Br 101 Bugs And Errors List

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Jo_Kim, Apr 22, 2021.

  1. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    This is a list of bugs and errors I found while driving the BR 101. The list might be extended in future. The list only contains short entries, for further details put your questions in this thread.

    BR 101:
    • Too much wheel slip in wet conditions [needs traction force calculations to verify]
    • Displays copied from Bombardier Traxx
    • Camera of centre (shifted to the left)
    • Doors open before the train stops
    • Dynamic brake lever doesn't latch in the deactivated position (most front position)
    • Voice alert "Zugbeeinflussung" sometimes looping after releasing from a Zwangsbremsung
    • Whiper stops working after a Zwangsbremsung

    IC coaches:
    • Door alarm to quiet
    • Brake mode set to R instead of R+Mg
    • Crossing plates raised on AI trains
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
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  2. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    For me the dorr alarm and Interior light seems to work
     
  3. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    The interior light was my fault as I have used the wrong switch in the cab. This was removed from the list.
    The door alarm does work but is really quiet. The real alarms are quite loud so they need some adjustment in the game.
    Example:
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  4. Choo choo mofos

    Choo choo mofos Member

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    PZB and LZB lights do not work in the cab.
    So you won't see the 70/85 lights flashing when starting a service with pzb, or the red 500hz light when approaching a red signal for example.
    Likewise, you won't be able to tell what and where changes take place when driving under LZB - because the lights just stay off. For the record I tried the cab with safety systems enabled on Koln-Aachen.

    Is this intended?
    It's a bit of an immersion killer, especially for those like me who driving HUDless

    Edit: PZB lights work in scenarios but not in timetable mode, unless I need to do something to turn them on...?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  5. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    The wheel slip is annoying. I barely set it to 50% throttle and the wheel slip occurs. Hope they fix it soon.
     
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  6. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Other players seem to think this is supposed to happen. I’m not so sure.
     
  7. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    The BR 101 has a modern electric wheel slip protection installed. At the moment the BR 101 feels like a prototype for the first mechanical wheel slip protection system.
    The wheels itself shouldn't slip, the locomotive should decrease the power automatically right before the wheels would lose grip.
     
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  8. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    It is called super-slip and it is intentional. The loco does it by purpose when calling a certain amount of tractive effort. It is not massive slip, but just a bit more slip than usual what causes some resonance in the wheels what causes the screaming noise. You will not lose much power with the super-slip working. With the TRAXX locos you basicalle lose all the power when they cant control the macro-slip anymore.
     
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  9. Coppo

    Coppo Well-Known Member

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    I have encountered an issue with the raildriver controls. When increasing the throttle too quickly the direction control switches to neutral. it may be that the RD needs to be recalibrated, I've not checked as yet.
     
  10. Glazier

    Glazier Member

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    So, is the train supposed to operate within the slip zone during normal operation, or we should limit the power to 45-60%? Also breaking power seems to be not dependent on throttle settings when using AFB, is it OK to let it slip and hope for the protection recovery (It does recover fast)?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  11. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    I have noticed that the AI trains have the “bridges” between the coaches put up, you can cross it but you walk basically on the coupler and on air...
     
  12. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    The AFB braking force is not dependent on the throttle lever on any loco.
     
  13. Glazier

    Glazier Member

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    It does on TGV cruise control, but well, it is AFB, yes :).
     
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  14. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    That's correct but the TGV isn't a german train and therefore doesn't have the AFB. Of course many locos have similar systems like AFB, but AFB also applies to special rules and operations demanded on the German rail network.
     
  15. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    That is correct. It does not work on the BR101 except the exMet versions (what are not represented with this pack)

    Nope, it is correct as implemented here in the BR101.

    Nope, it is using pneumatic brakes if it needs to.

    Have already said alot about it in the forums here. It does use slip control for sure, but maybe different than you expect.

    Nope, definitely not. They are 'recorded' in a 101. Most older TRAXX using the same old Adtranz voices too. It is a software thing, not loco dependent.
     
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  16. diamondderp

    diamondderp Well-Known Member

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    But I don't think the ICE 3 "Zwangsbremsung" voice is in this loco in real life.
     
  17. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    They work for me np even in timetable, I just pressed CTRL+NUM_ENTER to turn PZB and LZB on. There is an "indicatiors dimmer" right to the indicators, which can dim those light.
     
  18. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    Ok I have checked some of these and can remove them from the list:
    The door light doesn't seem to work on the BR 101. Since it uses the same door control system as the ICEs and they show a yellow light I assumed it was also the case here.
    I have mistaken the High Brake Force indicator for those usually found on rolling stock with conventional brakes. The relation between braking force and speed is reversed with disk brakes so the indicator works correctly.
    Yes the AFB does decrease the pressure in the brake pipe. I have only watched the cylinder pressure which remains at 0bar on the loco to have an equal force along the train.
     
  19. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    Thanks for the info. I did notice that despite the wheel slip indication it was reducing and increasing speeds and I saw the power cut out at one point as well.
     
  20. ASRGT

    ASRGT Well-Known Member

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    They work in all modes if turned on in my experience.
     
  21. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    This is a known issue that happens on PS only. DTG have had quite a few reports about it an they are looking into it.
     
  22. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    I've just tested the BR101 with 7-cars and these are my thoughts:

    1. Can someone confirm that the Hohe Abbremsung light should be on at all times? I thought it would only light up above 100 km/h (and maybe also only when dynamic brakes are 0 but air brakes are applied.

    1.1: From my understanding the Hohe Abbremsung mechanism increases brake cylinder pressure at high speeds (above 100 km/h or in some cases above 80 km/h) to counteract weakened brakes at high speeds in tread brakes. From this description the feature seems incorrect/non-functioning in the BR101 since if you check the brake cylinder pressure it actually is lower at high speeds rather than the opposite. I'm ambivalent about whether I want DTG to fix this because (read below) the air brake performance is quite realistic atm.

    2. I tested braking the locomotive (+ 7 loaded wagons) at 160 km/h and compared the stopping distance in full service (1025m) with the BrH (bremshundertstel = brake mass / train mass * 100) and it was almost perfect. Stopping distance implied 138 BrH and the real one should be 139, very good! Well within normal variance. (Note: I used the official UIC documents to calculate this, they should be available in my previous posts)

    3. Loaded train weight seems wrong. If you read the printed weights it should be 51 t loaded for all wagons and the locomotive weighs 84t which is 441t for the whole train while the description in TSW2 reads 400t. 400t is about the weight for an empty train.
    What effect does this have on the simulation? Deceleration (with dynamic brakes) and acceleration will be higher than on the real train, about 10% higher so not too bad but should be easily fixed. If DTG decides to fix this, make sure the air brake force is increased the same amount so as not to break the very good realism of the air brakes. Basically: increase brake force and wagon weight by a factor of 10%.

    4. Locomotive adhesion seems quite realistic. I get wheel slip at 80% tractive effort when starting in dry conditions, this corresponds to about 0.29 coefficient of friction which is reasonable for a locomotive without wheel slip creep control, which (afaik) isn't used in BR101.

    5. I concur that the locomotive lacks any wheel slip protection (automatic reduction in tractive effort when wheel slip is detected or automatic sanding), but I'm not familiar with what systems are used on the real locomotive.

    All in all I must say I'm quite pleased with the realism of the DLC, one of the better ones released so far.
     
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  23. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    You did your homework :). To me everything felt right, but it's nice to have the numbers to back that up.
     
  24. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    A7AC9E64-6EAC-44D1-9F4D-FFD7481DBADE.jpeg
     
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  25. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    This thread looks like a busted flush! Bugs and errors or user misinterpretation and opinions...you decide.
     
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  26. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the answers, Maik!
    I could almost sense your presence in the quality of the BR101, reminiscent of the old ExpertLine locos, did you contribute to this DLC? :)

    I see that you already answered some of my questions, I should’ve read the thread more carefully or perhaps the answers came while I had begun writing already.

    Glad to see some of the things I mentioned are prototypical!
     
  27. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Yep, it doesn’t work for me on PS5.
     
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  28. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I think the main problem is the lack of a proper manual. As far as I can tell, it seems like the 101 is modelled very accurately, but that also means that there are numerous characteristics, which require more explanation. At the moment, all information about the prototypical features of the 101 in TSW2 comes from Maik Goltz‘s posts on the forums. Not every forums user has the time to track these posts down and I imagine Maik‘s got his own work to do and can‘t hang around the forums all day to answer questions.

    I believe Matt said yesterday that TSG did most of the work on the loco itself apart from the 3D modelling.
     
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  29. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    So it is a new loco which we pay for but it has faults?
    I will ignore this add-on until it is fixed - maybe in a couple of years it might be
     
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  30. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think any of the ‘faults’ are that major to withhold buying it. Of course, that’s your decision to make, but it’s such a fun locomotive to drive, you’ll be missing out on it.
     
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  31. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Yes. And this is the best passenger TSW loco too at the moment. Choose your destiny.
     
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  32. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I'm quite happy driving the TS2021 version as that works as it should
     
  33. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I don't think TS physics works as the should but if You say so :)
     
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  34. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I don't have any problems with the loco as it runs.
    If you don't like it don't use it.
     
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  35. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Where did I write that I don't like her? You are complaining here for several posts.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  36. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    You’re definitely missing out then. Driving the 101 on HRR is very fun. Lots of trains, lots of adverse signals. I’m enjoying it immensely.
     
  37. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    If you like the TS1 Version then you will like the TSW2 version too. Made by the same person (technically and sound wise). It has the same characteristics and sounds (as far as possible). The TSW2 version is a bit better in terms of phyiscs i would say.
     
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  38. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks but I will stick with the TS2021 version.
    I can use the train on different routes without having to create separate scenarios.
     
  39. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    It is interesting that many of the “bugs and errors” are not that, and the thread may have been premature. To be fair, the list has been pared down. However, “voice alarms copied” remains despite being disproved by the DLC creator. Also, wheel slip should also be removed since it is prototypical. I suspect the door opening is as well.

    Much of this could have been solved by a manual, but I would feel more comfortable with this thread if it had been titled as “possible errors” or “Questions about the 101.”

    No slight on the OP, but I can imagine it is somewhat disheartening to pour yourself into creating a really amazing and realistic model only to see people then just assume that what seems unusual is a bug or error rather than prototypical.
     
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  40. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    This was just the case as I needed time to cross-check some of these points again. So they will remain on this list until I have some sources that can prove these clarifications. Therefore the voice alarm took until now to be removed because I had to find separate recordings to be certain if the voice is really that similar.
     
  41. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Just a suggestion, maybe do those checks before writing the post?

    Having said that I did find Maik’s posts explaining things in this and the other threads very interesting. I wish he would do a video or an article on the Loco as I know very little about them and know a lot more now.
     
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  42. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    Most of the removed entries were listed in this thread because they are special to the BR 101. So rather than checking every entire for the small chance that it could be different with this loco I just wrote them down and checked them after Maik corrected me on these.
    Of course there were many entries on the list that were false but if I hadn't put them there somebody else would have and they had to be corrected anyway. We now have clarity about those false entries, they were removed and we can focus on the remaining entries.
     
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  43. Amax

    Amax Active Member

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    Donc si j'ai bien compris et sur la loco on a le frein sur la position R on doit avoir une perssion de 6,2 bar max et on a 5,2 bar max et du coup c'est faux?
     
  44. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    I dunno if it was said already but the plates between the coaches are not lowered
     
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  45. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    but only on AI trains
     
  46. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for mentioning that, I've added it to the list.
     
  47. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    That is prototypical for that loco. Written down in the drivers manual (what i cant show you here, but believe me, it is in there).
     
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  48. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    There is a manual available online from 2004 but I didn't find anything mentioning that (http://static.scbist.com/scb/uploaded/1_1388496392.pdf). Does "your" manual say anything about why this happens?
     
  49. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    And not only in the videogames!
     
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  50. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    I have two questions for you Maik:

    1. Does BR101 feature "blended braking"? I notice that sometimes the brake cylinder will be 0 even though the HL is below 5 bar, which points to the locomotive using electric brakes instead of air brakes.

    2. At low speeds when stopping it seems like the train applies air brake automatically (for example if I stop in 1B which is quite a low setting the air brake cylinder will increase to more than that just as the train stops). I know some trains have a "holding brake" mechanism where the train automatically applies brake when the train stops so as not to inadvertently move in a gradient for example. Does the BR101 have something like this as well?

    3. How do train drivers stop smoothly with such a mechanism? I remember reading a German instruction (I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the document anymore) for drivers to decrease the brakes to around 4.6 bar (1B I think) at low speeds and then stop with the brakes in release to avoid a jerk. With the train automatically applying brakes at low speeds this seems more difficult to achieve.
     

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