Br Class 313 - The Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Cash, Oct 22, 2021.

  1. Cash

    Cash Active Member

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    I thought it would be cool to make a thread where everyone can leave their thoughts and feedback on the Class 313 loco add-on which is being streamed right now :D

    Let me know what you think of it so far! And any feedback you have :)
     
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  2. NickFarrant

    NickFarrant Active Member

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    Looks fantastic so far! A few little bugs to iron out but bring on release day. :D

    Very impressed with what I have seen on stream, thank you DTG.

    Regards,
    Nick
     
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  3. KMAN

    KMAN Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I enjoyed what I saw. Sounds good and I am happy with the Timetable Substitution.
    Look forward to release.
     
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  4. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I like what I see so far. Will wait for the launch stream to check they’ve sorted the sound occlusion, But after the disappointment of the DB 187, I’m probably going to get this.
     
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  5. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I don't have any complaints besides the little bugs that’ll probably be ironed out before the release. Overall, I'm impressed.
     
  6. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Looks good, but do the southern 313’s irl have door opening sounds- if so I can’t hear them in game
     
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  7. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    I join the others here, I like what I see, beautiful Train. I'm looking forward to Thursday.
     
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  8. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    They do have them in real life, they used to be generic ones (I think the same one as the 465s) but more recently they've been changed to the ones used on the Class 800s.
     
  9. Coastway trainspotter

    Coastway trainspotter Well-Known Member

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    Looks good , but there is no door opening sound in TSW , there is in real life
     
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  10. s0ggyflannel69

    s0ggyflannel69 Member

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  11. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I was impressed with what I saw but will reserve full judgement until I see the release version on Thursday.

    It’s disappointing the BR Blue special livery was not included and I’m frustrated that the 313 completely replaces the 377 on the Seaford branch. I’ve seen videos were both trains operate on the Seaford branch so having one or the other is a shame.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
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  12. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I turned the stream off because it sounded like the external sounds were playing inside the cab. I’d rather hear it as it would be in the release and as I can’t buy it yet anyway I thought there wasn’t much point watching any longer.
     
  13. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    I also forgot to add that we do not have enough set up time - 30 secs is not enough and it was a massive shame there was no bug blue, especially with how long this train took to make
     
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  14. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Surely that would be a pretty easy add for an artist at DTG, and could be dropped in the way the Trainbow livery is on SEHS.

    It would be simple enough to recreate our own livery, but we need more control on when custom liveries appear. Being able to assign a livery to one specific train number or a group of them would be ideal for situations like this.
     
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  15. bescot

    bescot Well-Known Member

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    I didn't see anything where Matt mentioned 'hand notching' of the controller, or did I miss this?

    It should be possible to stop the resistances cutting out in between power notches by returning to your previous lower power notch to keep the train at the current acceleration. Eg. You don't want all of the resistance removed (ie the acceleration) of the series notch, so you go to series, and back to shunt to prevent taking all the full power of series.

    This is the most interesting and best part of the camshaft controller, and stops the train jerking when you shut off from a high notch by planning ahead.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  16. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    The rationale behind the timetable duplication. I might be wrong but I couldn’t help but wonder whether it was so it didn’t cause console layering issues?

    Looks like an interesting train though. I’m not fussed about ECW but thinking it could be nice for a5th train on Brighton mainline.
     
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  17. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I thought that, rather than add in loads of extra trains and potentially over complicate things, the new timetable simply puts the 313 in the services it should be running.
     
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  18. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Matt opened the cab window in case you missed that part..., I enjoyed watching the stream, nice sound and nice visuals. Much impressed of what i saw.

    Day 1 purchais for me.

    No i wont start a thread now that toilet flushing sounds are missing.

    Add: by the way i like the gmsr radio is turning on and you can contact signaller, cool little feature.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  19. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    One of the reasons for the second Timetable is that the TSW2 Substitute System is unable to swap a four unit Train like the 377 with a three unit Train 313.

    Another reason could be, if DTG had simply completely replaced the 377 on the Seaford trips, we would probably have a result like on Arosa. A Train that is never on time
     
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  20. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it’s about time there was more buttons to press :cool:
     
  21. kevin.charb81

    kevin.charb81 Well-Known Member

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    How is progress on the new timetable counted towards overall progress on the route? (I.e complete 100 services achievement)
     
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  22. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I suspect 313 services will count as services for the route trophy set, but there will be a specific distance trophy (probably 313miles) in the 313 set. That's how it usually works.
     
  23. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Matt said that substitution between the 377 and the 313 is impossible, so, to make the 313 run where it runs IRL (Seaford and Lewes services), while leaving those services available to the 377 for who doesn't own the 313, they had to do another timetable.

    Matt said the reason why the 313 could not substitute a 377 is the different number of cars (377 has 4 cars, and the 313 has 3), and that's because substitution does not works like this:

    Take this train:
    [377Car1 + 377Car2 + 377Car3 + 377Car4]
    and instead of that spawn this train:
    [313Car1 + 313Car2 + 313Car3]

    Instead what it does is swapping the train on a car by car basis, so:

    377 Car1 --》313 Car1
    377 Car2 --》313 Car2
    377 Car3 --》313 Car3
    377 Car4 --》?????

    And that's probabily why the 423 is not on SKA, and the 425 is not on MSB.

    Given how limited this system is, I hope it will be overhauled in the future
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  24. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

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    Matt did open the cab window, but when he later tried to close it the sounds still didn’t change. He acknowledged there was an occlusion bug for cab sound in the build he was playing. So tune in to next week's stream if you want to hear the proper in cab sounds.
     
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  25. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    It looked great, I do like having many of the fuses working at the back for dynamic braking, door control, etc and a working guard's panel is always appreciated.

    I did notice that the station stop times were not rounded to the nearest 30 seconds, like most other routes are, which seems a bit strange. (I've not yet watched the entire stream so apologies if this was mentioned later.)
     
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  26. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you there. So disappointing to not have the BR Blue, hopefully modders will come to the rescue. The train is well done, not a fan of the livery hence why I miss the BR Blue, lol.

    I know there were problems with the sound especially when he opened the window and nothing happened. I did give out a big sigh though when the excuses started coming for why they didn't show it on the BML. If it had not of been broken the 313 would have been a great advert for the BML I just hope it doesn't take as long to fix the BML as it did to make the 313!
     
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  27. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Wait, why would that limit the 423 from being on SKA? It would just be a complete replacement for the 422 as the 423 is the only train (besides the 420) that runs there IRL.
     
  28. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    423 is branded in Munich s bahn
     
  29. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    That's the only reason I can come up with of why it was not done, I think Matt said that some EMUs while having X number of cars, sometimes are treated differently by the sim (I'd imagine the 422 and 423 could be one of these trains due to the jacobs bogies). But of course it's a deduction, not a fact.

    With all of the unrealistic trains around, do you think that's where they drew the line? I don't think so.

    I just want to remember you that HHL only came with DoStos that aren't actually used there, on RRO the DB BR422 does the Regional Express Talent 2 Services, the Class 465 does Thameslink Class 700 services, the BR155 operates on an a mainly international freight corridor, and we have a passenger BR182 locomotive fitted with PIS in the front doing freight services everywhere, I am not complaining, IMO gameplay can sometimes be in front of realism (within reason), and seems like DTG agrees with that, so it would seems strange to hold off that substitution, especially when they can make it like the 182 and set the % of spawning low enough that seeing one would be rare, so all the purists that prefer the actual wrong train with the correct livery compared to the right train with the wrong livery won't see it much, and making the other side happy as well. Everyone wins.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  30. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Have you considered the reason why SKA uses the 422 is because the 423 wasn't in the game when SKA was released?

    They're not Class 700 services - those services used to run with 465s and ran into Cannon Street (or Charing Cross one of the two). They have since been taken over (relatively recently) by Thameslink 700s though.
     
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  31. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    There are other examples of such thing happening though, I believe it was one of the british diesels, also all the BRD locos substitute the old ones, thanks for the informations about the Class 700 and 465, I understood that when the route is set (2019/20 given the Medway advertising) the amount of 465s was already pretty low.

    The only other reason (I just thought), is if somehow substitution was not "unilateral", so if the HMA 423 subs for the 422 on SKA, then the SKA 422 will sub on HMA as well (which is obviously not good). Given how basic the system already is I wouldn't be surprised, but for example the BR182 subs on HHL, but the 112 is not available on RT, so I don't think that's the case.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
  32. pendolino18

    pendolino18 Active Member

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    If I can remember the current ECW timetable correctly, there is 8 car 377 services that would probably still serve the Seaford branch in the 313 timetable. I'm sure one comes out of Brighton in the earky morning and runs all stations to Seaford and then works a London Victoria service which you can drive as far as Lewes.
    I believe it also does the reverse sometime in the evening where you can pick up the service from Lewes.
    As long as this is kept in the Seaford branch won't be completely void of 377's.
     
  33. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    UK railtours can have TVL 37s or NTP 45s, but you don't get the 45 on TVL or the 37 on NTP for example.

    I think the difference here is that those locos (don't know what the british loco you talk of is), is that their simply substituting with earlier implementations of themselves. The 422 and 423 are completely different trains.
     
  34. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    But it shouldn't matter, it's still a new train model substituting for an old one, and the fact there might be a problem with how the 422 and 423 in particular are built is what I stated earlier. Although I can't explain why the BML 377 is not available as a substitution for ECW. Maybe the BRD locos are the exception. I don't know
     
  35. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    And they could easily make it clear that it isn't standalone within the stream - in the stream title, call it the "East Coastway Class 313". Preface it with "You need East Coastway in order to use the 313", and maybe say that periodically whenever it's appropriate. If someone then thinks they don't need ECW, then frankly it's on them - it's like buying something based off an advert and then complaining about something that was clearly stated in the small-print - and this isn't even smallprint. 4/10; needs better excuse.

    I haven't watched the full thing, did they at least show what the BML services are?
     
  36. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    It all looks great to be honest, although I'm a bit disappointed that the BR Blue livery wasn't included on the one unit that runs it (given that unique liveries are clearly possible - eg. Trainbow).

    More than that, I wish they'd taken the opportunity when creating the new timetable for the 313 to finally add in the Victoria - Eastbourne/Ore 377 services as the eastern portion of the route is still only half-full, and presumably the issue with not having enough 377/4s would now be immaterial with the 313 timetable. I'd have really liked to see these included and it's frustrating that despite the lengthy development period these weren't included as it would have really rounded off ECW.

    Outside of that (and the bugs that I'm sure will be fixed on release), it looks excellent and I'm looking forward to driving it.
     
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  37. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    I’m just disappointed there is no door opening chimes
     
  38. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    SEHS is set in the middle of 2020, well after 700s took over the work.
     
  39. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I think they showed some services at the end of the video I can't remember, my concentration was wandering by then, lol. They kept repeating they wanted to concentrate on the ECW and show it in it's required route which made me chuckle as the real reason was that the BML is broken and I bet they would of loved to show it working on the BML.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they said "12" but in actual fact I think there were four, because in timetable mode if the train changes ends then its "a different service" (Matt says that if they don't do this then avatars and lights end up at he wrong end (which does beg questions as to how such things are programmed))
    One of the "services" is literally marked as 1 minute long...
     
  41. NickFarrant

    NickFarrant Active Member

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    Image taken from the livestream, thanks to DTG.

    Here is a few I spotted on stream.

    Capture.PNG
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2021
  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    1:03:39 onwards on the stream
     
  43. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah this is seen on Cathcart - I don't understand how it's happened tbh. You see 314s coming into Glasgow from the depot with tail lights on the front.
     
  44. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I think that service would be interesting tbh. It'd be nice to see it, or part of it, on the release stream.
     
  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Oh, you can tell how it's happened
    Trains have been assigned an A end and a B end
    In the scenario settings the driver's starting position has been set and the lights and so on are linked to this setting
    If the driver has to change ends this setting doesn't migrate with the driver

    So you end up in a position where a train may need to drive "B end first" from a depot onto platform, then change ends and drive "A end first" for the remainder of the route. This would end up with the train driving effectively backwards out of depot with the driver at the wrong end and the lights back to front (or all lights on as seen in the Boston preview)

    I guess it's easier to program it that way than figure out a method of saying "The AI will drive backwards here, but because they're shunting they should only have yard markers on" which is what would generally happen IRL
     
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  46. dubsox

    dubsox Member

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    No flange sounds is a huge deal breaker for me, it completely kills immersion. This is also an issue with the 377 on BML. Please fix this DTG.
     
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  47. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    Is there a way to turn off the constant annoying fan sounds as constantly drowns motors out compared to class 314 in Cathcart circle
     
  48. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    The lights are a bit annoying the way they clip in as the train approaches then go out immediately as the train moves away from the player.
     
  49. Fitz

    Fitz Well-Known Member

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    For me, the physics model of the 313 has changed since it first launched and not in a good way. When starting off in notch one the train basically launches itself. I enjoy driving it other than that, and I find it a challenge to keep it as a set speed going up hill with how the power have to be adjusted compared to other units.
     
  50. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    Not that I'm aware of. 313s work very differently to 314s and likely a good reason why they're needed.
     
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