understanding correct I should be on par.

    https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-RTX-3070-vs-Nvidia-RTX-2080-Ti/4083vs4027



    I'm wondering whether it's me forcing dx12 or 1440 ultra wide that's causing me grief. Experiment time tomorrow I guess :D

    Be interesting to see what others are experiencing or if it's just me
     
  9. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I'll try DX12.
     
  10. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    I found today on my XSX that on Cajon, in 4k mode, something I've mostly not used since launch day, when I tried a variety of services with both clear and rainy presets, at around 6am, 12pm, 6pm, the rain was generally causing me to get around 50fps, whereas without it the majority of framerate dips were due to regular TSW stutter. This was compounded any time I was in external cams looking at the locomotive, specifically its exhausts, where I would get a drop to 50fps on the clear preset, and 40 on the rainy preset, an issue that also reared its head when another loco was in the FoV from the cab.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2022
  11. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Is that not just a perf drop due to the inefficient smoke particles if they are on screen?

    50fps when rain but what was it normally ? 60?
     
  12. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    it tends to be a steady 60 when there's no motion onscreen, from the cab view, and clear weather.
    External cams it sees dips, presumably because there's more stuff in the FoV.
    But back to the cab view- Once the train moves, you get minor dips, as well as the notable stutter here and there, but when there's rain thrown into the mix, it doesn't get above 50, and as I said any time there are smoke particles onscreen like when another loco passes you, or if you go into external cams and look at your own loco, that dips it to 40 if combined with the rain, where it will stay as long as both the rain and smoke effects are onscreen. Either one seems to cause a persistent 16-17% dip in fps, and they stack on top of each other.

    Dips to the low-mid 50s, VRR is usually great at smoothing out, but it gets noticeable below that, which is why I remain highly sceptical of 40hz modes in some recent games. Plus I realise I am still in the minority having a VRR display for my console gaming, it's definitely more noticeable if I hook the system up to my old 60hz monitor.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2022
  13. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I've done a video this morning and tried to do a little rain, non rain comparison. I've done this on the 3 TOD4 routes.

    I've tried to spin the camera around the train and show differing viewpoints. SOS seems to be the most negatively impacted. I'm not sure if this is contributory to the steam simugraph work, the larger yards or rain. Running a dry service thought the FPS doesnt appear to drop as much.

    SEHS didn't appear to run as bad this time, though the station I've shown is normally the problem area as you run from St Pancras down into it. Again I'm not sure here whether this is a rain or the detail required in the catenary drawing.

    Kassel Wursburg, again i've done this back to front but if you run the route in the rain coming IN to the station shown that's where I have seen it get hit hard.

    How I play

    Test system, - 2080ti, i9-10900k, 32gb ram and a 1440p widescreen monitor.
    Stock ini file. - As a rule of thumb I see a more than 50fps in the dry in its current form shown below other than above noted which to me is spot on.


    upload_2022-11-15_10-18-4.png upload_2022-11-15_10-18-29.png



    Conclusion

    I do think there is something with SOS having a big impact, the others as you can see it does hit at times. I will see if I can spot any other instances , I am wondering whether its passing other stock or scenically dense areas that may be making rain seem like it's hitting harder
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2022
  14. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Couple more quickies on SOS.

    I'm wondering whether this is the rain dropping FPS in scenically dense areas as I've unlocked FPS and seen it jump up to 90 at times but these two show where it definitely is not.




     
  15. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    我去測試i9 12900k+RTX 4090
     
  16. Will Marshall

    Will Marshall New Member

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    Corect: Rain/snow capture requires rendering the area from a top-down perspective, so if there's more stuff around the player, that will be more impactful. We render that area to find out how far the rain effect can fall before it hits something, so that you don't see rain falling through overhead structures/trains/tunnels.

    Last week our graphics engineer found some small optimizations to that capture process and there are some other things we can try out over the next [unspecified coder time period], and those have landed in our bleeding-edge development builds early this morning. No idea when they'll percolate out to everyone, that's not my department!
     
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  17. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Rain doesn’t really affect the performance on my rig. Rain with fog on the other hand lowers the fps a bit.
     
  18. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried it on sos?
    I am unaffected on some routes but that is a heavy hitter
     
  19. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    It seems to be on the new or upgraded routes mainly.

    Just tried the brake van tour starting at crewe and the fps drops to the mid 40s. Rain or sunshine. Have you tried lowering the sky quality?

    To be quite Frank I really think dtg should restore the old lighting on sos. This new lighting system has ruined it.
     
  20. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Sehs on the high speed line, rain with fog I get down to the mid 30s. Only at speed though, I think its mainly the gantries as it doesn't effect things much on third rail lines. Kassel would seem the most effected route out of the 3.
     
  21. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    This is similar to what I am experiencing dangerousdave . Arguably 35-60fps isn't bad but if you're needing all that horsepower thrown at it then what are the consoles experiencing potentially
     
  22. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Talking of rain, is there anything in the pipeline to improve the visuals of it? At night time, it looks absolutely awful, as all you can see is a screen of white lines in front of you. It should be a lot more transparent, with the rain droplets looking less like glass shards and more like rain (smaller particles)
     
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  23. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    The raindrops looks bigger too than it did in some of the other DLC's to me.
     
  24. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I think it's the skybox. All the older routes I don't have those low fps issues. Then I do run at 200% scaling, my gfx card is pushed to the redline. I don't know what settings the consoles run? I'm sure I see someone mention you can't tweak things like you can on the pc.

    When I get a chance I'm gonna play about with the ini. I want to raise the quality of some of the things that bother me and lower the quality of some not so important stuff.
     
  25. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Further investigation into Wurzburg in the snow and ICE683 wrapped my 2080ti in two.
    Here's the video, though interesting its not 100% GPU so I wonder if all the rolling stock is not playing ball with the i9-10900

    You can see the difference in FPS when facing the trains.



    Screenshot (434).png Screenshot (436).png
     
  26. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Have you tried raising the scaling? See if you can get 100% out of the gpu? I have the same problem with tsc, where running low settings my gpu never runs at 100% and the fps is shite. Then I max everything and my gpu runs at 100% and I get good fps.
     

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