Br 101 Expert Sifa

So, I am training myself for this loco, and I already encountered sth I need advice for, since it isnt in the manual... I mean, I am not a rookie, I know how Sifa works, but I usually manage to be just fine with it, only getting Sifa Zwangsbremsung when I am very sleepy... anyway, I checked how does this loco behave when it gets this penalty brake

Usually, even if you get it, once you press the Sifa button, it releases after a bit and lets you recover... in Training Center, I tried accelerating all the way up to 160 kph and then getting Sifa Zwangsbremsung, and despite me pressing the button and zeroing the throttle, I didnt manage to get the traction lock off and ground to a halt... any tips? I think I set the train data correctly (got the same consist as the "example" in manual), so the loco should be set up correctly

Any tips appreciated... maybe I am just dumb atm lol

 

Above 160 you will get a PZB Zwangse if you're not in LZB mode, as you cannot drive on sight anymore at this speed. Let the train come to a halt, check the V=0 display. Usually pressing PZB release shoudl be enough. But, I'm just beginning to explore the 101 as you are, only speaking from Zusi experience.

Zwangse = short german railroader term for penalty brake application (Zwangsbremsung) - btw anybody knows where Rob and VidzFromHell are now? I guess drinking and smoking on YT was too much...

 

I know, but this thread is about Sifa Zwangsbremsung, sth you should be able to recover from if you press Sifa button in time and reset throttle, and you should recover the train before it grinds to a halt... but here I press the button, the traction lock on the display disappears, but the yellow thingie ZSG/Pneu is on and I have no idea how to get rid of it to regain control

Sifa Zwangsbremsung, while annoying, should be recoverable without complete stop

 

I am gonna try this.

ZSG Pneu means Zwangsbremsung (pneumatical brakes), the Störung advises to support the Zwangse with a Schnellbremsung (set the train brake to emergency). In your case, you are required to stop.

As I have not seen what happened before, I cannot say if this was a pure SiFa or PZB Zwangsbremsung (you cannot recover a PZB Zwangse while running)

 

I just go a Zwangse at 110 Kph on Rosenheim-Salzburg, arguably I pressed the Sifa button a second late and couldn't recover afterwards which should be possible. The train went to full stop. So that seconds razmatus#2517 argument... Maybe a bug?

 

If it is a pure SiFa Zwangse, you should be able to recover by pressing the SiFa button, yes. It should not require a halt.

It might be a bug.

Best to test all this on the Training Centre loop.

 

Your post is not clear in that it might have been a GPA or missed PZB confirmation - check the St display it will tell you.

 

I tried these things - resetting throttle... train brake into quick release momentarily... brake overcharge button... nothing helped... maybe there is sth else

I mean, PZB is quite different here, so maybe also Sifa follows a more complex procedure... like, you have to press Sifa button and then sth else ?

 

PZB Zwangse: Apply Emergency brake, sander (lives could be at risk) and release brakes after coming to a halt. Press PZB Release

SiFA Zwangse: Press SiFa, brakes should release. Depending on your train and brake mode, you might still come to a halt due to release times.

For testing, always check for one special condition. Turn off fault simulation, let the train run without confirming SiFa and wait for the Zwangse. If brakes don't release after pressing SiFa, it is a bug and can be reported as such.

 

in the manual there is this:
PNEU:
Zwangsbremsung
unbekannter
Ursache
Emergency brake
for unknown
reason.

but it was a classic Sifa Zwangbremsung... upon pressing Sifa button, Traktionsperre (traction lock I guess) disappeared, but the other thing, ZSG/Pneu remained until stop

 

Have you set the throttle to off to overcome traction lock due to pneu brakes applied?

 

yep... to have more time, I accelerated to 160 kph, then set the throttle to off just in case, let the Sifa penalty brake app happen... pressed Sifa button, and did that thing with resetting the throttle etc., nothing got rid of that ZSG Pneu thing

 

also, I just noticed, once you stop, the 1000 Hz light flashes for a bit, even if it is Sifa thing... so this looks like a bug I guess

 

Give me some time, I haven't even read the manual. Can't seem to be able to engage PZB in Freeroam. Entered train data, indicators still dark. (though that might be a free roam thing, will try in a timetable service to ensure full functionality to test.)

 

I must be really dumb. I can't get PZB running on the MFA version.

What am I missing here?

 

for today, I give up... might try tomorrow with the same consist in TC

 

Could you give some more details of when/how this happens? I just tried it myself in the game and I am able to acknowledge Sifa and forestall the penalty, and if I don't acknowledge in time and get the penalty brake application ("Sifa Zwangsbremsung") the penalty clears when I acknowledge. It takes some time for the brakes to release after an emergency brake application because the brake pipe accelerators won't release immediately (devices that open the brake pipe on each coach if they sense a quick reduction in pressure) so you may get stopped if you are running at a low-ish speed. You can see this if you look at the brake pipe gauge right when the penalty brake occurs. First there is a quick reduction in pressure, then when you acknowledge the reduction almost stops but there is a slow drop in pressure (the brake pipe accelerators "lagging") then after a few more seconds the pressure starts to increase again.

The 1000 Hz light flashes for several different conditions, one of those being low brake pipe pressure. Some other conditions are the LZB/PZB cut-off valve being closed or PZB being inhibited by the reverser being in reverse or the PZB fault isolation button being pressed. All of this is prototypical

 

Check inside the machine room on the left side when standing in the door from cab 1. There is a console with the main and auxiliary compressor and a bunch of valves. Under the console (in the center almost) there is a red valve which is the LZB/PZB Cut-off valve. Open that and PZB will work (assuming reverser is not in Off/Reverse or the LZB/PZB main circuit breaker is not open).

 

Ooooh thanks William!

I was running up and down the engine room thinking "there has to be a valve!!!"

 

actually, I havent given up cos OCD yaaay ... so I turned on Kassel Wurzburg, did stuff... aaaand... Sifa works... so it might be another Training Center bug

 

so as I said a moment ago, tried Kassel... and it works... so it might be one of those quirky Training Center only bugs... I tested it several times in a row and while the slowing down was significant, as it is with Sifa brake applications, I managed to recover

 

tried now on Dresden Riesa, and it took its sweet time to release the brakes, but I managed not to stop ... from 160 to like 5 kph lol, so yeah, the brakes can be quite aggressive

 

They have to be "aggressive" - the Zwangsbremsung "assumes" the worst - a passed out driver. It dumps the air, and the train must come to a halt asap. It won't just go to 4.5 bars to smoothly brake

Good to test thoroughly before declaring something a bug mate, well done

 

yea, I guess... tho I noticed that on Dresden Riesa those were quite aggressive, while on Kassel Wurzburg I could do this like 3 or 4 times in a row and still keep going... I guess it really and massively depends on the consist...

 

In expert mode is it possible to isolate sifa? I tried the yellow valve in the engine room which gives an error message on the screen but doesn't actually stop sifa alerts. I want to turn sifa off, as it's not audible in external cams (bug?)

 

Close the SiFa valve, open the SiFa breaker, and isolate the SiFa störschalter.

 

Lifesaver! Thanks Spikee. I spent 10 minutes trying to find that breaker.

 

it is also explained in a very brief tutorial module

 

Fair enough, I just took the bull by the horns and jumped right into a timetable.

 

almost the same lol... but I did all the training modules first, then tried on my own in Training Center, which proved to be wrong cos there + Free Roam it is impossible to release from Sifa penalty... so I tried it in Timetable mode, and got a bit better at the calculation... which is the most difficult thing to do, since they dont provide you with stuff (and the weight of the train differs a lot from actual weight - I use "loaded" weight in train mass calculations)

as long as you dont encounter any fault, that train data thing is the most time consuming thing in setup, rest is very similar to original BR101... and if something happens, you can find most of stuff in manual (I got one fault that I couldnt quite pin in the manual, so I went into the engine room and saw one of the circuit breakers tripped, so I closed it back and the fault went away)

to prevent any delay, the best bet is to load a service, count the numbers, write em down, use the BrH calculator and the table in manual, again write that down, then restart the service with data already prepared

right now my biggest "gripe" is to figure out how to wiggle my way out of a potential Sifa Zwangsbremsung aka penalty brake application... will probably try and dig the manual for hints, and I am sure knowledgeable players will test the hell out of this as well, and hopefully I get to something

maybe I missed a detail or two, maybe I should have used the weight provided by the game in the pause menu, who knows ... I count on the player base to help me find out, as they always have (and which is why I dig this community despite occasional outbursts of emotion ... but then, trains are a passion, so I cant fault ppl for that I guess)