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Bahnstrecke Riesa-dresden Rant

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Monder, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this is exactly what you'd expect from the title.

    (Just for a bit of context I live fairly close to the route and have spent dozens of hours riding all the branches throughout the year, so yes... you CAN call this too subjective because the route is the closest one to me of the pack both actually and figuratively.)

    DTG... what... are... you... doing??? We are back to last year summer where we had to beat you over the head to get old content to work with the new one. When we succeeded, YOU PROFITED! The content made compatible was used to make many routes a whole lot better (SKA, HMA), provide rolling stock for other routes, to begin with (HHL) and right after release you announced loco DLCs for old routes making them generate even more profit (363 on RSN became a huge success, something not possible if RSN wasn't compatible). Added bonus - you made your community happy.
    upload_2021-7-21_19-36-39.png
    Here we go again. BRD is gutted by removing the two branches that had the potential to easily make it the best TSW route to date. We're back at the generic A-B we've had numerous times. Do you realise the branches provide the most important traffic for the route - the S1 and S2 lines, let alone the variety of services improving the longevity of this particular route? We expected those not to continue south to Pirna/Bad Schöna, but you've promised them to be complete on the other side. And why are they not featured?
    Because of deadlines made by... DTG ITSELF!!!! You do realise people would rather wait for a complete release than get a fraction of it on time? And with no extensions possible we will never see the branches added. All of it because you (probably a bunch of executives on top) want to release it on time rather than finish it. That's why this community is constantly fighting with you - the priorities are upside down. People end up barely sticking to the content of their country because nothing works as intended and the majority of releases are packed with bugs.

    As someone who owns nearly every single DLC, I am getting seriously tired of fighting every lazy shortcut you take. It's instances like these why people are angry with you all the time and some even throw crazy insults your way. It seems pointless trying to explain you would benefit in the long run from doing something 100 % as it always goes back here. How would TSW2 look without TSW2020 content? Having no real big competition you can do whatever because there's nowhere else to go.

    The announcement today was a disaster of its own mostly because you can't communicate stuff properly or have a clear idea of the project. Three huge routes for 30 euros, that was insane to begin with, but you went with it. And seeing pretty much blank routes two months prior to release in their first respective articles implies you can't do any proper testing. So increased price and staggered release make sense, although it could've been predicted from day 1. Cutting the content so insanely and not mentioning it in the update article, that's just an insult to everyone who cares about the IP. A blue shunter will not save this.

    So let's do what we did a year ago ONE... LAST... TIME.

    DTG, take your time, complete the project... even if BRD releases last and maybe even (relax, execs, it will be fine) in Autumn.

    I know one person is not enough to persuade you, but I'm fairly certain this feeling is shared by many just by looking at the thread of today's article. But... let me just speak for myself. I really like the game, buy content from many countries and enjoy a lot of it. If you plan to ahead with this decision...

    I'm out.
     
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  2. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Absoluetly agreed.

    Postpone it until Autumn and get the branches back!
     
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  3. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Thought I’d make a song;

    We are dovetail! We are dovetail!
    Yes, we are the lazy ones!
    Cutting back on routes!
    And increasing prices!

    We are dovetail! We are dovetail!
    Yes, we are the lazy ones!
    We have a history of being lazy!
    Yes this is true!

    We are dovetail! We are dovetail!
    Yes, we are the lazy ones!
    We always take one step forward…
    And two steps backwards!

    etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  4. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Member

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    Fully agreed. I’m absolutely gutted about this announcement. This route had the potential to be special, to be unique, to finally offer a complex and busy experience. DTG keep blaming their self-imposed deadlines; well guess what: you can just extend those, we don’t mind. Especially for the big yearly release. Please get the branches back and delay the route!
     
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  5. dcnine#5410

    dcnine#5410 Well-Known Member

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    I’m going to wait for more responses, but currently 94% of people who have answered my poll want the route to be delayed. Just for a bit of perspective, DTG.
     
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  6. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Agree 100%. It should be postponed and included what was supposed to be there.
     
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  7. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    100% on mine. But I did pose a second option of using the BRD Delay to add London Bridge to Brighton Mainline, so I kinda split the vote. But everyone is unanimous in my thread about wanting branches back.
     
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  8. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    There is no doubt the community has a real, heart felt passion for Train Sim World. We all want it to be the best it can be. Sadly, for whatever reason, DTG doesn’t see things the same way. Content on releasing partial routes for the sake of a meaningless deadline. Surely, someone high up in DTG must be thinking what the true potential could be. I just think of the wasted possibilities if only a bit more time was taken. Such a crying shame.
     
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  9. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Dtg in a nutshell; a company with a game full of missed opportunities
     
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  10. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yes. If they don't include the branches on release, we'll never see them (like the IC cab car).

    Please, please take time and include the branches. This route could be am example of what you can do, please take the oppertunity to listen to the community and make the full route.

    And with those branches it would be such a varied and fun route, without them it's just like the rest, those branches make all the difference.
     
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  11. keksman

    keksman Well-Known Member

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    And imagine people still say dtg doesent want to release a map editor "because they dont want to get sued" lmao who would ever buy their rushed dlcs if modders/actual train enthusiasts would be able to create maps on their own? Bet this dlc is going to be bugged too
     
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  12. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    Imo I doubt the devs or CMs are happy about this and are as frustrated as we are, after all the TSW2 team are mostly rail fans/enthusiasts themselves (if I rightly remember). Something clearly went wrong in the last few weeks or months. I just hope they are able to learn from this and be transparent about it tomorrow. A route was set in stone then cut by 20% along with the increased price and individual releases. Was this all sudden or did they know a lot earlier about the difficulties of delivering the route/package? To be a fly on the wall of DTG!
     
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  13. Cygnific

    Cygnific New Member

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    Can't help but think this was "the plan" to delay the route, they know people will be upset by the cut branches and this gives them the time they need.
     
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  14. Christiaan

    Christiaan Member

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    I too am done with DTG if they don't include these branches. It makes the name RUSH HOUR useless without those... Come on DTG, this was finnaly going to be such a interresting route, why why why would you do this?! Was so looking forward to this route, but not anymore...
     
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  15. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Member

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    DTG are the masters of self imposing restrictions. Everything has to fit very neatly within the 3 months churnout and forget machine. The people (Matt et al) are lovely people and I would never square anything personally at them, especially over the net.

    The preserved collection process should be an absolute minimum and yet it's paraded around as the moon landing. Sorting out bugs and bringing old content up to scratch should be done without asking and little fuss. Improving, adding features, extending route should be the name of the game rather than hopping from one churned out project to another.

    I'd be happy if they didn't release anything new for 12 months and just concentrated on improving stuff. Problem is this wouldn't generate revenue as they've built up the business around banging stuff out every 5 minutes. 4 years in and we're still not being able to make the most of the content. Meanwhile Eagle Dynamics with DCS will spend 2 years improving with DLC, sometimes 3 years after pre-sale. 10 years, later after launch, the 10C got an entirely newly built cockpit for free. Imagine DTG just saying...Alright guys, here's Reading to Didcot and Oxford for free, thanks for being our customers. You'll need to buy the GWE, but most of you already own it, so have it.

    I will not be buying new routes or other DLC until this has been addressed.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  16. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Oh, it will be addressed.

    "We hear your feedback", "We listen to you, but nothing can be done about it",...
     
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  17. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Which is a shame. Rush Hour felt like DTG's chance to redeem itself after not including the IC cab car, HHL and the Rapid Tranis and LIRR fixes (and still can be if they change course and do include the branches), definetely towards German players. This has made us all feel like we're not being listened to again, and unless DTG changes course and does include the branches, it will keep on feeling like that.

    We, as a community, are now giving them a clear chance to show that they are listening to us, and do want to provide us with the content we want. So DTG, take the chance, delay BRD (and rename it to Riesa - Dresden please) and include the branches, then you'll earn most of my trust back, and then you will get me excited for what is coming.
     
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  18. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    Instead I would like to point out the immersion of the headlights. I remember that as the trains appear on the horizon, even on a sunny day, the first thing that points them out to us are the headlights. This also happens on TSW2, where the headlights can only be seen when the train is in front of our nose. If this is not immersion! And I can't even use the console excuse anymore because these images come from an RTX 2080.

    But perhaps with the new immersion of the Rush Hours controls we will no longer notice the front (and rear) headlights that have nothing to do with the term immersive.

    All "distractions" that can occur at launch. The problem is that the TSW series is starting to be almost 4 years old.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  19. thomastl59374

    thomastl59374 Active Member

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    I'm still waiting for any news on additional freight services on Arosa Line that Rivet talked about
     
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  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Bravo bravo. This song may just win in the American Music Awards :)
     
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  21. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well actually almost 5 years old technically
     
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  22. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Personally when I saw the announcement my first thought was “here we go again”.
    My buying habits have really changed over the last year.

    Previously I bought everything no matter what it was. The short deadlines have meant that I’ve left

    Cathcart
    LIRR update
    Iow
    Arosa
    I bought Hamburg lubeck as it was one of your routes and there’s nothing going on there at all

    That’s £100 down from one person because of half baked content .

    People are asking for new skyboxes, new map etc, it’s the same old reasons of time and not currently being worked on.

    I think as a company you need to hand off route development to rivet or skyhook for 6 months and really self analyse and fix old issues, update the blooming map and hit a reset button.

    There’s some hugely talented people in your team and I think you’re impacting your own revenue through letting the accountants or whoever decide when you’re releasing a route.


    I wouldn’t expect a traffic warden to tell a restauranteur when my food is ready to be delivered.

    These short a to b routes need more variety and jazzing up, the routes should be longer and more detailed. I am confident that people will buy them and wait longer. Equally I’m looking at the German trains being released, am I missing something or are these all night on identical. The Uk ones too, there must be something different run those lines surely. I just feel like every route is same issues and same trains, different decor.

    It’s ridiculous that in 2021 I have to go back to train sim to get a decent map or decent routes and scenarios. It’s a ten year old game!
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  23. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    When the pandemic hit I really got back into train sims, having been out for nearly a decade. I bought TSW 2020 and then TSW 2 because I thought it would be the future. And here we are: If I want any content variety, '90s German routes, Dutch routes, Austrian routes, more Swiss routes, a modern ECML or WCML, a '90s ECML or WCML, etc. I have to go back to a game that was already out a few years when I last played Train sims before the pandemic, as a kid nearly a decade ago.
     
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  24. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Personally this doesn't affect me either way as I was always going to Day 1 Rush Hour and tbh I didn't even know which branches were in it to begin with (Combination of not being familiar with the area or following it's development)

    The negative reaction (esp amongst the German rail fan community) is pretty plain to see not just here but elsewhere.

    DTG - You do not do a heel turn often; but I think in this instance a rethink may be in order and it's clear that the majority would rather see this route delayed than release it as planned.
     
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  25. lukereynolds1

    lukereynolds1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm really annoyed by the decision to cut the branch lines. When rush hour was announced, they talked on streams about how this route was decided upon because of the branch lines offering variation and how it was popular in Train Simulator. They have talked so heavily about how they come to decide what route to make, taking everything into account. So what's gone wrong? Without the branch lines, would DTG have decided to make this route in the first place? I expect no! So why do they think it's now a good idea to release it in part?

    What's most annoying is that with the new season ticket and pricing, we cannot show our feelings by not buying this route! As all routes are available to be purchased individually, even if we collectively decided not to purchase this route, the profits wouldn't be dented as the costs would be covered by sales of the other routes.
     
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  26. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Can only agree. For me as a local person living in Dresden and knowing all the lines and branches very well it is heartbreaking to see DTG cutting the Rush Hour part out of a Rush Hour route. The S1 and the S2 really makes the whole part from Dresden to Meißen interesting and vivid. Really sad to see that DTG again misses out what easily could be one of their best-sellers. It feels like Rapid Transit, where they just deliberately decided NOT to model Leipzig HBF which can be seen as a crucible part of the route missing.

    Kind of weird that DTG decides to release a route as a Rush Hour route and cuts away the content being Rush Hour related.
     
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  27. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    I'm agree with you. I can wait up to chrismast too. I can pay the standard price for this route too (30€). But, i want it as it was planned at the beginning. This one could be the best german route so far, and DTG you can't destroy up to 33% of the project just for a "deadline". Take your time. All the time that you need but let's make a good job for this one
     
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  28. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    In terms of Dresden this route is dead. The vital part of the train traffic is now not included and I really ask myself why? Cut out the Großenhain-branch and put the S-Bahn branches instead.
     
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  29. Hidden Donkey

    Hidden Donkey Active Member

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    its only 20% a lot less than you said
     
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  30. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    After what I just read, I'm starting to worry. Another attempt to redefine the compromise. Not nice, not nice, DTG.
     
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  31. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Despite it only being 20% it's 20km.

    And it kills a lot of variety & life from the route.
     
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  32. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that DTG announced too much at first. If the announced Dresden-Riesa only as a main line without any branches, it would be fine.

    But cutting out content because of deadlines they are unwilling to move is just lame. And I get the feeling that the community is getting really tired of it.

    Why are you backslapping us all over and over DTG? You want too much at one time. Just... slow down and set up the deadlines in a way its realistic that you can get the content out as announced FIRST HAND.
     
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  33. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    I'm not talking about route lenght. 2 branches more doesn't mean just 23km more, but means also a large number of service, more variety for rolling stock, more traffic, more "rush hour" situations and a better life for the route atmosphere. We are not making a suggestion, we just ask for what they promised to us. We can wait and get the route that they promised. Not just another german route A-B with nothing special, and i love german routes. And as soon as i will see them, i still dubt about br101 and ice3 layers on it.

    Ps. For exemple the best german route with a "good" traffic is the HRR. And it is just a bit longer than 23km that they cut off
    Ps.
     
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  34. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    Any of you realised, that maybe, just maybe the reason why it was reduce might be some outside from DTG event, something they can not, or could not control, they may have tried to preserve it like it was announce, but in the due what ever event outside the control of DTG, they are now force to reduce the trackage. A possibility that I see, could be something doing with licensing agreement

    It is speculation on my part, however it is possible, that it may not be DTG own doing, but an external event
     
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  35. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    They have the VVO license and they have a license agreement, otherwise they wouldnt have announced the route the way they did on the first place. They cut out the branches because of a deadline. I believe they would have communicated it as a legal problem if it would be a legal problem but they didnt.

    DTG fucked this up, their reputation will suffer, especially within the german railfan community which is a big customer base.

    Nobody here would be angry if they just have said "We delay the release of Rush Hour into autumn (or winter) so we can deliver on what we promised and announced." We would have accepted that as we accepted the Delay of the TSW 2 Release last year because of Preserved Collection.
     
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  36. dtcblock#5625

    dtcblock#5625 New Member

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    DTG, why set deadlines for yourselves if you can’t even meet them?

    So far Rush Hour seems to be living up to its name.
     
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  37. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    We can only go off what they have told us so far....and that is it was purely down to a time constraint. If there were other issues at play; we *may* get told in tomorrow's stream; but I doubt it was anything other than them wanting to get all 3 routes out in the summer window and knowing they don't have enough time to get the extra branches onto the route. Obviously a misjudgement at the start on how much time it would require.
     
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  38. sjjones98

    sjjones98 New Member

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    Is it possible that with the two extra branches there are so many services that they cannot function correctly on the last gen. consoles? They do not want a problem similar to the layer issues on Munich-Augsburg again.
     
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  39. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    It might be that this also plays into it BUT: The timetables are publicly availabe so they could have seen how many traffic there is irl. So they could have made the decision to cut out the branches before announcing it.
     
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  40. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    Only DTG would find someway to increase the price and simultaneously remove content. Sad part is that people will probably still buy it regardless, so there's no incentive to ever change these practices.
     
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  41. thatleedsguy#8590

    thatleedsguy#8590 Active Member

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    Hope they put the branches back in. I'm not buying this one regardless, but all the power to those who are wanting this one to succeed.

    It would be beneficial for them to delay it until Autumn. Does mean a longer wait, but at least it'd be done properly after said wait.
    Could be that. Hopefully we get an answer. Transparency is important...and seems to be sorely lacking in game development, imo.

    I think I'll take this opportunity to say: The more s**t you throw, the more you get thrown back at you.
    Insulting the people who you're relying on to see and listen to your thoughts is probably worse than sitting there, twiddling your thumbs.

    Yes, give criticism. But what you're doing is taking jabs at a company who, no offence, won't listen to abuse and won't be losing sleep over your attempt at musical entertainment.

    You have the right to an opinion, but you're painting the wrong picture, here. When DTG sees abuse mixed in with these valid complaints, they'll see it as an attack rather than a plea for better content. Then they're much less likely to listen to you.

    DTG isn't getting a pass from me cos they obviously have problems to fix. But I'm not going to insult them cos it doesn't work.

    Next time you want help in a hospital, go call the surgeon a lazy b***ard and kick him in the nuts. Then see if they'll treat your problem.
     
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  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ice 3s don't even run on brd in real life. The DB BR 411 ICE T does so I wouldn't be disappointed if the ICE3 wasn't added since that isn't realistic
     
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  43. hypospray

    hypospray Member

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    Just waiting for another " We have heard your valuable feedback... but sorry " official statement.
    I hope im wrong though.
     
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  44. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, wonder how that will play out with the rest of the community!
     
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  45. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    I applaud your moral stance but is that not what DTG are also doing?
    The only differerence being that one is sarcasm and the other is for real.
     
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  46. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    13% is not alot less 40% is alot less.
     
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  47. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’m far from the expertise of others here but this is what I recollect.

    1. iow. Issues with route, Rivet have still not fixed.
    2. Bakerloo, fixed but we can’t find a release window.
    3. Arosa,poor scenery, we chose frame rate over distant detail
    4. Freight exchange, nearly a year to fix, still not released.
    5. Hamburg, badged as busy line, it’s dead and has wrong dostos as didn’t have time to make new ones.
    6. Cathcart, was looking forward to this, badged as busy route, Glasgow station dead
    7. Cane creek, wrong wagons, recycled sounds.

    Theres a clear pattern here and they have acknowledged issues, appreciate it may be a growing team or tight deadlines but somewhere along line it has to change.

    Is Train sim 21 still making too much money to bring resource over to tsw2?

    I personally think the above needs sorting. It’s great that they’ve been brave enough to delay but deliver what was promised rather than delay and reduce size. How many times do we read people put they want bigger-routes and new trains.

    I was looking at the London toBrighton ones and to the untrained eye they look almost same as East Coastway and SEHS. I know our trains are much a muchness but there’s new trains that could be used like the azumas for example that I guess run south of London too.
     
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  48. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    What they ended up doing is replicating the sister game Train simulator 21 version without S2 to Flughafen Dresden Klotzsche and S1 to Meißen. What DTG could have done was include the S2 line Flughafen Dresden Klotzsche and S1 to Meißen just like the original plan to make it the longest route in TSW 2 105 km 65mi. Because their goal was to make longer routes possible by increasing length.
     
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  49. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    If that’s the case, fair enough. But DTG has said time is the issue and not wanting to overstretch themselves.
     
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  50. Task

    Task Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I‘m also very disappointed that the branches were cut. There are two big problems with that: First the missing branches make the route rather boring as the branches were what made the route exciting in the first place. Especially as it doesn’t include any new rolling stock.
    Second: When we don’t get the branches with this route we will very likely never get them. Where can you include them if not here?

    Another smaller thing: The 143 is included in the route but now that the S2 branch is cut the service length for 143 run trains is only 8 minutes long. A bit pointless to include a loco for that if you ask me.

    Also why only „punish“ the German players while even extending the content of the British route? Doesn’t sound fair to me…

    I would really hope that you at least include the S1 branch again. Delay the route if you want. Or add the branches afterwards as a free update or for a small price (although I guess you don’t have the tech right now to make paid expansions?).
     
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