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Arosa Streaming First Impressions

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by fabristunt, Mar 19, 2021.

  1. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Watching on YT at the moment.

    The gradient indicator is still reversed. Come on! When is it going to be fixed?

    Also the performance looks appalling. Choppy and unstable...

    I was going to preorder it, but I'm gonna hold off and wait.
    I really wanted this to be good...
     
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  2. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    They have said that the choppiness is the stream, not the game.

    Also it is a dev build. It’ll be worth waiting for a release build to be previewed before purchase. Looks good so far though.
     
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  3. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    The distant scenery is nothing to write home about
     
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  4. RailRoadEngineer

    RailRoadEngineer Member

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    Distant scenery is very bad in all DLC
    Reminds me MSTS days when we had trees billboards
     
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  5. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    The issue is still present after restarting the stream and Jamie is pretending it's fixed despite the chat saying otherwise, in typical DTG fashion...
     
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  6. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    Exercise in frustration as very few chat questions are being addressed, Jamie’s next holiday destination is apparently a more important topic. Yesterday evening Matt and Duncan at least kept on top of the chat.
     
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  7. Oystein

    Oystein Active Member

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    Again they can't get the sounds right. Never bought a DLC from RG that have good sounds, but I was hoping for some improvements in this one.. It sounds like there is wheel flats on every axle in the train.
     
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  8. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    The coach sounds are unbearable... they sound like loud large shopping trollies.
    The trackside scenery looks great and detailed but damn the distant scenery is horrible and kinda ruins it.
    I really like all the custom assets, features and detailed catenary though, it's much better than what DTG manages.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
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  9. lmcpfc2014

    lmcpfc2014 Well-Known Member

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    The bad FPS was just the stream, if you watch it back it's better
     
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  10. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    I'm playing the TS2021 version of Arosa Line while watching the steam. The vegetation is more dense in TS2021, but not by much (also no grass, and single tree type, and no shadows), but the distant scenery is also virtualy non-existent, and you get the same barren hills as are apparent in TSW.

    The thing is, in TS2021 it isn't that distracting, because the detail level in quite uniform all around. In TSW, the stark contrast between highly detailed assets around the track, the high poly cab... and the barren landscape is really much more noticable.

    But this isn't really on Rivet, or this route problem. This is an all around issue in TSW, but it is the same issue lots of sim with long draw distances suffer, and is always difficult to solve without the game becoming a slideshow.
     
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  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Although I rarely build in TS20xx these days one of the biggest challenges was painting the terrain. Limited palette, almost impossible to blend and no copy/paste so you could replicate a good "mix" once achieved. Looks like the TSW2 editor has similar issues!

    The issue of bland background scenery is even more apparent once you've looked at the photogrammetry of MSFS. It's hard to go back to painted terrain.

    I had been looking forward to this one, almost on the cusp of pre-ordering but think I will now wait for the live reviews.
     
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  12. GrayDawg

    GrayDawg Well-Known Member

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    Terrain scenery is just atrocious. They could at least have it done as good as SPG, and that is a much older route. I'm rather disappointed in what I see, to say the least. Train looks good though, cute little stations, loving it, but the landscape....no, just no.
     
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  13. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Biggest headscratcher for me was freight cars limited to scenarios. I don‘t quite follow the reasoning for that. As far as other issues like headlights and pantos are concerned, guess we‘ll see in the release stream.
     
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  14. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not particularly negatively impressed by the distant scenery as I knew it was ugly but it's ugly also on RSN and MSB for example.

    On the other hand I was astonished about how bad the fps were and it wasn't the stream. However let's see how it develops until release.
     
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  15. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    Canceled my preorder. Will wait to see what post-release plans are.
     
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  16. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Jasper promised this would be fixed shortly after release in a day 1 patch

    The performance is due to the stream or restream app..when Jamie turned on the FPS counter in Steam he had a stable 60fps
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
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  17. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    It clearly was a stream issue because Jamie put the FPS counter on and it was averaging nearly 60fps throughout after he'd turned it on.
     
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  18. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Still looking forward to this route, even more so after learning that you can walk around the lake.

    Thanks, Rivet!
     
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  19. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Well Jamie was getting 60fps.

    I thought the route looked good, I like the stock and the stations in particular and there are nice little details. I did notice that there didn't seem to be much in the way of track sounds and I can't understand why there are no freight services in timetable mode.

    I thought on the whole it looked like a nice route and I like the fact you can walk around the lake at Arosa. Shame the DTG routes don't allow the same sort of freedom to explore away from the stations.

    I agree the distant scenery looks very plain but that is a TSW issue.
     
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  20. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    You may have noticed I was quite critical during the stream. I really do think it looks too Train Simulator for me rather than Train Sim World 2 (MSB looks so much better) and the sound of the carriages rattling on rails from outside the train was getting on my nerves. However, the last few minutes of the stream walking around the lake in Arosa with the snow simply blew me away. That imagery was really quite stunning to say the very least.

    I also think the collectables are once again quite fun - especially the Ibex toy, which I think would be better getting placed rather than taken, so you can see it once placed as it was quite a nice asset.

    I’m still not sure I’ll be buying the route. I’m still quite bitter over IoW on PlayStation with missing trophies and there are still issues I don’t think have been fully resolved, but when Arosa is discounted and I’m satisfied the route isn’t riddled with bugs, I just might be tempted.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
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  21. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    If it was just a streaming issue I'm perfectly fine. This route looks nice despite some issues here and there
     
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  22. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed , all dlcs have small issues and bugs , but the most important thing is the overall performance
     
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  23. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately using wagons makes it much harder to copy and paste the services... Service mode is one of the main selling points of TSW, yet Rivet is reluctant to use the full potential...
     
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  24. xblackwolf90

    xblackwolf90 Well-Known Member

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    Overall, I think it looks a relatively nice route. It's definitely something different from what's in TSW so far.

    The stream was a bit choppy but we've seen similar issues with some streams of Jamie's before, so that hasn't put me off at all. The stable 60 FPS should evidence this also.

    I do want the route, but as I'm a console player and IOW wasn't a great launch last time round, I think I'll hold off for a few days at first to see the initial reception around performance and any major bugs etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
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  25. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    It seems to fit the normal MO for TSW routes visually. The train looks fantastic. Immediate close by scenery looks decent-good. However again the product is let down by the appallingly low draw distance of TSW. I can see Rivet did as much as they could to try and make the sweeping alpine views look good, but TSW just isn't up to the task. The Unreal engine can do so much more than DTG do with it. It's a shame. It results in muddy distant scenery with bland, pudgy green blobs for mountains. It looks like Rivet gave it their best but were hamstrung by the design of TSW itself. Was afraid that was going to happen when the Arosa Line was announced. A route that needs to make use of long draw distances and detail beyond the immediate 10m around the train was always going to struggle with a game that is notably poor at long draw distances and detail beyond the immediate 10m around the train.

    I've bought every TSW route, usually at launch, but was really let down by SEHS's lack of detail and what to me was an overall sloppy scenery (TS1 had more detailm custom assets, and effort to match reality than the TSW version, which shouldn't happen, period.). Giving this a pass.

    Edit: Extra credit to Rivet for trying to avoid using the DTG default stark white Walmart Special Plastic X-Mas trees in winter when possible. https://www.christmascentral.com/4-...ACYG-XbPpJy8dzSh5-9P-QN6oii4jz-0aAjOHEALw_wcB
     
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  26. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I quite agree. Between the rather unfortunate Br 204 services, the issues of the IoW timetable (or lack thereof) at launch, and the absent freight services for Arosa, it seems like Rivet fails to understand that the service mode is the heart and soul of TSW. It would appear to me that they‘re still designing TS gameplay rather than TSW gameplay.
     
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  27. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

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    Just poor really. Several inaccuracies, distant scenery is unacceprtable... gradient reversed? Who ships with that and says its fine?
     
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  28. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I like the DLC as a whole, but I agree with most of the points here - passenger cars being too loud, distant scenery and freight trains.

    Why no freight in timetable??? Someone even asked Jasper if there's a reason for them not being in there (32:55 in today's stream)... and the answer was "no"... eeerm... so if there's no reason not to have them in timetable... put them there! You've made a whole freight car to only be used in some scenarios? Why? It would be great to be able to shunt them in the sidings, bring them to chur, bring them back up the hill... or can't the dispatcher handle it... making it a REASON?

    Also, DTG should probably do something in core with the distant scenery - maybe have us set the density (default to low on consoles), so strong PCs can have more dense trees if they can handle it. It would also help to "break" the distant hills somewhat - add some dents like from a water flow, paint them with more variety etc. That would help a lot. A smooth single-coloured hill is not going to cut it in "next-gen train sim"
    [​IMG]
    This picture has already once been posted somewhere in the forums, but it is a great example - you have no foliage on the mountains, but because of the dents and multiple textures they look rather good and the ones in the back are absolutely fine. If old simulators are anything to go by, creating such dents in Trainz was not difficult at all. Yes, it would take some time, but one person just going through the map doing distant hills in such a way would help a lot.

    I gotta say this route will probably benefit a lot from winter runs as the distant scenery looked a lot better covered in snow. It's Switzerland after all, it will be authentic. :D
    upload_2021-3-20_0-50-39.png
     
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  29. Cyklisten

    Cyklisten Well-Known Member

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    Gradient is reversed every time you are driving the loco from the second cab, you can clearly see it on the map view (9). I don't understand why people keep blaming Rivet for this.
     
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  30. GrayDawg

    GrayDawg Well-Known Member

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    The Gradient is reversed thing, isn't that a DTG core thing in TSW itself? I'm pretty sure I heard, I think it was Matt, talking about it briefly in some stream quite a while ago.
     
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  31. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    I had preordered the route earlier this week after seeing all the images this last few weeks but I’ve cancelled the preorder as I must admit I felt a little underwhelmed after tonight’s stream. The main reasons being lack of any freight services outside of scenarios (I usually prefer to run timetable mode rather than scenarios) and the sounds of the rolling stock which sounded pretty annoying IMO.

    I think I’d rather wait till after launch and see the release build played in streams and reviews and then reconsider whether to purchase it. The extra £2.50 I’d be paying isn’t going to break the bank.

    The other option for me may be to leave it till any additional stock/activity packs are released which was mooted that there might be when I asked the question on the stream tonight.
     
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  32. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I posted this on the Article Discussion section but it's more appropriate to have it here.

    The route overall is good. One thing I didn't like was that some objects and props seemed like they were made out of plastic and didn't really fit in the environment.
    Screenshot_20210320-010056_YouTube.jpg 20210320_010321.jpg Screenshot_20210320-010135_YouTube.jpg


    It seems like some of the textures they used are very bland or at an extremely low resolution, loosing much of that details that really gives that "realistic/authentic" feeling as it stands those look sort of out of place in an otherwise very well modelled route to me, and I think in this area TS is still generally better than TSW. Particularly Chur seems like it's made out of LEGO in some places, that town can be as clean as you want, but you can't tell me all the roads are a perfectly smooth, perfectly uniform surface.
    Distant scenery seems plagued by a similar problem.

    I really hope if/when TSW gets a Next Gen version Rivet will come back to this route and increase the resolution of these textures, but seeing how they ignored IoW a few weeks after release I wouldn't hold my breath.

    It's a shame request stops will seem to be stricly visual, I still didn't get wheter or not we can play without HUD and see if we have to stop by looking at the flashing lights, that would be fun.

    Eveything else is fantastic, the track is much better and more detailed than in TS, the OHLE is top notch and better than what we have seen so far in any other DLC. The train seems to be modeled to a very high standard and with extreme attention to detail, it's nice to see so many little features being included (fan in the cab, ability to open windows/lower the blind in the coaches, mirrors in the loco, etc...).
    Also many of the stations seem to be really well modeled and textured.

    The driving experience seems to be very interesting as well, being almost completely effortless going uphill (thanks to the AFB-like way to control the train), but interesting and challenging for the downhill runs, particularly in low adhesion conditions, also it will be fun to learn a new safety and signalling system.

    I also loved the fact you have so much free space around Arosa, this is one of the areas where TSW really shines in comparison to other train sims.

    I think this route is really pushing to the limit TSW, showing both how good it can be in some areas (how many things you can interact with, both as a driver and as a passenger) and how bad it is at some other (texturing, distant scenery, inflexibility towards more complex systems - request stops)
     
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  33. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    The lack of detailed scenery is kind of appalling when you really think about it. And it cannot possible be entirely performance related. Examples below:



    image0.png The bare mountain in the background and overly washed out colors in this screenshot honestly make this look like it's a mobile game (in this particular shot)







    image0.jpg
    This screenshot is from the stream. The combined lack of trees and poor placement of the few that are here make for this horrible visual experience shown in this shot. Especially when you compare to the same location (below) in the TS classic version of TS (ironically, also developed by Rivet.
    Screenshot 2021-03-19 192838.png






    The reason this cannot be entirely performance related is shown below with a screenshot of the upcoming Clinchfield route by DTG. Plenty amount of trees in the background mountain scenery and looks very realistic visually. Clinchfield_Article_18_03_21_18.jpg

    So, in conclusion, Rivet is either (in order of likelihood) 1. Clueless on how to optimize, 2. Rushed the route, or 3. Just plain lazy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
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  34. RailRoadEngineer

    RailRoadEngineer Member

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    Well spotted!!
     
  35. RailRoadEngineer

    RailRoadEngineer Member

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    Rivet XD
     
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  36. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Why nagging about performance? If you really watched the stream you could have seen frame rates that are OK. The issue is in the streaming not in the game. Criticism is OK, but it should be fair.
     
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  37. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    No freight services means probably a no-buy for me.

    Like others have said, service mode is the heart of TSW, and Rivet doesn't have a great track record with the 204 and IOW in this regard.

    Might reconsider after launch if improvements materialize.
     
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  38. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    I no buy arosa route
     
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  39. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    Just plain lazy
     
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  40. markhazeldine

    markhazeldine Well-Known Member

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    Great train, great line-side scenery. Disappointing that there's no freight as I assume that's really common on the line. Disappointingly plain road textures in Chur. TERRIBLE lack of trees on the mountains. Those screenshots above of TS and Clinchfield in TSW show what's possible and even taking consoles into account, this is just poor. Jasper said on the stream that they were trying to balance between performance and visuals, which I totally get, but if this is really the best they can do, then we really have a problem. I would rather we had 2D trees and darker painted terrain than this mess. I really want to own this route as I love Switzerland, but I feel conflicted because I don't want to show them my "support" by purchasing it when it's been done this poorly. Hmm.
     
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  41. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    One for the Christmas sale when it’s going for £11.99. Saving my money for Clinchfield, now.
     
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  42. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    My impressions are very good.

    Besides, they are so good that I pre-sold immediately last night after the live.

    For the mountains in particular, it's not worse than on TS so that's fine with me.
    For everything else for me and just for me, it's very good.
    The installation of assets is good, the rolling stock is very good, the traffic on the roads is great, there are just people missing in the streets and we believe it!

    I'm just disappointed that I didn't have a freight service or two.
    On this point I'm sure that with a good DLC we will be entitled to some additional freight services, one or two wagons and a nice extra loco for later ...

    In short, a good relaxing DLC like the WSR (which I really like), I'll take it as a nice trip to the mountains and at 30 euro the ticket I think it's not too expensive to go on vacation.

    PS: I always prefer to buy a new DLC to test it myself because the videos never render what you have at home on your PC or console.
    I would add that on steam we can get a refund if we have played less than 2 hours, which for this route will be a round trip.
    I think that in 2 hours I have time to see if I like it or not.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2021
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  43. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to give my feedback as well.

    First, the positives: The locomotive and passenger cars look absolutely amazing, they are extremely detailed and beautiful even from up close, inside and out. Kudos to the team, it really is very nice. I don't like older trains, mind you, so I still wish the modern Allegra was in this route, I can only imagine it with this detail, but that's subjective on my part. Technically the train is very well modeled and it is great to see.

    Another thing is the signaling system which I really liked. Always nice to see variety in this regard and the unique layout of this line makes for some interesting scenarios I'm sure. Apart from that, the stops are very nicely detailed and there are some beautiful buildings, etc. Also, it's very refreshing to finally see a route that's not from the usual trio of TSW countries (UK, Germany, USA). Variety is always good so I'm glad that after Oakville and LGV we have a third unique country represented.

    Now, the negatives: In short, the scenery. As beautiful as the train itself is, the scenery for me was just as underwhelming. A post above me described some of the issues well, illustrated with screenshots. At one point I had to ask whether the textures on the big bridge didn't load, because it looked so bland. The pavement in Chur also looked like it didn't have a texture. At several points during the route even the grassy hillsides looked like they were a simple green texture. There's very little "depth" to both the textures and the foliage. The stone walls also have a very homogenous, tiled texture and they don't look real, they look like plastic, flat. At the curves everything is very angular, the scenery looks "low-poly" - the reason may be that some of the objects were directly imported from TS 2021. I don't mention the distant mountains because it was glaring to see, there's very little detail and it sticks out in a scenery like this.

    In comparison, some of the routes made by DTG feel much more densely packed, detailed and realistic. Just for comparison's sake, while driving through SEHS I perceive "real objects", stones, bridges, trees, not polygons and flat textures which was my feeling watching the Arosa stream. At a lot of places it felt like a bunch of low-poly objects put together in an editor rather than a real place.

    I think my disappointment mainly stems from that after seeing Arosa Line in Train Simulator, I couldn't wait to see such a scenic route in TSW 2, but I just didn't see the upgrade I expected. Emphasis on "scenic". I think it's a vital part of this route but only the train reaches the level of detail expected from TSW 2, the scenery does not, and it makes for a discrepancy, a little uncanny valley if you like.

    I hope some of the issues are purely down to the stream quality and more detail will pop in better quality streams and videos.

    Edit: Oh, one more thing: the gradient. I can't imagine that for half of the services the gradient would be reversed. It is extremely distracting, I hope the core team can finally fix it (I know it's not an Arosa bug).
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
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  44. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    A lot of the textures look cel-shaded to me as if playing The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker. The road surface in Chur is abysmal.
     
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  45. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    My impression was that Rivet had done an excellent job modelling the vehicles and signalling but hadn’t nailed the scenery.
    Switzerland is not north Wales with scattered pine trees.
    It does need a makeover.

    I hope snowy scenery might improve the illusion of location.
    We’ll have to wait and see.
    Definitely on the fence here.
     
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  46. jstange

    jstange Member

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    I have no idea why people are so critical about the distant scenery, to me it looks brilliant and is a reasonable improvement over what we have with MS Train Simulator. It may be beaten by MS TS 2 when it's released probably some time around 2004 or 5, but until then - top notch!
     
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  47. vyncwr

    vyncwr Member

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    :D
    I love sarcasm.

    I didn't expect much from the distant scenery, I definitely will buy this as I like relaxing routes like this. I loved it in TS, I think I'm gonna be ok with it in TSW as well. Hopes for an Allegra as DLC.
     
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  48. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Yep, is definitely one thing we can't blame Rivet for, however DTG really need to look at this bug and fix the core... Operationally, having a fully working HUD is pretty important...

    Same here. Will see how Clinchfield is tonight, however I imagine my wallet will sway that way instead...
     
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  49. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    The train I thought looked really good, so good in fact it looked out of place in that scenery. Bits of that scenery were like revisiting the Amiga 1200 days. I think Jasper made a comment about the consoles again. I appreciate the sentiment with being inclusive to consoles but what I cannot fathom out is why can the game not optimise in the following way.

    Xbox and PS = It'll run, don't whinge as you have a train and you have some trees.
    Xbox one x and Ps pro - We'll give you a few more trees and some updated textures.
    Series X and PS5 - Welcome top 2021 you can have more distance, more trees, more textures, more features.
    PC Master race - You can have the same basic, advanced and ultra settings (and if you choose ultra dont whinge about your FPS as you're getting even more trees).

    Having read so many things I understand commercially they need to support consoles. I'm at peace with that but I want to see what my pc will fall over with.

    Those building textures were an absolute shower of "sheep". I achieved similar once drawing a rectangle on MS paint and using the fill tool. The trees too were just reused assets with no variety. Real shame on some of the scenery too.
     
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  50. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    I’d love to show my support for Rivet by buying this but after watching the stream I just can’t. Not until it’s in sale and the bugs have been fixed anyway. The gradient being wrong was very distracting. The loco itself is lovely, and could be very fun to drive.

    Distant scenery leaves much to be desired.. See attached image. It’s just bad, very bad.
     

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