Boston Sprinter - Famous, Fast And Exhilarating!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Aug 5, 2021.

  1. pacificorca#1435

    pacificorca#1435 Active Member

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    Well I'd have to say the AI traffic density at south station is worth the price of admission alone, what a huge improvement over previous routes. I'm certainly sold on rush hour!
     
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  2. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I think I noticed the same mistake in the highway lane markings as we saw on Cane Creek. The double yellow lines should not be present in both directions or at all on the Interstate.
     
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  3. surreychuff#3060

    surreychuff#3060 Member

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    I think most of the context around this was that a lot of the 700 are AI services to destinations and branches that aren’t modelled within the route. So I’d rather they were there to add density, rather than not exist in the universe because their whole route isn’t modelled.
     
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  4. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Noticed that too. Can't be that difficult to fix before release. It does look odd, to say the least.
     
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  5. surreychuff#3060

    surreychuff#3060 Member

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    Thanks, yes was watching and glad it sounds like they’re on it… hopefully makes the 19Aug release!
     
  6. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Well-Known Member

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    i was surprised to see at first 187 services but if it’s realistic then it’s accurate and would be wrong to increase just for numbers, the 500 is Ai services is certainly great to hear
     
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  7. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

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    The stream looked pretty good, although I have a big issue with the headlights on the MBTA cab cars. They should be an urgent fix, as it's a huge break of immersion to see southbounds with bright headlights on the rear, and northbounds with no headlights. This issue also exists on the Peninsula Corridor, but the MBTA one is worse, as every single service has a headlight issue, rather than just a few southbounds.

    But wow, the railfanning part at Boston South Station was amazing. So many trains going in and out! (Would look better if they fixed the headlights :)) The ACS-64 sounded really nice as well. I'm not very familiar with them, but it sure does sound really nice once it starts moving. The CSX layers are a nice touch, perhaps they'll be drivable for a bit of free switching. Sounds quite nice, switching some hoppers around while a bunch of passenger trains zoom by. Overall, I'm really excited for the route, and perhaps even more once the MBTA stuff is shown off.
     
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  8. Scotrail156467

    Scotrail156467 Well-Known Member

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    Need to sort out headlights and tail lights
     
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  9. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Positives from the stream - winter looks so much better and the passengers have better clothes. That’s all I have right now but it is a major improvement. We’ve only seen Amtrak so far for this route, so nothing exciting but the loco seemed to be pretty well done. The route looks okay but it is one of those straight line routes so nothing to get excited about. I did get excited during the stream when I knew a corner was coming up.

    Dovetail can’t do game UI very well, and it looks worse every time I see it. No design sensibilities at all, as can be seen in the new map for this route and other places. Awful colours and practically unreadable layout of labels, everything a map shouldn’t be.
     
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  10. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with both of you. I'm only just at the start of the stream, but I must say having now seen the extra AI traffic in action, I'm extremely pleased to see how busy it is, regardless of how much we can drive. Currently, I will buy this route on day one.
     
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  11. Tynmar

    Tynmar Well-Known Member

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    Not long in to the stream now and looks and sounds great…. However….

    for the love of god, please ditch the giant pink curser. Can’t take it seriously!!! Headphones fine :D
     
  12. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Funny how I don't like this route when announced. And now, I still don't like it for how it looks for release. It's a hard pass for me BIG TIME.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  13. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Just another question to anyone who is familiar with the real route. On the drive down to Providence, does the amount of traffic on the line look realistic? I mention this as I don't recall seeing that many trains passing in the opposite direction as I thought would be there - appreciate the time is after 'rush hour' though.
     
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  14. pacificorca#1435

    pacificorca#1435 Active Member

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    Seemed about right to me, by the time we got out past rte 128 the rush hour MBTA schedule would probably have slowed down a little bit but I think I would have expected to run into an MBTA service closer to providence (though that's a total guess without looking at a timetable)
     
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  15. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    I would think that all Amtrak services are drivable since they head down the NEC except for one round trip a day, the Boston section of the Lakeshore Limited. The bulk of the undrivable trains are MBTA trains to points that the route does not cover.
     
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  16. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    The route is relatively quiet once you get past Canton Junction to be honest as there's no more "branch traffic" at that point and MBTA don't run a huge number of services to Providence. North of that you've got multiple branch lines feeding into the NEC which is where the traffic volume comes from. If you look at the Amtrak and MBTA timetables on their respective sites you'll see they aren't massively busy on a particular line - it's the combination of lines that makes the traffic up.

    Yes, all Amtrak services are drivable, including many going into the shed and doing the reversing loop.
     
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  17. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    Really great preview stream. It demonstrated the passenger improvements and ´rush hour´ feel perfectly. I´ve never expected anything revolutionary from this game, slow evolution and more of the same is pretty much what I expect to see, so when the passengers filled the platform and all those MBTA services came and went in the space of 10 minutes, I was pleased that it was doing what DTG set out to do.

    Despite being a faster straight-line kinda route, NEC is the one I´ve been most excited for. It´ll be good to experience the ACS-64 at full pelt, something we never got with the other end of the route in TSW2020, and with the MBTA traffic around Boston it looked absolutely brilliant.

    I´m looking forward to the other two routes as well now! With the variation of traffic available for Dresden, it´ll be a sight to behold with volumes like this.

    A job well done!
     
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  18. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    If that's the case, why are there only 17 (the mainline runs) selectable?
    upload_2021-8-6_0-18-29.png
    upload_2021-8-6_0-18-54.png
     
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  19. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    You make an excellent point... let me go check...
     
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  20. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Hello Matt,

    thank you very much for your informations. I would like to ask you, if the CSX stuff we saw in the stream at the freight yards is AI only or can we do some switching action with it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  21. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

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    Another issue I noticed is that this route has a short setup time. At the start of the Amtrak service to Providence, Matt had just 1 minute to set up the train and load passengers before leaving. The time it took to fully load passengers was 1 minute, meaning he would have to immediately open the doors to be fully on time. It’s pretty annoying when the setup time is simply the passenger loading time (Bakerloo does this too; and that’s even worse because the loading time is 15 seconds). So hopefully the setup time can be extended to 2 minutes, so that the driver can properly set up the train without being in such a rush.
     
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  22. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Matt Can I make a point about the above screenshot of the timetable. In the column for the amount of time the service takes, the time is represented as if it is a time on the 24 hr clock instead of a duration, which would not have a double zero for the hours. This makes it look like a time rather than a duration and is in itself very confusing. Could it be changed to one digit for the hours in that column?
     
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  23. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. It makes it look like it's the start and end time of a very long service(s).
     
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  24. MLP Derick

    MLP Derick Active Member

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    the freight in the freight yards is more for scenery but some of the yards do have manual switches if you want to do switching in the yards the freight trains won't run on the mainline
     
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  25. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    The ACS-64 really looks like a fun drive. And, nice horn!
     
  26. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    Some good things here if you overlook the bad. The ACS got a much needed upgrade in terms of sound, physics, and in cab functionality. I like how winter no longer looks like a white blob in the distance with trees rendering without the white layer, and the timetable looks pretty good. Unfortunately this route continues the trend of DTG's increasingly poor station build quality. I can understand distant scenery can be more laxed in terms of detail, but I would expect stations to be shown much more emphasis, and it seems like they've just continued to sacrifice in this department since the Rapid Transit/Great Western Express days.


    MBTA uses mini high platforms so that wheelchair/people with physical disabilities don't have to use steps to get onto the train. Doesn't seem like any station depicts any of these ramps though, so I guess in the DTG universe, disabled people just don't exist and MBTA stations that are wheelchair accessible aren't. Seems kind of harsh, but considering they also completely omitted these ramps from Peninsula Corridor and Oakville subdivision on the Go Train stations, it seems more like a trend. An odd choice since I would think MBTA would like to advertise this feature in a virtual depiction of their system, instead of just pretending like wheelchairs don't exist.
     

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  27. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Quick question to the community regarding the MBTA cab car....is this only used for the Stoughton branch runs from Boston due to it having no way to turn around at Stoughton ? Seeing as though the loop at Boston turns the consist around, it doesn't get used for the Boston-Providence main line at all ?

    Also.....I'm assuming the Stoughton branch line services run from Boston only (so no Providence - Stoughton services) ?
     
  28. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Developer

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    Only at Widett Circle, Southampton Yard area, and on the Stoughton branch.
     
  29. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Developer

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    The locomotive and the cab car have controls and cab signals. they don't have to turn around like Amtrak trains do. They're used universally across all MBTA branches
     
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  30. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Indeed they do. The wheelchair ramps were specifically pointed out during the stream.
     
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  31. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Great...thanks for the info
     
  32. wxtr7

    wxtr7 Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that too, but this isn't new to this route. I did a Clinchfield service a while back late evening in the Summer and it was getting dark and hard to see by 8P. I'm from Maryland, and I know in the summer it's still plenty light out until 830/9P, and Clinchfields location is slightly further west in the timezone so they should get a few more minutes than me. I'm thinking that Daylight Saving time isn't account for (it does make things more complex), but also leads to some undesired/expected effects.


    After watching the stream, I'm excited.
    Love the new sounds on the ACS64, the addition of the blowers really adds a nice touch.
    It's also nice to see ATC/ACSES implemented better, although I remember there being a countdown in the original ACS64 ACSES for when speed reductions are up ahead. Is there a reason this was removed?
    The new passenger system makes things feel so much more alive, a world of a difference.

    It would've been nice to get new F40 sounds - though I thought the new sounds comment was applying to everything and not just the ACS64. I've been doing a couple Penn Corridor services recently, and the F40 sounds worse to me than it used to (probably related to the TSW2 sound issues in general) which also came through on the stream tonight. In particular, the engine acceleration curves seem way off and done very poorly. The HEP engine also sounded the same, but I also have no idea what the CAT vs. Cummins engines sound like, so..
    Also disappointing the ACS64 still has the minimal amount of push-able buttons, but that's pretty standard about American content so not shocking. I'm gonna agree with Sam's comments, I want to push all the buttons :) (even if they do nothing)
     
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  33. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I am very impressed with this route! The railfanning scene with all the trains coming in and out of Boston South was amazing. I also like the fact that the ACS-64 did get new sounds and physics and isn't just a lame copy & paste from NEC NY. The wrong catenary and the appearance of the stations aren't a deal breaker for me, everything's fine as long as the trains have accurate sounds and physics, and that the route isn't a buggy mess.
     
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  34. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    What I find a pity is the reduced snow illustration on the locomotives and wagons. Here there is only some snow at the front in the lower area and above it everything looks clean. In previous DLC, you also had snow on the roof on the locomotive and wagons.
    On the ACS-64 you don't even see any snow at all. Not even at the front.

    Does the ATC no longer have a countdown to reduce speed? According to the stream, before the reduction is reached, the new speed simply appears in the display and you are already too fast, although according to the HUD the speed is only valid in 0.5 miles. This does not make a good impression and was different with the first NEC route.
     
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  35. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    In case some people thought I was only feeling negative about this route, a couple of things I did really like:

    1. The new passenger system, including diversity of clothing. It was very satisfying to see that mass of people pouring out of an absolutely packed commuter train at Boston Station at the beginning of the stream.

    2. The re-worked audio and ACSES for the ACS-64 were good. I don’t know how it feels in real life as I’m not a locomotive engineer, but it seemed more logical than its TSW 2020 implementation. Hopefully, when it releases, we will have some community members who are more familiar with it tell us just how accurate it is or isn’t :)

    Now for the not so great stuff…

    1. The scenery is just… not great. No, the stuff far away from the tracks doesn’t need to be super detailed, but a lot of the texturing seemed flat and a lot of the buildings seemed to be overly simplified. It gave me heavy SEHS (for the High Speed 1 section) vibes for being kind of… forgettable.

    2. The headlights are still not great. With full beams and ditch lights, the ACS-64 was only lighting up the first seven feet of the tunnel at Back Bay? That doesn’t seem right to me. And some trains had full headlights and ditch lights on at the rear, while others were driving with no headlights at all? I hope those latter issues will at least be fixed for launch.
     
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  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Um, one of those was specifically featured in the stream, and Matt discussed how the doors have been reprogrammed to sense platform height and extend the steps or not accordingly.
     
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  37. HotdogDay#5435

    HotdogDay#5435 New Member

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    I liked the stream and love more traffic but the aspects on the wayside signals, ADU cab signals, and ATC target speeds didn't match each other or were not correct. Hopefully that gets worked out before release. Seeing a yellow over red approach wayside signal get shown on the ADU as Approach Medium for a 45 mph target makes no sense.
     
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  38. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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  39. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but that's just the deal if you want to have a high speed route / train. Most of the routes where these kind of trains drive are exactly like this :D
     
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  40. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    And the Boston end is quite interesting, so it’s not like it’s like that all the way. It is just one of the things that caught my attention during part of the stream. One of the things I like about LGV Med is that even though it is a high speed route there are constant curves and hills, so they aren’t all dead straight and flat.
     
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  41. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    This is correct, Time to Penalty counter is only used for approaching a full stop aspect, not at any other time - this is one of the recent learnings we've had from talking with Amtrak staff about the detail as part of the process of improving it all.

    Matt.
     
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  42. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    It is an awesome experience to see this solution. For Dutch railways in most case a railroad employee must go to the station and provide assistance by placing a moveable bridge. Which is very cumbersome. Also, if you want to bring a bike loaded with camping luggage, it is a hard job to board or unboard it.We now really need some people in wheelchairs at the platforms ...
     
  43. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I think I like the passenger update and better snow. On older routes you can do this by turning the snow level to max 70% in the weather settings. Hopefully elder routes will be updated.

    A simple: please let us know timely when exactly the core game update will go live, si I can remove my DLC just before that moment.
    Looking forward to the next streams. Seeing the MBTA stock, I fully agree with Matt's preferred colour.

    I am looking forward to see some CSX engines supporting ATC and ACSES and I would love to have a freight DLC with lot's of shunting in all those intriguing yards. (Are they accessible on foot?)
     
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  44. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    That short high platform isn't ready for Nat doing Natalie though :D
     
  45. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Just to be clear - the CSX stock is layered in from Sand Patch and does *not* support ATC/ACSES, which is the main reason it's not been used in any active services. You can move it around in the confined yards as they are all manual junctions - but that's it.
     
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  46. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Does CSX normally have a special selection of locos equipped with ATC and ACSES for NEC?
     
  47. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    All the many people on the platform who get on and off... sit then also in the train or were the also really in the train or are the simply spawned at the door and disappear when boarding also?
     
  48. Mevans193

    Mevans193 Well-Known Member

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    Just watched the stream and I’m honestly really impressed. I could instantly recognize several landmarks, such as the Federal Reserve Tower in Boston or the “Superman” building in Providence. Glad to see Attleboro station modeled correctly as I’ve railfanned many times there. And although it’s the incorrect operator in the game, it still put a big smile on my face to see the coal hoppers in Pawtucket yard. In real life there’s a string of P&W coal hoppers that have been in storage there for at least a year. The incorrect catenary wasn’t a deal breaker but I’m glad it’s being fixed. I hope the lights on the AI cab cars gets fixed before release. And I also noticed on a river at the MA/RI state line that the water tiles were different heights so I hope that can get fixed as well. And yes the MBTA cars should be dirtier but maybe MBTA wanted them clean in the game. Overall, as someone who was railfanned and riden on this line, good job DTG
     
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  49. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    I believe the CSX cab signaling and PTC works with the Amtrak systems, from what I’ve seen in other railroads locomotives that run on Amtrak.
     
  50. HotdogDay#5435

    HotdogDay#5435 New Member

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    Yes, all locomotives operating here requires them. The Providence and Worcester Railroad who operates here got some federal funds recently to install equipment compatible with Amtrak's system. I think dovetail using the already made CSX sand patch assets is more to help fill in yards and they don't have to develop a freight locomotive just for this route.
     

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