Beginner's Question: How To Maintain A Speed Just Under The Speed Limit?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mdegroot02, Aug 30, 2024.

  1. mdegroot02

    mdegroot02 New Member

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    Hello, I am doing quick drives and I am having trouble with maintaining a speed under the speed limit.
    When the brake is fully released (0 %) ( the top brake of the 3 brakes in the HUD) the speed keeps going up so that I eventually exceed the limit, and get the waring message SPEEDING. But when I apply the brake the speed keeps going down, first under the speed limit, but then it keeps going down further. If I then want to increase the speed I release the brake (0%) but then the speed goes up and exceeds the speed limit agian. This way I am constantly busy with getting te speed just under the speed limit and I cannot enjoy the scenery.
    I sure hope there is a better way to maintain a certain speed, say a few km/h under the speed limit. I appreciate any help other members can give me.
     
  2. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    The brakes are a crude way to control speed. Adjust the throttle/power controller instead. Use the HUD to see the gradients in front so you can anticipate whether you will naturally be slowing down or speeding up.

    Some modern locos have cruise control. Look in their manuals for details.

    The break pressure indicator/gauges show how hard the brakes are applied. With practice you'll learn how to partially apply them, which will give you finer control.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2024
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  3. Spikee1975

    Spikee1975 Guest

    First choice is dynamic brakes for keeping speed, use airbrakes only if necessary.

    Of course, all depends on your type of train and traction.

    On older stock like hauling a Class 37 freight train over the hills, I'm often using an amount of direct brakes to control the speed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2024
  4. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the train.
    Sometimes you have to keep flip-flopping, same applies to uphill with notched trains (like the SD40).
    By the way, dynamic brakes are also notched so chances are you'd be flip-flopping, too.

    Important to note that the oldest brake system, which is actually the best to drive once experienced, is...
    Well, the simpleton brake systems are so-called self-lapped. You apply 48% and you get certain brake effort (say, 48%).
    The basic one has a cylinder with basically Release, Hold (Lap) and Apply. Most typical example is the EMD F7 (and most steam). Here if you set brakes to 50% that's a moderately open Apply position that keeps applying brakes. You should keep moving the handle back to Hold (around 30% usually, but it says so somewhere on the HUD). Also, you can just Apply a little and keep glancing at the speedo and Hold once stabilized speed.

    Content is generally designed around this, with a few notable exceptions that you should return once you are experienced - it can take a year or two to really get comfortable and knowledgeable with various train types.
    Sometimes physics is off to help (the train drags badly, or the brake effort curve is weird). Sometimes you can't run out of air, so just keep flip-flopping brakes. Using keyboard can be way more precise. Also expert controls, basic tends to be too basic.

    If you give a specific example (route, even better if you show the location, plus the train), we might be able to tell you how we do it.

    German / Austrian trains (and many British MUs, steam and other vacuum stock) generally allow partial brake release, so you might find those suitable.
    The basic Westinghouse system doesn't, used by US freight and lots of UK stock as well. The aim there is to brake just as much as necessary. On sawtooth descents like Donner Pass, there are trains with which I always stop on the flat section (or almost).

    If you are driving scripted US trains, do not change brake difficulty for now. Generally, Medium is about realistic, but most activities are designed around your ability to ignore physics using Easy. Plus, don't do what I did, try to master it and then end up hating it with a passion, only to watch Youtube videos realizing that US trains aren't as crippled as a few TSC people make them be.
     
  5. steve.cunningham1980

    steve.cunningham1980 Active Member

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    Just to go back to first principles, if your speed is increasing as soon as you release the brakes (and assuming you are not on a significant downward gradient) then it sounds like you have power applied.
    You should only use the throttle/regulator to accelerate to the desired running speed and then either shut it off or reduce it to a low application. The actual level necessary will vary from train to train.
     
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  6. Bekns

    Bekns Active Member

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    Can anyone confirm that dynamic brakes in the US are notched in real life, we use the same control stands here in AUS but dynamic brake does not have notches which makes fine tuning so much easier.

    Curious as to whether this is the case or not
     
  7. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    If you are asking to validate what I said :)
    A lot of locos have a switch between power and dynamic braking, and you just use the 0-8 setting. GP35
    Others have separate handles or, especially "these days" (say the SD70) combined linear with neutral in the middle.
    I'm not sure dynamic needs to be notched, might merely be a matter of "because we do things with 8 notches". Same about power these days.
    upload_2024-8-31_8-30-46.png
     
  8. Bekns

    Bekns Active Member

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    Nah not what you said specifically, I know that a lot of the US locos in TS are notched for DB but my experience with similar control stands is that the DB isnt notched but maybe that is just something peculiar to the locos I have operated.

    The control stands look identical even having the notch numbers but the DB lever isnt notched so you can stop it anywhere throughout the range, its a smooth movement through the range as opposed to the throttle which clicks into each of the 8 positions and I was just curious if it was the same in the US but it doesnt look like it by the sounds of it.
     
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  9. operator#7940

    operator#7940 Well-Known Member

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    It's a lot like a car really.
    Do you drive a car?
    (I ask because there's a LOT of people who don't these days)
    If you are accelerating as soon as you let off the brake, then you are either going downhill or your throttle is on too high.
    In most cases to "cruise" you need VERY little throttle since trains are ridiculously low on drag/friction.
    You can cruise for a while with the throttle off, or even on 10-15%.
    Only hills are going to slow you down much (or speed you up if going down them)
    Throttle shouldn't be on very much at all if you're trying to drive the speed limit.
     

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