Good day, I am considering making purchases of the Armstrong Powerhouse enhancement sets over several months: Vegetation Enhancement Pack Sky & Weather Enhancement Pack 2.0 Cloud Enhancement Pack These are really only of use to me if they can be applied to non-commercial routes as I rarely play with the default and other Steam-supplied routes. The majority I use are derivatives of those backdated to the days of steam. Looking at the manual for Vegetation (at least) that seems a no-go unless there is easy bulk replacement? Armstrong Powerhouse say on their web site that the Sky & Weather pack doesn't work properly any more and is supplied unsupported . . . wot? Is this real what I read? There may be some other good threads covering installation possibilities, please feel free to point me at them. Best regards, John
There is a sporadic issue with dynamic rain in the current version of TSC which is seemingly abandoned by DTG. Solution > use v75.8a, which is the best version (also resolves the headlight and turntable issues). See the Public Beta thread. The VegEp is selectively replacing bin files and puts these in the Asset Scenery\Vegetation folders. It is not changing the route tiles itself. These bins will point to AP\VegEP tree Geos. It transforms old routes, Weardale looks gorgeous now for example, and an ash now looks like an ash. I have managed to replace vegetation on other routes too. Freeware routes that use DLC affected by the VegEp will also have the new trees automatically. Most of the times it works by just checking the filenames and adding the corresponding AP bins. The .ap format makes it easy, as you don't have to overwrite anything. Just create a Scenery folder next to it and throw in the bins.
I'd second what Spikee has said - I'm currently going through the mammoth task of upgrading the scenery on my route but the uplift in immersion is well worth it. The VulcanProductions grass is also well worth it (though it is a big job to add it to a route.).
Yes, a lot of freeware routes still make use of obsolete or unavailable ScaleRail,ScaleRoad, and 3DTrains vegetation that were perhaps current when the first rails were laid. But today, better alternatives are available. But swapping isn't a simple copy option.
A lot of modern freeware routes are using the KaMat\Morava and radiomaster vegetation (most of which is actually ripped assets from other games). For older ones, the ScaleRail packs have been made available. Just search a bit. I even got the Hires vegetation from somewhere. The elegant way of how AP do it is it is easily reversible (for routes with .ap assets) as you don't change the routes but only swap asset bins, in that case only the ugly DTG 3D balloon shaped trees.
Core depot is 24009 since TS2013. The manifest decides the depot version. https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/public-beta-build-78-1a.82419/page-3#post-924872 Also, Stainmore Shap Eden Valley works fine on that version.
Thanks Spikee1975 Can I copy this older version back to my Steam setup, so everything else remains as I'm used to? I realise I can't do a file verification after I've backdated.
Just copy the depot_24009 contents over to your Steam RailWorks installation, choose Yes to overwrite! In case you must do a verification, just copy that depot back again afterwards, so keep it in a safe place. The AP Sky and Weather EP must be reinstalled (not the Clouds pack, it won't get touched, just the files AP places in the Kuju and dev folder). That's all. You won't regret it. If you can't stand the old background, you can replace it with any image you want.
I'm still a little confused about this process. For example, in the Railworks/assets/AP/Scenery folder, there's folders called Bush and Tree... that's fair enough, but in many route asset folders, in their Scenery folder, no such folders are present, so not sure what to add, or where to add it.
Me too! There seem to be contradictory opinions above. If the AP vegetation automatically replaces the "ugly DTG 3D balloon shaped trees" (which I remember were once hailed as the best thing since sliced bread - but I have never liked them) in any route applied to, I am interested. If it has to be done manually, tree by tree, it is really not an option for me. I've got better things to do . . . John
That's because, like many, you think in terms of folders... It doesn't matter what the enhanced route's folder tree looks like, as long as the AP .bins are being read instead of the originals. Just like everybody else has... do you really think folk would be so happy with the AP pack if it meant lots of hard work?
It's pretty simple. Each route comes with its own asset pack. DTG are having their set of trees which they have packed into each of their DLC, the filenames mostly being the same. AP replaces the bin files with a file of the same name which itself points to the models in the AP folder. So the route loads its expected "Black_Ash_tree.bin" which AP has changed and therefore loads the AP tree model without actually modifying the route data. Freeware routes depending on these DLC will therefore automatically use the AP trees. Just like the AP sky, it can be applied to other DLC. AP have only delivered the packs for routes they have checked themselves that the trees look appropriate on the corresponding route. They can't do it for all routes, there's just too many. On a different subject, some of the old Kuju 2D vegetation (not touched by AP) looks off, because the textures were made for the initial Kuju RS lighting which was very different and darker. You will see that when you turn off DynamicLights, which uses the old renderer (which actually turns the dark distant scenery into bright white distant fog, that's the biggest difference.) This is how Hedborough looked initially before DTG introduced the new skydome (and the same cumulus cloudbands with strange overlapping transparency to this day) and TSX renderer (black distant mountains as a result to this day because of distant fog always fading to black, Kuju's faded to white.) Now, the Kuju 2D veg looks off in overcast weather due to its bright textures suggesting sunny conditions. It took a 3rd party, AP, to finally fix these issues and also uncouple the distant fog from the upper sky colour. Not bad for the old Kuju Rail Simulator Back on topic, certainly the worst offender was the DTG 3D Ash. That's where the term "ballon tree" comes from. The textures in a spherical shape, flying in the air, and a tad too blueish and undersaturated. This is no bashing, the PC specs at that time required a fast rendering 3D tree. I've copied the appropriate AP bins here too, as Academy assets are also used on many freeware routes, now renaming the external Scenery folder to apply the Ap trees. No cache clearing required, as we haven't changed the asset list (i.e. ADDING new assets). This is the biggest advantage of .ap files, no need to overwrite and create .bak files in case you want to revert something. Just rename the external folder to something different or remove it. Reload the route, tree has changed to a much better appearance. Ashes come in different shapes, and the DTG rendition of a Black Ash just looks off in many places imho, so that common Ash looks much better. We haven't touched the route itself, it still "thinks" this is the TSAcademy Black Ash. You could also make another Scenery\Vegetation folder, rename the current one to Scenery\Vegetation_AP for example (just NEVER EVER rename it to Scenery.AP - this will have very strange effects. I once made this error with a TimeOfDay file and wondered why the game behaved weirdly as ".ap" is a file type making the folder an archive) and try other trees from other sources. And easily switch over in case it doesn't match. Just showing what you can do, not have to. Just install the pack and see how it tranforms the appearance to a more natural look. Call me a "fanboi", I am very appreciative of AP and what they have done to keep the game fresh looking. A few years ago, I was almost done with TS, being unhappy with the lighting and scenery in places. SilverLining (DynamicClouds 3D Weather) made everything appear too bland, wasn't really happy with it except for northern polar days on the Narvik route for example, which no TimeOfDay file can achieve as it requires the sun to sink at 270 degrees and reappear at 90 deg which cannot be changed, only its azimuth. Then I got the AP Sky pack and was in awe, all the old routes, even Newcastle York looked so much better.
Personally I think the vegetation enhancement makes a big improvement to routes. I know some stuff in some enhancement packs has been licensed from other sources, anyone any idea of the source of the assets in the veg enhancement packs?
The only thing licensed is the AP Track EP. It uses Konstanz-Villingen tracks from VirtualRailroads. I am not happy with it, that's the only AP EP which is a bit controversial. Also, it needs adjusting in many places as trackside equipment will be floating in the air and such, due to different height. Ballast colour also don't reflect the real world in many places. It ruined Munich-Garmisch as the ballast pebbles are white alpine colour, the EP turned it into brown which is wrong. I had manually installed it in a way allowing me to easily remove it later, it modifies both assets and route tiles as terrain is also repainted by it to match the ballast colours. For german routes, the freeware tracks by EZY have become the new de-facto standard.
Other opinions are available. I regret buying the AP vegetation pack, as I think most routes look worse with it applied. In my view the structure and general shape of the AP trees is worse than DTG's balloon trees. I also hate the way they are forcibly applied to all routes in their remit.
Well that's your opinion. I've never seen trees in real life that look like DTG's, so me and many others are happy with it. But - freedom of choice. AP have posted a lot of before/after images so you could decide. Don't like it - delete the Scenery\Vegetation folders it created again. Nothing's forced on you. The way TS works requires things to be applied in the way they are. If you think this doesn't look right I can tolerate your opinion but fail to understand, but won't argue. It's your game. Barnstaple - Exeter (still old HST ) VegEp can be easily removed as shown, TrackEP not so. That's not AP's fault, it's the game itself which doesn't have a mod manager and user folder. It's up to everyone to take or leave. I cannot understand people not using AP Sky, looking at this week's Official Screenshots is truly horrible and damages the image the game has. Compare that with the Train Simulator Classic Screenshot thread, it's worlds apart and looks like a completely different game 20 years apart. Back to Kuju days. But - it's a game everyone can enjoy the way they like. You could use the legendary GenericModEnabler though which allows you to revert any changes. Disk space required. https://www.moddb.com/downloads/5-jsgme-modenabler
I have not got myself the AP Veg pack - yet. On some older routes the trees redraw as you get nearer to them changing their appearance. I need to see if that happens with the AP Veg before I buy it.
What I don't like about the AP Veg pack is the terrible tree shimmering if not playing at high resolution i.e. 3xAA 1440p / 4k.
Thanks for the advice. Now I've got v75.8a installed, one very obvious benefit is a significant fps improvement on the Steam version of RSSLO's Rudolfsbahn route.
That's true, I cured that by virtually doubling my screen resolution using Nvidia DSR. It does affect fps but that's no longer an issue now I'm using the lossless scaling app.
Not sure how else I'm supposed to think. For instance, the Cumbrian Coast route by On Track Simulations has no trees or indeed anything in it's folder structure, so how am I supposed to know where it's getting it's assets from? I have no idea what .bin files to replace, or where to replace them. I copied files in generic places like Academy, but it's clearly not loading assets from there. Oh well.
But the AP trees look real... the DTG ones look completely unreal. Are we talking about the same trees here? You prefer this.... to this?
The manual tells you the settings to use to avoid that: To keep the shimmering effect to a minimum that comes with high resolution vegetation, please ensure you have ‘Shadow Quality’ set to its highest within your in game Graphics settings. It is also recommended to use at least 2x2 SSAA antialiasing. Does that make a difference? John
You're supposed to think in a more file-centric way, just as Windows has been since XP.... By doing what we've done for the past 15 years...use RW Tools. Of course a lot of the legwork can be taken out by reading the blurb that comes with routes---usually this will give a huge clue as to which asset packs have been used.
15 minutes with RW Tools...I might have missed the odd one or two but attached is a list of vegetation assets used in Cumbrian Coast
Then the problem is my not just being able to find stuff, as I've replace the .bin files in Academy, and the new veg is not showing in the route. I'll see what's what when I have the time. Thanks.
Some of the AP trees look like a big improvement on earlier renditions but overall from what I have seen my personal preference would still be for the newer style foliage in DTG routes such as Southampton Bournemouth which have Spring greenery and less reliance on scruffy if accurate modern era track side vegetation. Heresy I know but just my opinion. As AP market the pack as a tool for route builders it would have been helpful for those of us who don't want all their routes changed over if they had made the assets available for sale on a standalone basis as well as through the enhancement pack. I get that we have a choice whether to buy or not but because I really don't want to have to change or reinstate a lot of earlier content I am now effectively precluded from accessing any new third party routes which have AP foliage as a requirement.
I think the issue I'm not quite getting is the file names. If I wanted to replace the veg on a JT route for example, there are no .bin files of the same name, and all the trees are just called tree.bin, and the only thing that differentiates them is the folders they are in.. "beech" "elm" etc.... but in those folders the actual trees are just called tree.bin. I'm not normally this slow when it comes to this stuff, so I can only assume I'm missing something really basic.
Out of interest, what do you do if you want to drive between December & early April when there are no leaves on the tree? That's what I always thought Spring was there for.
You must look for the bins not in the AP\VegEP, that's where the "building bricks" are. It wouldn't be AP if there weren't variations of the trees and tree groups. Check the Scenery\Vegetation folder AP places in other routes. It's not that AP has simply replaced each Ash with the same Geo per route, they have used variations which are specific for the location. For example copy the Scenery\Vegetation folder from RSC\GEML to RSderek\WearValleyRailway. Check their names. You'll find DTG mostly used the same names for trees. The easiest way to start is to run the VegEp installer and install the pack to an empty folder to see how it works. When I applied the trees to WVR, I looked into the RSC folders of the AP VegEp first and quickly found the same filenames WVR uses in the GEML and ECMLS folder. Just copied these over and that's it. You could load up the VegEP in the world editor, place each "tree.bin", make screenshots and start making a catalogue for making your very own route specific EP. For example, on the left my WVR tree replacements, which I searched by filename from the right hand side which is the contents of the VegEP (installed to an empty folder and then zipped). I found everything in the RSC subfolders, after checking which files WVR is using. I had asked Richard to extend the EP to other routes, but there's no plans. With AP's perfection, they would check each tree individually, compare with local photos, and might use another Geo for an Ash for example. These are files in the AP\VegEP folder where you could compose your "pack" from. To make it more clear, AP has all these "tree.bins". They looked which matched the location, and renamed it to the corresponding filename DTG used, then put it in the route asset folder. I understand they kept the original bins "cryptic" to avoid freeware routes just copying them and using them for their routes without having the EP as a requirement - only DTG can encrypt their files. So stealing assets would require a lot of work. Fair enough, I can understand there's been a lot of work making this EP, and AP can't encrypt their Geos like DTG+Steam can to make them invalid when moved from their original location. So AP made sure the "average" user can use their trees in their own routes, but must link to the AP\VegEP folder making it a requirement. It's a "soft" DRM by obfuscating the filenames.
Yes and no. I run everything at max settings. But they still shimmer untill about 30 meters from the driver position. (screen resolution 1080x1920)
That's interesting. I have experienced that for a long time with the original trees (and other things) but changed my settings to those in the manual and that seemed to solve that. So I took the plunge and purchased the Armstrong Powerhouse download today and so far the new trees seem to work equally well. Of course, there are many factors to affect each individual setup. Generally I try and keep settings low (especially the shadows which look silly on a dull day) but this has taught me that low settings saved me nothing in efficiency but certainly affected quality. Best regards, John
Without the AP pack the route would use the older trees that you have. AP's method may make life easier fort many, but there is definitely something *wrong* with having the game read a file in one folder set but going to another folder set for part of the asset.
Whilst these settings (which I ran prior to the EP anyway) do help they do not cure the issue entirely, the problem for me (and Kim also I see) is I (we) run at 1080p where this shimmer is more noticeable even on maxed out ultra settings, if I had a newer system (currently saving up for a top of the range beast of a PC*) with a 2k or 4k setup then I wont need to DSR and should not need Lossless Scaling either. * PC I'm currently 1/4 of the way towards saving for is :- CASE: Hyte y70 touch - Black Case Fans: 4 x Corsair RS120 ARGB Kit CPU: Intel® Core™ i9-14900KF - 24-Core [8P @ 3.00GHz-5.60GHz / 16E @ 2.20GHz-4.40GHz] - 36MB Cache, Ultimate OC Compatible MB: MSI MPG Z790 CARBON WIFI: ATX w/ PCIe 5.0, Wi-Fi 6E, USB 20Gbps, 5x M.2 CPU Cooler: CORSAIR iCUE H150i ELITE LCD XT Liquid CPU Cooler GFX: ASUS ROG-STRIX-RTX4090-24G-GAMING RAM: 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5/6000mhz Corsair Vengeance RGB Memory Storage (Main): 512GB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 4700MB/sW) Storage (2): 2TB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 6500MB/sW) Storage (3, 4 & 5): My existing 2TB Railworks M.2, my existing 1TB D drive M.2 (which has all my other Steam games on) and my existing 1TB Modding drive PSU: Corsair HX1000i 1000W 80+ Platinum Ultra-Low Noise ATX 3.0 Modular Gaming Power Supply And to follow when I've saved up a little more.. Monitor: To be decided Keyboard: To be decided So... I'll be doing a lot of overtime for the next few months then..
For my own built fictional route (120 miles) I use the Vulcan Production tree pack version 2. They are almost as good as the AP trees but with no shimmering.
Pookeyhead as far as manual vegetation replacement goes it's a bit simpler than you may think depending on the situation. I've done it a few times now and all I've really been doing is only replacing vegetation that AP has provided a replacement for in other routes. For example I haven't replaced any JT vegetation on their routes since AP hasn't offered any replacement for their vegetation so it's a bit more troublesome to figure out what should replace what yourself. Under normal circumstances for manual vegetation replacement simply go to the route assets folder you desire (if you are unsure of the location go to the SteamDB page for the DLC and where it says "app" in the url replace it with "depot") and file directories should appear and it'll tell you the directory of the assets folder) and it'll most likely have an .ap file. If you extract that with a program of your choice (I use the free 7zip program) and don't choose to overwrite already existing files so you don't override any mods you may have made. It'll pull everything out of the .ap folder for you to view. I believe it's best to specifically only extract the Scenery>Vegetation directory of the assets folder which is what you want and prevents other extracted folders from creating a bit of a mess in the route assets folder. I don't know how to do this specifically through 7zip so I just extract the .ap file into a separate location and just copy + paste the Scenery > Vegetation directory back into the route assets folder and delete whatever else extracted in my separate location. Either way once you get to the Scenery>Vegetation folder it'll have all the .bin files of vegetation related assets used in the route now I just cross reference this with what is in the AP Veg EP assets folder through RailWorks>Assets>AP>VegEP>Scenery. From here this is where I start my cross referencing; for example if I see "Black Ash_tree.bin" in the route assets folder I just search "Black Ash_tree" in that AP directory to see what comes up. If a .GeoPcDx file appears with an identical name then I know it's got an AP replacement for the asset; in this case it would be Black Ash_tree.GeoPcDx. Now to replace it see where the enhancement pack has replaced the asset in question; this may differ for what operating system you're on (I am on Windows 10) but if I hover over the file directory beneath the .GeoPcDx file it'll layout it's whole directory and can guide us to where we can copy+paste the .bin asset file that the EP has replaced. For Black Ash_tree it comes up as Railworks>Assets>AP>VegEP>Scenery>Trees>RSC-GEML. The last file listed on this directory tells us where to find it in the assets folders; it'll be formatted in text like [Provider]-[Route Folder]. In this case it would be RSC>GEML and there should already be a Scenery>Vegetation directory there since the EP would've created it. There is no need to worry about separate Bush or Trees folders here in the route assets folder itself. There you can copy the Black Ash_tree.bin file from the GEML assets folder and paste it into whatever route's Scenery>Vegetaion folder would use the same vegetation asset and it will replace it without issue from my experience. This works because anything taken outside of what is stored in the .ap file will overwrite the .ap file directory commands if that makes sense. If I manually make a TimeOfDay folder for example to manually add AP weather the game will follow my own TimeOfDay directory since it's outside of the .ap file. If this TimeOfDay folder is deleted or whatever is inside it is deleted for whatever reason the game will just go back to reading whats in the .ap file. For routes that don't seem to have any Scenery>Vegetation folder even when extracted from an .ap file of some kind it's probably because it's simply getting it's vegetation assets from another route entirely which can often be the case for third party routes that need other route requirements for their assets. I've never really fiddled with this before since most of the time the route requirements that some other routes rely on already utilise the swapped assets in question so if this is not the case someone like Spikee1975 would be able to explain the process further to locate where it's sourcing it's assets. I hope this explanation was understandable; I am not an expert at this sort of thing so apologies if it was a bit hard to follow.
Here are some routes I've done these manual replacements. Since the original SWC route with branding that went from Bristol-Cardiff has long since been discontinued AP doesn't support it anymore when replacing assets so I did it myself. This is where I want to bring up if you don't see trees that match up with the style of the rest of the vegetation (still DTG style for example) then don't worry it's probably just because AP hasn't provided a replacement for it and you haven't missed anything. It might just cause some jarring style differences as seen here: However they're mostly few and far between from my experience and it doesn't bother me terribly. This is on the BHBP route you can get on ATS for free. As you can see most of the 3D vegetation has been already replaced with AP assets since the vegetation it's depending on was already swapped in a separate requirement folder. Also worth nothing quite a few heritage or steam era related routes despite being set in the UK require manual replacement since AP doesn't really like to meddle with that side of the UK rail scene. Corris Railway seen here; not the best example due to the angle but you can see mainly at the top of the screenshot some of that AP vegetation poking through and in the background. West Somerset Railway vegetation manually replaced as well; the Veg EP winter versions can be seen here.
That's not difficult. Decompile any one of the scenery tiles bin files with serz (or editor of choice) and search for the word "vegetation" in the text. The path to it will be shown there. The chances of opening a tile with no vegetation on it is minimal. John
I'm flying over the map, double click an offending 3D tree. I note its relative path, curse the editor for not displaying Provider\Product path, Alt-Tab and open the current scenery tile xml to get the information, searching for the asset name. So I got this infamous "Black_Ash_tree.xml", I'm looking for the replacement and copy it from an AP enhanced asset folder I found it in into the respective folder. You'll find the same set of filenames over and over again. DTG hardly ever changed them, but watch out. Sometimes there's underscores, sometimes spaces in the filename. For sharing, it's best to create simple .bat files that do the copying.
