Bad Render Distance Tsw3

Discussion in 'Train Sim World Discussion' started by ethcr#4723, Oct 16, 2022.

  1. ethcr#4723

    ethcr#4723 New Member

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    Why is the overhead wires and the things that hold it up all blurred and the scenery ahead. Also the track help please!! Never had this since the last update.[​IMG]
     
  2. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    What graphics setting are you on. I've noticed a bit of this too.
     
  3. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I run most things on ultra and it feels like it’s lower quality. I think the introduction of the new sky and lighting has made other things be wound back potentially hoping we wouldn’t spot. I’ve see a lot of blur and late loading assets
     
  4. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    I would hope that DTG understand that optimisation should never mean degradation – but my first impression of TSW3, loading into SEHS, was, Why does this look so bad compared to TSW2? Washed-out, flat, seemingly less detail – but I think less detail and flat is an illusion caused by the overly bright lighting. Lighting plays a huge part in realism. And yes, worse rendering distance/LOD.

    I'm glad it's not just me. I'm not going mad.
     
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  5. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    It seems like there are just never ending performance and visual issues with TSW... :(

    One step forward, two backwards
     
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  6. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Has anyone done any comparative 2 vs 3 shots in a thread showing the differences?

    Nothing has changed on the old routes so I wouldn't expect anything, and we've not adjusted rendering distances or anything for TSW3 so i'm confused (not doubting, just can't think of an obvious reason for it).

    I'll ask Tech Art team to review and see if they have any thoughts on it.

    Matt.
     
  7. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Matt Hi.

    I'm just giving SEHS Extended a spin and to my eyes, it looks like something has changed with the distant rendering. It looks out of focus/blurry looking and not as sharp as it used to look.

    All in game settings remain the same, at high and ultra, however its almost like the global setting has been locked to 720p or something quite low res. The detail just isn't there.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2022
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  8. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, I remember using your ini londonmidland for TSW2 and it was crystal clear at horizon. On this it’s like AA is screwed or it’s massively reduced detail , could that be to keep people FPS up? Either way it’s not as was
     
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  9. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    The stations on Kassel really suffer with blur on pylons
     
  10. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Whats also strange about TSW is that it looks totally terrible in 1080p even with TAA.
    No other game acts like this
     
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  11. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Ok similar to the other thread - can we establish if this is a TOD4 thing (will only be apparent on the new TSW3 routes) or if it is indeed present on all routes including legacy TSW2 and prior content?

    If present on TSW2 content, can I get some comparison shots showing the same route/scene etc in TSW2 and running it in TSW3?

    No intentional changes were made here, so I need to narrow down where it is to find the probably unrelated unintentional side effect that's potentially caused the change you're seeing - the more help you can provide the quicker we can understand the issue.

    Matt.
     
  12. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think it might be TOD4 Matt. When I was zooming in on my colour comparisons there didn’t appear to be a lot of difference I could pinpoint initially other than the SEHS. I really notice it in the yards on Kassel where all the pylons seem low res as you pass through. It’s like distant scenery is lower res or shimmers. Appreciate you need more concrete though
     
  13. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Interesting - well, let's fully understand the situation with TOD3 and either identify any issues or put it to bed as not a problem, then we can move on to fully understanding any issues on TOD4 - taking it step at a time will help move things along in a way that the team can investigate.

    if you (or anyone) can post some shots on TOD3 showing it's all a good match OR that it isn't, then we have a clear answer on that (and if they're the same, this thread then serves as verification for anyone who's thinking it might be different of course :) ).

    Matt.
     
  14. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to be a luddite Matt but what are you looking for with your above post and I'll try to help if I can.
     
  15. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    So the complaint seems to be that things look worse now - e.g. tsw2's comment above "looks totally terrible". So what i'm looking for first is - is it worse on TSW2 routes. So, similar to what you've just done on lighting, some comparison shows highlighting the issue, or showing that there isn't one, on TSW2 routes between TSW2 and TSW3.

    Then separately, comparison shots probably from SEHS as its the only one you really can, showing the TSW2 and TSW3 versions and where it's inferior there, along with some general shots from TSW3 showing issues and something "similar" from TSW2 (same time of day, same weather, same distance/zoom setting etc) showing what you'd have expected it to look like vs when it does on TSW3 - these won't be precise comparisons of course since there isnt TSW3 versions of the routes but should be able to give a good indication that I can start pointing people at.

    Thanks!
     
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  16. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone else chip in and help with this please? I will try and get some screenshots done again tomorrow to look for any areas. Anyone have any starting points to go at?
     
  17. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Just had a look this morning and from what I can see TOD3 to TOD3 other than the query we may have picked up with the lighting there seems to be parity in detail. I can confirm I've checked both ini files as vanilla this time round. If anyone can help with any SEHS comparisons that will be appreciated as there may be stuff others spot.

    This is Equipment move on Oakville

    TSW2 top, 3 below
    Screenshot (362).png Screenshot (361).png

    TSW2 top, 3 below
    Screenshot (363).png Screenshot (364).png
     
  18. ethcr#4723

    ethcr#4723 New Member

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    It looks like on Tsw3 at the max graphics. All the ballast and overhead wires and the telegraph poles stuff like that don't render until you get a certain distance away from it. If your going a 125 it's terrible. The lighting on the rails too.
     
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  19. ethcr#4723

    ethcr#4723 New Member

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    I have only noticed this since the lastest update.
     
  20. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    The route where I feel the quality seems a lot lower is Kassel. When you go through the open areas where there are lots of pylons it all seems a much lower res, or at least perceptively. Im sure a screen grab would show otherwise but there's something about that route in bad weather that just seems amiss.
     
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  21. ethcr#4723

    ethcr#4723 New Member

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    More pictures of it the track ahead is non existent
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  22. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    How do those shots look on TSW2? Can someone grab those?

    Matt.
     
  23. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    What service and train are you using here?
     
  24. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 - That's everything turned up to max.

    Screenshot (370).png

    Screenshot (371).png
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2022
  25. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    ethcr#4723 shots look like they're mouse-zoomed in fully?
     
  26. ethcr#4723

    ethcr#4723 New Member

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    Yes they are. Idk why the track ahead isn't rendered.
     
  27. ethcr#4723

    ethcr#4723 New Member

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    Gwr from old oak depot to Paddington
     
  28. ethcr#4723

    ethcr#4723 New Member

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  29. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    chieflongshin's shots aren't zoomed in - so they're not like for like. i can see the track stopping in the distance and want to see how it compares zoomed in so we can compare like for like to be sure what the difference is.
     
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  30. ethcr#4723

    ethcr#4723 New Member

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    Ok I'm sure he'll do that for you. But yeah I haven't noticed it since the last patch. Yeah track just stops. It's like a circle following you then when the track enters the circle it will render it.
     
  31. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    I don't have an issue with track or catenary not showing but have a real problem with trees which change shape as I approach them, especially at speed. It's very distracting. I can't remember whether this was an issue with TSW2 and since I've got TSW3, I've now uninstalled TSW2 so can't compare the two.
     
  32. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Happy to go back and try and zoom in. I’m wondering if I might look too different in this instance as I’m on an ultra wide monitor so my perspective may look skewed. I can jump back on and use the mouse wheel zoom but I. Not sure that’s going to give you what you need.
     
  33. March Hare

    March Hare Well-Known Member

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    This is one thing that bothers me terribly. It's some of the poorest LOD (level of detail) implementation I've ever seen.
     
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  34. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Do these help. TSW2 - No zoom and full zoom
    Also a depot flyover. I haven't checked TSW3 as yet but you can see a track pop in, tree pop in and then the bridge fascia textures jump in quite visibly.

    Screenshot (372).png Screenshot (373).png Screenshot (374).png Screenshot (375).png
     
  35. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think you can see the tree thing in this video. I "believe" its the shadows popping into them too. This is something I notice myself a lot.

    Similar video for TSW3 here. (Might still be processing as of time of posting)
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2022
  36. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I will dissent and say that I have not noticed any changes between how TSW2 routes are presented in TSW3. The discussion about lighting and highlights ended up being placebo like I suspected, and in the comparison shots above I do not see any difference in "blurryness" or clarity in the images. It all looks the same to me on my 1440p monitor, and usually have quite the young eyes for spotting these sorts of things.

    TSW3 routes with TOD4 is another question. I do think there is a problem with distant shadow rendering on SEHS but I think this was confirmed that the distant 2D trees weren't given proper baked shadows. In terms of model geometry and anti-aliasing, it seems the same. My personal suspicion is that differences in people's custom Engine.ini configurations between TSW2 and TSW3 may contribute to the feeling that TSW3 is different, even if at vanilla both games are the same.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2022
  37. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I personally having done the comparison think the old TSW2 to 3 ports are nigh on if identical. I think for me (and this is just my preference) would be understanding what tweaks I need to make to cut the pop in or push it back further so it's not as noticeable. I need to dig into the SEHS and Kassel routes to see if I can pick anything more up but would appreciate anyone elses support with this too.
     
  38. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    I noticed this on HRR a while back. The view distance of the tracks seemed lower than what I remembered from TSW2 but it had been a long time since I used TSW2 and I didn't have it installed at the time (or now) so I started doubting myself, thinking that maybe I just had gotten used to the track texture upgrade with Riesa-Dresden.

    Does anyone have both games installed and are able to make a comparison shot like above, but on Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr?
     
  39. Warspite

    Warspite Well-Known Member

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    I just started a service from Rochester on SEHS and the tree "pop-up" seems far worse on TSW3 than it was in TSW2 although I have no way now of proving that. The bushes on the Kassel route are also popping up very noticeably. On both routes, this was happening at very slow speeds. However, as I said in an earlier post, I'm not seeing the track or catenary problem that others seem to be having.
     
  40. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    It’s not just tree pop in. Stations and buildings and smaller objects located in the vicinity of stations all seem to have a much reduced LOD distance on approach. It does ‘feel’ worse than before.
     
  41. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    I have to say the Tree LOD is the worst i have ever seen. For a train simulator with lots of trees left/right of the track this should be a #1 priority to fix for DTG, especially since we are now on TSW3

    Actually, trees in the old TSC, especially with a mod look much better in all circumstances

    Especially because they dont change their LOD every 0.5 seconds right infront of you like in TSW.

    DTG JD
    Is this something that the team is working on?

    Especially, distant trees have no shadows and all tree shadows pop in 150m infront of the player which looks terrible and unrealistic of course. :(
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2022
  42. 21c164fightercommand

    21c164fightercommand Member

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    Well, this major issue has not been addressed over the 5 previous years of TSW, so I doubt it will be anytime soon.

    Issues like this still prevent me from upgrading to TSW3, no amount of fancy clouds will convince me when trees, rails, buildings and even trains still pop up in front of me.
     
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  43. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    It just looks ridiculous for a 2022 game to have constant shadow pop ins a few feet (rails) or a few dozen meters (trees) in front of you.
    It basically ruins the whole visual appeal of the game and as you said, no level of fancy clouds or "eye adaption" will ever compensate for this massive visual issue.
     
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  44. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Tsw3 looks terrible in comparison to tsw2. There's no doubt about it! Lod, render distance, sharpness. It's all been messed with somehow.

    I've said this several times with no acknowledgement from dtg! But for what it's worth... screen percentage has a major effect on the overall quality of everything. Totally different from the way it worked in tsw2.

    If you guys at dtg can't see this then I suggest yall take a trip to specsavers.
     
  45. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    As said above please can you demonstrate the issues you're seeing in screenshots. Have been to specsavers and got charged a fortune for glasses last time so not in a hurry to go back :)
     
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  46. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Matt I'm wondering if you can't see what we are seeing because you are playing on max settings?
    If I play on a hd display then I can play max settings with 200% scaling and it doesn't look so bad. Whereas playing on a 4k display where I have to lower scaling to 125% it looks really bad.

    Last night I was playing sos and what some of the bushes in the fields beside me looked like cardboard cut-outs. Then on Clinchfield in the autumn, some of the trees, especially with the sunlight beaming through them, also looked like cardboard cut-outs.
     
  47. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    This is why it's best to share screenshots and demo the issue. Everyone has different setups, differen5 settings etc. I run 1080p with 100 percent screen res - out of box settings.

    Matt
     
  48. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately I deleted TSW 2 as soon as TSW 3 was released, so can’t make any comparison shots. Though more recently, it definitely seems like things are looking less sharp than they used to. I believe this unintentional happened in a recent update.

    With the foliage, the ‘pop in’ from low LOD to high LOD and no shadows on it genuinely looks horrendous.

    If you’re playing on vanilla settings, then this most certainly is visible. Particularly when playing during sunrise or sunset, the foliage quite literally glows orange (like it is a light up tree) and just doesn’t look good at all.

    I’ve suggested this before but TSW needs some sort of blueish haze to mask low LOD to high LOD. TSC does this very well, but TSW it quite literally changes LOD right in front of your eyes. It can be very distracting and doesn’t look good at all.

    I don’t know if it’s possible but foliage assets need to slowly transition from low detail to high detail, instead of having set LOD settings which change right in front of you.
     
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  49. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I don't disagree but I want to separate 'always been wrong' from 'got worse or newly bad in tsw3' and its the latter I'm focusing on right now because nothing should have got worse, so either we are misremembering tsw2 or something was inadvertently changed and I can get that fixed easily.

    Then we can worry about longstanding things.
     
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  50. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely not worse for me in TSW3. My money is on people misremembering TSW2, in large part perhaps due to comparing in their minds heavily-modified TSW2 installations (it had so many mods and .ini tweaks by the end of its life) to a comparatively virgin TSW3. I have been looking and do not see a difference. The only difference I have seen and has been confirmed is an issue with distant tree LODs and baked shadows.

    And while all the anecdotes are colourful, we have seen little in the way of evidence to support the claims.

    Cheers
     

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