Br 143 On Nahverkehr

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by awdcafc, Sep 10, 2021.

  1. awdcafc

    awdcafc New Member

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    Any body else having trouble with starting up BR143, Doing what it says until set train brakes to Running but the handle wont move stuck on off, any help would be welcome, tks.
     
  2. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    The model for the 143 is different than the one from other routes. This one includes a working Brake Key. You need to set the Brake Key to On before you can move the brake lever.

    The Brake Key is to the right of the lever, close to the window.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2021
  3. awdcafc

    awdcafc New Member

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    Thank you, found it working now, tks again.
     
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  4. Illegal Prime

    Illegal Prime Member

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    I've found that even with that all set up, with the force selector on full, the train won't start when i move the speed selector, all brakes released, keys checked, breaker checked, nothing.
     
  5. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Did you insert the reverser and put it in the Forward position?
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2021
  6. Illegal Prime

    Illegal Prime Member

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    yes, and its in forward. I've found that it sometimes works to move the speed selector to on before selecting a speed, but only sometimes, I'm not sure what to do to make it work consistently.
     
  7. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Two things:
    1. The new 143 has a really aggressive traction lock. Try waiting a few seconds after the brake cylinder has reached 0.0 bar before applying any power. If that‘s difficult because you‘re on a hill, try the real-life way of staring the 143 - set the speed control to on and then use the auxiliary control (lever next to traction selector or [CRTL][R]) to manually apply power. This bypasses the traction lock. By the time you‘re properly moving, setting the speed control back to off and then to the desired speed should lift the traction lock.
    2. If you‘re stuck on the 143 tutorial, the handbrake is actually applied. It‘s a big lever round the left corner of the driver‘s desk.
     
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  8. animatiker

    animatiker Member

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    The traction lock on the new 143 seems to be a bit too aggressive. I've been on a real 143 a few times, but it's nowhere that aggressive. As I drive without HUD, I was moving the speed control handle 3 or 4 times yesterday and wondered why the power still wouldn't apply.
    The real 143 has the so-called "Erich-Honecker-Gedenksekunde" (a moment of silence for Erich Honecker) though, after moving the speed handle the loco need some time before actually applying power.
     
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  9. AhhCaffeine

    AhhCaffeine Member

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    Do you maybe know where this is coming from?
     
  10. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Unlike you, I haven‘t been lucky enough to be in the cab of a real 143, but this new traction lock seems way to aggressive.
     
  11. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Oh, that something new :) Nice info!
     
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  12. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    This is the first time I've heard this term and I absolutely love it :D
     
  13. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    This is a bug. The traction lock should disappear when BC is below 1.2 bar (and train brakes are released ofc). Not sure why this isn't what's happening.

    I think it might be a bug that I've noticed on the 766.2 cab car as well. Basically you need to cycle the AFB lever to on-off-on. Check that the throttle indication goes from red colored to grey/white/background, then you know that the traction lock has disengaged.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2021
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  14. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    What service or scenario were you running? Might be easier for us to help if we knew that (in case it is specific to a scenario/service).
     
  15. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    brakes key, maybe ;)
     
  16. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    I just tested the BR143 introduction. The "wait for main reservoir" prompt is in the wrong order since it occurs before the pantograph has been released. Actually (this may be vehicle dependent) raising the pantograph with the MR at 0 bar is a bit problematic. Usually you need to charge a help/auxiliary-reservoir with the battery and then raise it.

    Either way, in the game the MR won't charge without the pantograph raised and the MCB closed, which means that if you are waiting for the MR to charge before the locomotive is energized you'll be waiting a long time ;)
     
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  17. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I noticed this and thought it was a strange order of instruction. Nevertheless, I raised the pantograph and closed the MCB to let the brakes charge and the tutorial continued as expected.

    Cheers
     
  18. echeij

    echeij New Member

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    Is there any way to see if the traction lock is engaged in the cab without the HUD (other than "nothing happens")?

    When using the auxiliary control to start rolling, I still have to put the speed control in off - on - off - on before the traction lock disengages. Is that a bug as well?
    Also I noticed that the direct brake lever is exactly in front of the BC gauge when in the running position, while on the RSN BR143. It makes reading the brake gauge for 0.0 bars a little harder when not using the HUD... Is that positioning accurate?
     
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  19. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    Another option to speed up departure in the 143 is, just after you stop - apply the loco brake and release the train brake fully.

    When it's time to roll, you only need to take the loco brake off.. this brake releases a lot faster than the train brake does.

    My question is when driving the cab car with a 143 pushing at the back, is to know when we should shut off power, as it will keep on accelerating due to the slow throttle run down process on the lok. Don't real life FMS screens show the loco tap level in the cab car?
     
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  20. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    It did in RSN. While I‘m not sure if it does in real-life, it should be possible from a technical point of view since the 143 is capable of MU operations and thus can transmit what tap it‘s on.
     
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  21. behxistor#5313

    behxistor#5313 New Member

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    Is it just me or when i use the train brake to oblige to a speed limit, the loco won't accelerate again? I tried stopping it as i would in a station but it simply powerlocks.
     
  22. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Any expert on german traction, feel free to correct me.

    I believe it's normal procedure to stop with the train brakes released and apply the indipendent brake once you are stopped. If this procedure is followed traction lock won't be as much of a problem.



    I'd advise to at least release the train brake while stopped (the DoStos are braked automatically if there isn't door interlock) and use the indipendent brake, for some reason traction interlock will give you 1 (psi?) of play, so traction interlock won't activate with 0.9 B.C.



    In my opinion it could be realistic, here's why:

    Look at 3:46. The train brake is released just before the train is stopped to ensure a smooth stop and the indipendent holds the train. I can't see why it would different in any other loco hauled stock (BR143 included) (obviously doesn't work with the combined power/brake handle on the EMUs).

    Look at 4:15 how the train brake can be quickly released. The huge notch on the "Off" position is just not existent IRL.

    It makes sense that traction lock would prevent you from applying power until ALL the cars/wagons have the brakes released (not solely based on the loco's B.C.), to avoid putting excessive strain on couplers.

    Also this
    From that legendary thread
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
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  23. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    These methods might be necessary right now because the BR143 is bugged but when it is corrected to act prototypically they won’t be necessary.

    As long as doors are locked the traction lock only engages with 1.2 bar brake cylinder pressure with *either* train brake or locomotive brake. This means that you can even get traction with the train brake applied in the lowest step.
     
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  24. behxistor#5313

    behxistor#5313 New Member

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    I seem to have been doing it all wrong, but it doesn't explain why it doesn't powerlock if i stop at a station using train brakes only and go through all the passenger boarding/deboarding procedure, but if i use them to simply slow down for a lower speed limit it doesn't accelerate anymore
     
  25. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    [I've edited this because I don't like to have all these videos here for no reason]

    On various YT videos it could be seen how the Loco Brake was release before the indipendent brake, so I assumed it might have been something to do with the traction lock or normal operating procedure.

    I know those YT videos are far from ideal but sadly it's the only thing I can try to research not knowing german.

    I know you know this sort of stuff more than me, if you tell me you are sure that I'm wrong then, case closed. But I believe it might just be another quirk of the very odd BR143.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2021
  26. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    I think there is some miscommunication.

    I agree with your first statement in the last reply, the common recommendation is to stop the train with brakes released to provide a comfortable stop without jerking. I also agree that it is a good idea to apply the locomotive brakes when stopped at the station to prevent the train from rolling. This is especially important on older door systems like TB0 that don't have protection against rolling while doors are open.

    However, what I was disagreeing with was that these steps are necessary to prevent traction lock from engaging. For example, IRL there is no requirement for the brake cylinder pressure to be at 0 bar to get the traction lock to disengage. The threshold is 1.2 bar which allows the driver to start on a grade with locomotive brakes applied slightly (to prevent a roll-back).

    For the BR143 I've been very fortunate in that I both have the manuals for the three types (BR112,BR114 and BR143) and I've also corresponded with a BR143 driver to clarify any questions I had. This made it much more easy to advise/give feedback to DTG regarding what I thought they should fix etc.
     
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  27. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Got it now, sorry :( Hopefully gets fixed soon togheter with some other bugs (like the SIFA light) then. Thanks again
     
  28. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    No problem! I mean, you were pretty much right about everything, I just wanted to clarify that you don't need to wait for 0.9 bar or 0.0 bar etc, to get traction lock disengaged since 1.2 bar will do (when it is updated) :)
     
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  29. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    cwf.green, you‘re just a gift that keeps on giving. Thank you for all your input and insight!
    Same for you, FD1003, those videos are very interesting. I‘ve always had trouble finding cab rides with the control desk in sight.
     
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