Hello everyone, I’m finding that taking the BR 155 to 120km/h I’m finding it almost impossible to get to 70km/h when acknowledging PZB without triggering PZB or causing the train to come to a complete halt. This is particularly the case on HHR. What could I be doing wrong?
I use the calculation of braking weights and the total weight of the train. I determine PZB according to the braking percentage.
I usually take it a bit slower and go for max speed of 100 km/h with freight trains. 90 km/h even when it's pretty hilly. That way you can slow down in time.
Could be a number of things (that could be done better), some of which you might already be doing (but this list might help others anyway): - ensure the brake force lever is set to max on the DB BR 155, and be ready to deploy the brakes; - ensure you are braking with the train brakes (I sometimes miss this... ;-O); - start braking immediately when you see the caution signal (and be on the look out for it); - to make sighting easier run the service at night, or run in summer rain if you fancy a challenge.... But ultimately, if none of this ever works, then put PZB into Mode U (105kph max to 55kph in 38 seconds), which will give you more time, and requires 34% less kinetic energy to be scrubbed off compared to 125kph to 70 kph in much less time (29 seconds) - and every second counts. Also - if you are getting braked because of excessive speed profile on the approach to a speed limit, then make sure you get as much of your braking in the bag in the first 50% of the distance to the next speed restriction. Let us know the service details (an example), and I would be more than happy to run the fabulous DB BR 155 on the fabulous HRR and check it out for you.... ;-)
This, matjamca. For best braking results, the lever should either be at 100% for max electric brakes or at 0% so that the air brake can do the work. If you leave it 50% (default when starting a service), your braking will be slower compared to either 0% or 100%.
Thanks for this - that has given me something else to play with on this fab loco - I had never thought about 0% (rheo) brake force.....! I will go and have a jolly good tinker with that, and see what happens... ;-) Ah, the DB BR 155 makes me so happy....!
For reducing the speed while travelling somewhat fast-ish (let‘s say >40km/h), max electric brake (brake force selector at 100%) is much better. The loco brakes quite harshly - you‘ll really perceive it in cab when the electric brake kicks in. The quick release time of the electric brakes also helps for speeding up again. Once you‘re slower (<40km/h, but especially once <20km/h), the electric brakes loses its effect quite quickly. The sole use of air brakes is usually better (brake force selector at 0%). Note that the loco can adjust this for you. If you keep the selector lever at 100%, the loco will start using more and more air brakes when your speed drops. Putting the lever down to 0% yourself is more about doing it more efficiently and being prototypical. Tl;dr: Brake force selector at 100% brakes most efficiently.
Yes - this is a really good description of the relative effects, although I think it would be impossible to stop with just electric brakes, especially on a downhill gradient - I don't think it would be efficient enough at small values - even with rolling resistance, especially with a heavy train behind you (although maybe slightly better on an incredibly cold* or possibly wet day...?)....... *actually - if heat transfer to the environment has been modelled (ambient temp is available), then I think that would reallly make my day... ;-)
You shouldn't be doing 120 anyway, unless you are pulling empties or containers (which should be easy enough to slow down). All the German freight wagons in-game (aside from container flatcars) are limited to a Vmax of 100 km/h when loaded. And dropping from 100 to 70 isn't usually a problem at all.
Generally I use M only for empty trains, loaded wagons can't go past 100 km/h anyway. Generally empty trains are ~700t and 1.600t means a loaded train. Don't be fooled by the description of "fast freight service", it just means it's not one of the banking ones. Sources: You can find any information you need on the side of the freight wagons, for example: With a 1600t train, and a 123t loco, even if you had 30 cars it would mean the average car weight is 49t, that means it's a loaded train and the max speed is 100 km/h (INDIPENDENT FROM PZB! Just the freight car's max speed), so why not use PZB U if you are limited to 100km/h anyway?* S is used for standard max speed if loaded (100km/h), 120 only if the payload is 0t = empty. Apart from that you should put the brake selector to 100%, this means more dynamic braking if you are braking from high speed, as already explained by Lamplight Attached is a pdf explaining everything in more detail and with the load panel of every freight wagon used by DB, courtesy of breblimator *NOTICE: This is unrealistic
Sorry I didn't understand that properly, but it doesn't make sense, you have much more time to brake to 55km/h, that PZB mode is designed for heavier trains, it can be annoying if you have to acknowledge PZB for speed rescritions (for example on RSN). But unless DTG gives us the BrH for every train before departure, in my opinion using PZB U for loaded trains and PZB M for empty ones is the best approximation, anyway I'm open to hear other people, what is your threshold to use PZB U and how did you get to that?
The 155 never uses electric brakes alone. You‘ll have noticed that while the brake force lever adjusts how much electric brakes are used, the braking itself is still initiated with the driver‘s brake valve. Thus, even when the electric brake on the loco is hardly doing anything, the cars behind you still have their air brakes applied. You can check the brake pipe to see this. Basically, the 155 only has air brakes or blended braking - electric braking alone is not available. For other engines you‘d be right though. With traditional DC traction motors, stopping via electric brakes alone is not possible.
I just went through the PZB mode thread again, and I saw where you got the 1600t number from. Obviously, loaded train = PZB U, empty train = PZB M is not realistic, but as I said already it's a rough approximation I use in place of any correct method to calculate Brh, on trains that almost universally seem to brake unrealistically. On that same thread, calculating some BrH numbers using the available informations printed on the side of the rolling stock they got off the scale values, and calculating it by just braking from 100 km/h to 0 got us unrealistic values (brakes are universally too strong). Because of how the brakes are set up in TSW, as far as I understood, PZB M should be enough most of the time, with PZB U maybe being only useful on the RSN loaded coal trains. Since in my opinion it is not worth it to do any calculations at the start of the trip to get what is an unrealistic value, I'd much rather use an unrealistic method myself. Is the 1600t threshold better? Probabily, but my main take away from that thread was that PZB for freight is unrealistic anyway outside max speed, so there is still no better way to calculate a realistic BrH for our consists if I understood everything correctly.
Actually, there's not a lot of difference, assuming you mean braking from 100 to 70 under PZB mode M, and from 100 to 55 under PZB mode U. Within the time limits, you'd need to scrub off energy with a 4% higher rate overall, to get down to 55kph within the time allowed. However, since it takes a few seconds for the brakes to become effective across the train, this difference gets whittled down (in favour of the longer reaction time allowed under mode U) - so, if it takes four seconds or more for the braking to come on, then mode U (from 100kph to 55kph) actually becomes "easier" than mode O (from 100kph to 70kph.
Fair enough- but then you also have to factor in the time required to accelerate back to line speed/vmax afterwards. Up to, say, 80 from 70 is no big deal, up to 80 from 55 with a heavy freight is... time-consuming. And if 'surfing the yellows,' holding 70 will delay you less than holding 55.
Yes - you are right. This is broadly what I do (and/or aim for), although I try and chop and change stuff around, and experiment with different setups. This is one of the reasons why HRR is so superb - it has the traffic in all the right places, so that you can meaningfully try out different things. It would be fab to have something like the DB BR 101 subbed in to run freight on HRR - I'd love to see what it could do....!
That might be the case, but the BR 101 has qualities that make me want to test it out - it's at the frontier of simulation in TSW 2, and I'd like to know just how good the simulator really is, or can be. And then - maybe - fairly soon - TSW 2 might eclipse TS 2012, in terms of raw simulation. Although.... the DB BR 155 and the BR Class 101 are still the immersion kings for now.
I just wanted to thank you for creating this thread, and everyone that contributed to it. I have learned a great deal from this.... including a foray into the world of DB Schenker's wagon catalogue..... ;-) To report back - I tried setting the DB BR 155 brake force setting to 0% (following the dicussion with Lamplight), and running an Eastbound HHR freighter to a max speed of 100kph (with PZB mode M).... (following the advice from solicitr) to see what would happen.... LOL - don't do this (the braking force at 0% bit)....! It is not just that the braking response is slow to come on... it's also extremely slow to come off.... and other than situations where you need maybe the very lightest dab of braking.... you will want the electric brake force set high and ready to go.... or the air brakes will drag you to a stop long after you have released them. I kinda guessed this would happen - but what I did not expect was the scale of the missing braking contribution when the electric brake force is set to 0%..... it becomes harder to control than a Class 31 double-header with a loaded cement train on TVL.... ;-O So, as per previous thread - I would say 100% brake force by default, and only tweak it down to maintain a specific speed (more refined speed) on a downhill gradient... and in that situation be prepared to bring it back to 100% for any PZB, cautions, speed restrictions or stops. Thanks again, matjamca - this was really good fun...!
So... I tried the 182 on HRR. This is the RT based, TSW 2020 version of the 182.... and it makes for an interesting run (Eastbound or Westbound). To get it down from 160 kph (if you run in PZB Mode O)... you need to start braking the split second you see a caution a long way ahead of you (full service braking).... and if the next signal is red, you'll come to a rest with about one metre to spare. But if it is raining, then you can't see the signal soon enough, so you will SPAD.... (there isn't enough braking power). Although you'd think the Taurus is a bull... it seems to have quite the racehorese thing going on... ;-) I already knew I liked the HRR route (and obviously the 155), but really - this route is utterly awesome.
