Birminham Cross-city: Timetable Deep Dive | Pre-order | Release Day Update

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Alex, Nov 8, 2022.

  1. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    I guess they don't have XC license
    Is two days really going to be enough time to fix the issues you have raised. Don't think it was right to move the live stream. It's supposed to be a Dev build afterall.
    Well by previous dlcs there's very minimal loco dlcs.
     
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  2. DigiTMCN

    DigiTMCN Member

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    Appreciate the extra layers, however again this DLC route falls into an issue with PS5 TSW3 users until the Addon Manager is released. With the delaly on this it really sounds like there are serious issues with this system. So would have preferred downloading 1 massive TSW3 with all DLC in it and then it checks your licence for which DLCs are purchased.

    A different question, when the GWR and NTP locos are in do they use the new headlight lighting? Not certain if headlight lighting is a core route thing or a loco thing? Hope this question makes sense.
     
  3. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    seems to be more of a loco thing otherwise every headlight would change, it would also be necessary to implement real life variations.

    they also won’t change the same way if you put the class 43 onto something like SEHS updated with scenario planner, you will still get the same mechanics and lighting as when it’s on the GWE.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
  4. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to the timetable team, this is as good as you could do with the available stock - and better than I'd expected. Hopefully we'll see some additional stock in future though to really bring New Street to life.
     
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  5. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    unless they do something else with BCC, I wouldn’t say it was a definite that they do that, basing of track record.
     
  6. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    Could have provided a reskinned XC HST on an hourly service (south/north), seen as that would provide more layers and would cover the shortfall of the services that run the south part of the mainline. The HST is there and soon will be livery designer compatible.
     
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  7. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Not if they don't have the license from Cross Country
     
  8. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    So I take it that this is not on the list?
     
  9. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Very impressive and for the Class 66 Lickey Incline bankers do they have a depot to run from or not?
     
  10. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    It'll be shown on the preview stream, don't worry.
     
  11. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Yes the timetable is very promising, even without the depot.
    Im also willing to pay more for a route, but for sure not for cutted content.

    Maybe we get a dev response, if its just the angle of view with the missing platform rain effects.

    But in my opinon tsw2 to tsw3 was just a big update in visual effects, not enough improvements for a jump in the franchise.
    Well its released now, advertised with shiny clouds and improved rain effects, snow etc.

    So now we go back to tsw2 standard with releasing routes without the big advertised effects?

    If this is the case, its just a shambolic performance..., also if the route was in development together with tsw3, there is no reason to be lazy here.
     
  12. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    The Starter Pack is the same price as those available for German starter pack (Kassel + Core), US (Cajon + Core), and UK (SEHS + Core) (i.e. one route + Core game).

    When you purchased TSW3 (assuming you purchased Standard/Deluxe Edition), you'd have received the other two/three routes for the additional cost.
     
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  13. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I'd be lucky to get 70 miles out of £30 worth of VPower so the route looks even better value for money from where I'm sitting! :D

    It's always got to start somewhere. Whichever service hits New Street first will have the same problem. Imagine pulling in on a Voyager and not seeing an orange 323 on the far platforms.

    The XC services only stop at New Street and University within the route so it would mostly be an AI service anyway. The Bristol trains are due to stop at Bromsgrove from next year, but none do currently so hopefully extra layers will come if they do ever get the correct license for them to do an XC route.
     
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  14. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Spoken to the team, and some answers to your questions.

    In reality the banking locomotive just sits in a siding beyond Bromsgrove station. but in-game there are no banking operations, the wagons we have in-game do not have the capabilities to transmit the necessary information between locos to permit banking, so all you end up doing is hauling an extra 130 tons of dead weight, stalling, and having a bit of a rubbish time.

    The presence of GWR on this line are more special than any regular XC service, we have represented out-of-service maintenance moves with unique formations.

    The WCML AI traffic is freight at Lichfield Trent Valley and is only occasional. There's little opportunity to add more with our current rolling stock.

    Within as much reason as possible, timetables need to be realistic. We wouldn't use a HST in the wrong livery to represent a regular service all day as even with livery designer soon to be available on the HST, the GWR livery will still appear even with custom liveries created or installed, and that's not prototypical. The GWR HST services that are present are realistic for 2019, this is a move that happened regularly

    And some additional commentary based on the discussion so far:

    Having spoken to the team, I want to express that a timetable is more than a number, just because it's not the 500+ services of SEH or the 1400+ of Brighton Main Line, it doesn't mean the experience is lacking, this is the full timetable for the line we have represented, using the train we have developed which runs on that line.

    It is worth noting that we do not currently have the XC license, hence we didn't include the HST. There are details here: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-simulator/articles/article/xc-product-announcement
     
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  15. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Personally I’m happy with the price (assuming it’s the same on Xbox) as am playing it on Game Pass at the moment and can therefore buy the base game for no extra cost. I expected the starter pack to be slightly more. I can see why people who bought the game originally are a tad miffed though.
     
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  16. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    There is no DPU style link between the banking loco and the train engine. The driver on the rear simply applies power when the train starts to move, then at the top of the bank operates the uncoupler to detach. Not sure how you could do that and reflect the operation accurately.
     
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  17. Mattty May

    Mattty May Well-Known Member

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    Shock horror. DTG has to make money to survive! No doubt their staff have had some form of pay rise or bonus owing to the cost of living. Arriva bus drivers in the North West & Wales got an 11.1% raise this year due to inflation - I would expect similar at DTG. Without inflation as a factor, DTG can charge whatever it considers reasonable for its content. We either buy the content at that price or we don’t.
     
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  18. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Yes there's one that sits in the siding at Bromsgrove or they run to and from Bescot Yard, which is not modelled.

    I just spent the last hour writing a lengthy forum post about my thoughts on BCC and I thought sod it, and deleted it.
    I'm not going to prattle on like most people for the whys and why nots on buying the route and if the price is correct or they should have had a certain livery on a loco.... I'll let the forum princesses do that. For me personally I'm going to buy it and bloody enjoy it. I'm currently unemployed and now classed as an unpaid carer for my mum 24 hours a day, I get no help from my family what so ever in caring its just me, not 9 - 5 but 0000 - 2359 day after day. So I am going to buy this route at £30 and enjoy the hell out of it..... why because currently anything is better at the mo than doing what I am currently doing. While you are all arguing over the cost, why a livery isn't included , no depot, the length of the route, the colour of the snowflakes, the amount of services or whatever. Just think it could be worse!

    Hentis
     
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  19. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    What is WCML?
     
  20. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    And then you said the last bit "You either buy it or you don't". That sort of attitude would suggest that they don't care about being paid for the work, then subsequently they will be out of pocket (leading to a loss of jobs) because people will just wait for a sale or turn their backs on the company and so on..
     
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  21. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    West coast Mainline

    The line that runs from Euston - Glasgow in the UK.

    Hentis
     
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  22. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Well-Known Member

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    I was ready to increase the cost of DLC, and I am always ready to pay for good work, especially since the price of DLC in my region is lower than in Europe. But the latest price increase raises questions for me.

    For TSW 2, the total price of the DLC was: for the route 379₴; for a locomotive 279₴ (until September 2022).

    The price of three new TSW3 routes was announced at ₴479 (09/06/2022), an increase of +25%.

    The price of the BCC route is set at 740₴, an increase in relation to the cost of the DLC for TSW3 + 55%; in relation to DLC for TSW2 + 95% (almost 2 times).

    Another question - why is the cost of a starter package with BCC at the same price as a separate DLC BCC - 740₴? On the day of the release of TSW3, a starter package with a regional route cost more than such a regional route.

    I have already pre-ordered the route and I am sure that I will not regret my purchase. But the issue of pricing policy left an unpleasant aftertaste.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2022
  23. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    An unpleasant aftertaste that will not be resolved, all you’ve done is prove to DTG that they can sell you DLC at twice the cost.
     
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  24. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Everyone's circumstances are different. I work Monday - Thursday, 50/50 hybrid working. When I'm in the office I'll get to my desk at around 3am and won't leave until 2/3pm. When I get home I may do an extra hour or two as overtime. Friday's I look after my son while my girlfriend is working and come weekends I WFH on overtime doing 8/9 hours per day. I get absolutely knackered some days, not sure how you can do it 24/7, but then again, you've got no choice. I don't envy you one bit and hope your mum is comfortable with the care you provide her.

    Enjoy the new route, it's a well deserved escape from reality.
     
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  25. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Because you already own part of the package - the base game. So the price is lowered.
     
  26. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Its really hard to be honest and its a case of having to. Before I was made redundant I used to get her sorted before work then as soon as i got home again upto the point of going to work the next day and I caring for her. She's happy I think with the care But I dont have the best bedside manner lol. Neither would anyone if they are woken up 5 or 6 times overnight. I do (and really shouldn't) discuss it in some of my livestreams on how hard it is being a carer. But yeah I am looking forward to playing the route and seeing how good it is.

    Cheers
    Hentis
     
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  27. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    While the route itself seems interesting, this pretty much confirms a rather empty New Street (otherwise there would definitely be a mention of AI there). And preview 2 days prior to release, that's seriously bad. Already before working in feedback from viewers was bad, now it will be non-existent, nothing can be fixed that fast.
     
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  28. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm sure you're doing the best you possibly can for her. It's just a shame more help isn't available to you both.

    I'll check out your channel on Twitch.
     
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  29. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, having a bundle for every route is just gonna confuse new players and drive them away. People were confused by the Sonic Origin editions (Link if you want a summary) and that's a lot simpler than what you're suggesting right now. There's such a thing as too many options, and honestly I think TSW3's already saturated as is. Very few games go beyond three or four editions of the base game, and they're well past that in TSW3 as is. That store page is gonna be a nightmare for any new player if they add a starter pack for every new route that's released.
     
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  30. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Will be keeping an eye out for this on next weeks preview stream (if they show the platforms in rain!).

    We're seeing a price increase with a decrease of features from a previously released route!
     
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  31. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The problem for DTG is that their DLC model is very messy anyway, in theory it’s easier for a new player to access the game through any route, which is essentially what DTG are providing with the starter base packs.

    To be fair, if the training centre is devalued to the point that it will cost the same to buy a route with or without it, they should probably just make the core free, and keep it separate.

    Other than that they’d need to go back to yesrly bundles, either way, I think their aim here is to ultimately draw more people in.

    Of course there is the argument that UK players needed a better starter pack, so this could just be a one off.
     
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  32. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Can I also ask Two favours DTG JD ?

    1. That the chance of a reskinned loco show instead of the normal assigned loco is set to about 50% On TSW 3 on the PS5 on SEHS hardly any livery creator created locos appear on SEHS.

    2. That the map shows track that is not used by the player is shown and not covered up.

    Cheers Byeo, check out the You Tube Channel as well as that's where all the TSW videos are streamed. The only ones on Twitch is because I can only stream live on the Xbox via Twitch.

    Cheers
    Hentis
     
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  33. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    No XC services leaves a fairly large bit of trains not running and an empty New Street, another route that could have been set in the 1990s with the same train but a lot more AI and only one license required. I will continue to beat this drum but it seems many are happy to have ghost town routes. That would be fine if we hadn't seen what the likes of Brighton Mainljne can have in AI traffic.
     
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  34. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is DTG JD won't confirm if this is or isn't included regarding the TSW3 features...
     
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  35. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    Well, dtg lost the cross country license in tsc. They had it, released dlc for it but lost the license. And they still don't have it even fit tsw so I doubt it'll ever come
     
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  36. frabjousvector

    frabjousvector Well-Known Member

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    Well that’s gonna be a huge problem for BNS since there’s just such a prevalence of services there. They really should try and reobtain the license (if they didn’t try in the runup to BCC) because that licence is just so important to the Midlands and South West areas.
     
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  37. frabjousvector

    frabjousvector Well-Known Member

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    The franchise does expire in October next year, after which I assume it’ll be taken into an operator of last resort since that seems to be the way most recent franchises have gone, so maybe that’s their best opportunity to get the license back.
     
  38. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps its Cross Country that said no to DTG when they went to renew the license?
     
  39. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    I believe this is because Steam recently changed the default conversion rates for currencies.
     
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  40. kanamechidori#8728

    kanamechidori#8728 Member

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    Jesus £29.99, that's a hard sell
     
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  41. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    1) have mentioned this to Matt to investigate
    2) we hide the track that isn't playable so as not to mislead players as to the content of a route, but there might be a way we could do it in a different colour, perhaps. Again, have mentioned to Matt.
     
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  42. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    I think the silence from DTG on that particular subject says it all, unfortunately, hope to be proved wrong of course
     
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  43. frabjousvector

    frabjousvector Well-Known Member

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    We pay more we expect more, not less.
     
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  44. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Paying more is a red herring. You're paying the same, adjusted for inflation. Admittedly, you would still expect at least the same and certainly not less, but expecting more because of inflationary increase is like being refused an inflationary pay increase unless you take on extra duties or work more hours. That's not (or at least, shouldn't be) how it works.
     
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  45. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Sorry, not ignoring, just trying to get an answer for you. Will update as soon as I know.
     
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  46. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Guys, please tell me this is a pre-baked lighting shot of Birmingham New Street?

    This genuinely looks awful (way, way too bright and flat looking) and simply isn’t acceptable for the asking price.

    C1067B27-0F03-4803-BF9B-CB7F7346EE67.jpeg
     
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  47. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Oh my
     
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  48. frabjousvector

    frabjousvector Well-Known Member

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    Yikes…
     
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  49. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

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    That also doesn't mean there would be high quality. There are many games out there that are really expensive but were extremely poor quality or cut back on a lot of features. Just cuz price increases, doesn't mean quality or content would increase.
     
  50. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

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    expectations will always be higher the higher the price tag goes, anything can be upped in price doesn’t mean the quality will match, but people’s expectations will remain.
     
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