Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by raildan, Aug 16, 2018.
Oh whats this:
I must confess, I was not expecting that. Happy to see wheel-slip, that is dynamic based on track conditions, and dynamic weathering. I don't want to sound dissapointed, but I was rather looking forward to a more exciting British route, however the Bakerloo line is certainley going to be interesting, and now there will be a high speed ICE route, which is very much welcome.
I am slightly worried to whether this would become a trend of just re-releasing the game like what they seem to be doing with their fishing games - but I appreciate the boldness. I also like the fact they may be releasing a content roadmap a week before release.
Ok, so they don't say anything about the German route except that you "Feel the thrill of high-speed inter-city German rail as you push the throttle and climb speeds in the famous DB ICE 3M out of Köln." They don't actually say what route it is. However, I have a feeling I know what it is- the Köln - Aachen railway was one of the options in the old November Survey thing a few years ago. This was my speculation and thoughts on it then:
EDIT: Ok, actually they DO specifically say what route it is and I just didn't see that part :P
"Experience German High Speed for the first time with the Köln Schnellfahrstrecke route driving the DB BR 406 ICE 3 and DB BR 442 ‘Talent 2’."
So it looks like we aren't getting freight on it, but it sounds like it's probably Köln - Aachen
Hopefully freight can be driven on it too as the announcement only mentions ICE 3 and Talent 2.
I know for a fact that getting London Underground to agree to have third parties use their logos, sounds etc is notoriously difficult so props to DTG for achieving that.
it is Koln-Aachen
Koln-Aachan is almost 50 miles, so on the high speed line, it would be a fair run.
This is the kind of injection TSW needed, not that blip that was TSW2020. More commentary on what DTG has been doing and content we've been asking for. Kudos!
I wonder when it will be available for preorder. Cannot wait. Day one purchase for me and with dynamic weather seems amazing
I wonder if there will be extra services on the Köln Schnellfahrstrecke if you have MSB, like with previous German DLC? Both the BR 146 and BR 185 make sense operating on the route. And on a more fundamental level, will TSW2020 DLC still be available TO BUY for TSW2?
Well, i have to say i'm pretty excited about this announcement.
I play on Xbox and am a big US Freight fan so having Sand Patch finally available on console is huge for me. I may have just missed it, but the 14 new services for it will be on console as well, right?
The Bakerloo and Koln-Aachen routes sound quite good as well, with each featuring a new type of gameplay (metro, high-speed).
Adhesion, dynamic weather, custom liveries (can't wait to see the screenshots you artistic types come up with), and scenario editor all sound great. Hope the scenario editor is easy to use since sharing isn't supported.
My only disappointment is no commitment to upgrading existing TSW2020 content for TSW2. I understand it would probably be a ton of work, but the inclusion of Sand Patch shows it IS possible- unless that was completely rebuilt frim scratch?
I hope DTG realizes that charging for "upgraded" versions down the road might be received poorly by the community. I think they should consider this issue very carefully, and come up with something that's respectful to their existing customers. The development roadmap should provide more clarity.
So, presumably the upcoming CL20 will be the final TSW2020 DLC?
I would still buy TSW2020(UE4 4.16v)DLCs if they are route extensions for what se already have there. Maybe 3rd parties Will be selling addons with TSW2020 tools.
This new game is the perfect excuse to not upgrade all routes and stuff... But to be honest this might be a monumental task to do. So, hope they learn from they mistakes...
Well, my hype is still there, althought i have some mixed fellings, this is good news, UE4 update was a must.
I was right about CSX
Well it certainly wasn't a damp squid of an announcement. Seems very positive and I think shows commitment by DTG to develop TSW. Good to see a lot of points raised here answered or at least touched upon in the FAQ's. The scenario planner sounds exciting.
I will certainly look forward to the German ICE, the Bakerloo line is an interesting choice, personally I am not as excited about that but I am sure it will be very good and fun to drive on. It sounds like it was a popular choice.
All of them where
People wanted ICE
Some Console users wanted CSX to one day be on console
And people wanted the underground
I would have preferred the Central line or the Sub Surface lines but I hope they add it in the future
I agree but it doesn't seem to have gone down well with some people: https://steamcommunity.com/app/530070/discussions/0/2298472007804691248/?ctp=2
The Steam posts raise some great points though, could this be the future of TS/TSW, with having to pay annually to stay current with content?
This is a great way to pump in cash, sell new features and routes as a 'new version' of the game, but if you want any future content, then you'll have to buy this new version regardless of your interests in the content featured in the base game. This goes against the whole concept of picking and choosing your collection, because now you gotta buy things you might not want to have content you do.
It's cool, I'm excited for this content, but I'm concerned about what this might turn into...
I have already asked someone else this.... but I just thought I'd float the question again....
Would you be okay with it all....... if you got a free copy of TSW 2 as an empty "shell" with no DLC content at all - and then leave that empty shell on your system until you have found some TSW 2 DLC that you want....?
Or... maybe... have a "free copy" of the new TSW 2 shell delivered to you for free, only if and when you buy a TSW 2 DLC....? So the purchasing platform would see you have TSW, but no TSW 2.... and when you buy the TSW 2 DLC, you'd get the TSW 2 UI bundled in at that point.....?
Imagine you being a 3rd party developer - Why would you use an older, more limiting version rather than the new one?
Would you rather pay 2x 29.99 (maybe 29.99 + 22.99) for each new route though? Or 3x 29.99 if you're on console? I wonder if this is going to turn into an annual thing as well though.
Some Interesting comments on steam locomotives in the FAQ of the official announcement of Train Sim World 2, which must be the most we've heard from DTG regarding steam in TSW so far, being mentioned multiple times throughout the FAQ, specifically:
"Train Sim World 2 includes high speed and longer freight for the first time, and sets our future sights on Steam Engines, Multiplayer and more."
"add new features and capabilities for more types of train simulation such as High Speed, long freight, and in the future Steam Engines, Multiplayer and more."
Really exciting as it confirms there will eventually be steam. Also, this comment:
"Steam locos will need another engine upgrade to make sure that particle effects do justice to performance and visuals, as well as a bespoke SimuGraph® upgrade to handle the unique experience of steam locos."
This suggests the first time we will see steam will perhaps be in an engine update in August 2021, probably launching as a flagship route. Between now and then I wouldn't be surprised if we see a British route based on ECML or WCML with an improved class 43 HST alongside other rolling stock given the mention of "and high speed – a key focus for this year".
Well, agree on that... but if DTG give them this only posibility... maybe i just wanted to express some concern in what is going to happen to TSW2020 routes. Now i realize extensions are not gona be a possibility.
Well I suppose you can't please everyone. Maybe this was the only way to move the sim forward, start again almost.
Some of the comments on there do raise some valid concerns, others judging by the tone of their comments and language used like scam, money grabbing etc (which is when I tend to switch off) probably are looking for something to get angry about. Plus the old favourite comment, "DTG are forcing us to pay for the game again", no they're not you have your own mind and can make your own decisions how you spend your money!
I personally would have liked to see more development of NTP, TVL and GWE but it will be interesting to see what the future holds.
...y'know, it would be intereating to see a "Watford DC line" mini route extension / loco DLC somewhere in the future for the Bakerloo line. Just sayin'.... would be an interesting way of doing things.
Just extending the line to Watford and Euston and adding the class 378 or 710 (whichever actually runs on the line now or whenever it's modelled)
And... yes, I'm already speculating about DLC like this. The idea just crossed my head, ok?
It’d be great if they build upon the Bakerloo line and take advantage of the WCML with its sprawling Wembley and Willesden yards in the future.
The line in and out of London Euston would be very popular amongst players I’d like to think.
But this isn't starting over. If this was starting over, why would previous routes be compatible? Compatibility means some shared engine components behind the scenes, if not an entirely shared back end.
To prevent a double post, I wanted to add some additional thoughts overall. Given this is the baseless speculation thread, I speculate part of the reason for this update is to shed much of the bad reviews and history that has come with TSW. To the outsider, TSW2 seems new and improved, but deep down inside it's just an update to TSW. Cities XL comes to mind and the mess that was, new versions of the same content without the core fixes and improvements needed to make it actually playable.
For anyone though that gets switched off or turns away from criticism and use of the word scam for the idea of paying for bug fixes, think of it this way. The reality is that it ends up creating a sense of hope that the problems a player has with a game is fixed with purchasing a new version of the game, when that game will contain much of the same content and issues held in the previous version. It tells management that they can profit off large fixes instead of releasing them for free.
We also lost faith in the capability of DTG to be honest with us about the future of the game. Features that were promised to be in TSW will not be in TSW. The idea of investing in a future capability that is not delivered hurts trust. They could say this is a 'one time thing' and we might buy it, but realistically this is not. That's the concern.
TS20xx featured many unique updates to the core base game over the years, always for free. This is a change from that mentality to make money.
I wouldn't turn away from criticism, although I am just a customer not the producer so I don't have to turn towards or away from it. Use of emotive and angry language like "scam", "rip off" etc are not conducive to a well argued point.
I know as much about producing a simulator as I do about Quantum Physics (which is nothing) but maybe this was the only way to move the sim forward.
It is obvious from forums that many people wanted DTG to do something and this is it.
My personal view is that for all practical purposes it is absolutely necessary to make substantial future "mini" evolutions of the TSW product, in order to benefit from experience, and to exploit future technology such as revised UE4/UE5.... and the latest PC/PS/XBox architecture/power (maybe in TSW 3....).
For me..... TSW 2... as presented yesterday.... is absolutely right on track. TSW 2 is TSW. They are clearly investing in future capability - and they are starting to deliver the features that they...um... previously aspired to provide. They have also retained backward compatibility (although I suspect that this really amounts to just having a core for TSW sitting alongside the core for TSW 2...).
But you are right about original TSW content. All of the bugs in existing TSW content must get fixed. They should have been eradicated before release through competent testing... or indeed any pre-release testing at all. They should have been fixed when they were repeatedly reported by the first adopters.... It is disgusting that there are still major bugs with flagship DLC like NTP.... for example.... the utterly disastrous Class 47 power curve (but only on consoles....).... now nearly two years old as a critical "must fix now" bug.
And if a "back catalogue" approach to selling "original" TSW DLC is adopted (as without any doubt it will be) - then those DLCs must continue to be supported (to the TSW specification)... if they continue to be on sale.... They should have been functional upon release...! So I think it would be very helpful if DTG could now make it clear that they will do this... not to suggest that such DLC will be "upgraded" to the new spec... just made fit for purpose by meeting the "original TSW" spec.... Now would be good.
Of course, some people would want current DLC to be upgraded. This isn't going to happen right now - but the one positive is that DTG has been clear that this isn't going to happen right now. So you know where you stand on that point. I also personally think that this is the right path towards a greater long-term objective.... and that these assets will re-appear ten years later in a further massive evolution in the Train Simulator genre. It might take that long before you see complete "upgraded" ECML and WCML routes sold for the price of a single 40-mile DLC now..... Maybe... ;-)
I think we can all agree that I got the closest guess in before the announcement and the thread title turned out to be “TSW2 question(s)” and what excellent questions they have been so far. We’re going to need a big pad and pen ready for the stream tomorrow and I can’t wait for the answers. It’s all very exciting.
Since there is TSW2 could it be possible they make a 2019 GWE that people wanted?
Since all ur TSW dlc that u own will be transferred over to TSW 2, I doubt DTG would create a modern version of gwe for the same reason, since we all already own the base route it’ll just be transferred over, but I do hope one day they could at least “rebuild” the route, kinda like what they did for sand patch on consoles, to make the modern version of gwe, but, again, I doubt it’ll happen.
I guess we won't need this thread anymore....
Not so fast... it isn't a week before release yet
Heh, but in all seriousness I sure hope so. This thread was an unnecessary mess from the very beginning
So for the first time DTG gonna tell us what routes and locos they’re gonna release during the whole year? Wow, never expected that. Well at least we’ll know what to expect, but then again, it’s like spoiling a movie or book, which is what DTG is doing, taking away the hype, excitement, and wonder of any new dlc coming for TSW in the next few months.
Id get more excitement out of knowing TBH. nothing worse than waiting months for a new route only to find out its something you have 0 interest in.
I agree, it’ll be nice to plan our money out for the dlc DTG have forthcoming.
Baseless speculation: At least half of the community thought they were pro freight train drivers until they added adhesion physics.
I’d just like to know when they are going to add some BR electrics like a 86, the WCML being the stand out route for me
I want to know when they are going to release the entire British Railways network circa 1962 from Penzance to Wick with suitable traction!
You'll have to wait for TSW 2021 for that one.
As in, the 2021st game in the series, after TSW 3, 4, etc.
If you want the Isle of Wight, you're out of luck
Wonder if this will be on pre order
Hopefully, Im also wondering if the disc version comes out at the same time.
I will be really interested if it really makes driving Sand Patch Grade or any other route a challenge, or it's just gonna be something that barely makes a difference 1% of the time.
It makes a difference on TVL right now. It's not properly done on TVL, but there is wheelslip with the Class 37 and loaded steel trains. You can actually get a "TSW style" wheelslip with the Class 66, the Class 09 and the Class 47 as well. But this "wheelslip" does not depend on weather..... and only occurs if you drive especially poorly.....
I am hoping that TSW 2 will have wheelslip that interacts with season and weather, and requires controlled power input to overcome.... so:
Winter: slip on Ice (including level gradients) and sliding under brakes
Autumn: sliding under aggressive braking (leaves on line)
Rain: wetness causing slip on steep inclines
Dry - good conditions
More broadly - if the simulation requires you to manage momentum on the approach to red lights (where you will not want to stop... but where creeping to avoid starting from stand-still is an actual skilled driving strategy.....).... then that would be awesome.
If all of the above has been carefully tested, and is coupled with a meaningful points system (like on TS1).... then the replayability will shoot up... and coupled with the new.... um.... Quick Drive feature... I mean... Scenario Planner... you'd have a substantial new feature overall.
Yeah at the moment wheelslip conditions have to be preloaded into a route 1st. Based on if a train is deemed heavy or not.
Taken from the TSW2 announcement article.
“What is the Adhesion feature?
Adhesion physics brings wheelslip and wheelslide to Train Sim World 2 depending on rail conditions and driver technique. Feel the slip of wheels in adverse weather, master moving heavy freight and keep control of your loco power on steep inclines!”.
It looks like weather will factor into driving. I can’t wait to drive my first service on Sandpatch. I especially can’t wait now that we will have adhesion physics!
Okay - imagine if you have two versions of a scenario, say a freight scenario from point A to point B. If one of them is in a wintry blizzard, and the other is on a dry sunny day... then I would expect the "AP points" required for gold medal/star/etc. to be different in each version of the scenario.
The key will be whether or not there is a detectable difference. Wlll they require different levels of skill/attention....? The difficult bit is communicating to the player that the situations are substantively different.... one of the best ways of doing this would be to have a more comprehensive scoring system... (like the one in TS1). Will wheelslip get penalised...?
If you can just always get a gold trophy in one set of scenarios, and a bronze trophy is always the maximum available in another set of scenarios... then the inclusion of simulation elements like wheelslip becomes a bit pointless. It is interesting for its own sake, of course, but if it doesn't challenge you then ultimately it will have no immersive quality, and it would just be a visual thing that you won't see much of anyway. Like right now with TSW.
It will be interesting to see what they have implemented.
Some of the scenarios in Sand Patch are gonna just be REALLY difficult now... I can't wait to try them out!
In fact, that's something interesting about all of these routes- they are all 3 extremely challenging in their own different way, and I suspect this is intentional. Sand Patch Grade has the difficulty of keeping control of long, heavy freight on a steep grade, Köln Schnellfahrstrecke has the challenge of paying attention to advanced signalling systems (assuming LZB is modeled, which I HOPE it is), and the Bakerloo line has the challenge of stopping precisely on a very tight schedule with short distances between stations.
All 3 provide challenges in different areas, but it's also worth noting that the routes provided allow for lower difficulty in these 3 areas. For Sand Patch Grade, you can drive in dry weather with a shorter train, or... just do some switching. With Köln Schnellfahrstrecke you can turn safety systems off and ave a more relaxing drive, or maybe just LZB (leaving PZB on). For the Bakerloo line... well, I guess there's not a lot of options for a less tight schedule, but less tight passenger services ARE provided back on the German route with the Talent 2.
And, of course, all 3 routes represent some of the most famous rail operations of the country they're in- the US is known (among train people at least) for its heavy freight, the ICE is the flagship of modern German railways, and the London Underground is quite possibly one of the most well-known rail systems in the WORLD, much less just the UK.
Overall, it's a very carefully chosen set of 3 routes!
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