1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Br101 Brakes Question

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by colinL, Apr 23, 2021.

  1. colinL

    colinL Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2020
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    131
    Hi all,

    really enjoying the loco so far. But I'm a little confused with the brakes. So, when I do a timetable run and want to leave the station I spawned at, the brakes seem to be kinda stuck? Of course I activate the brake levers with the key and I also release the brakes obviously. The loco wants to go and adds power but it seems to be held back. Is that because the brakes of the passenger cars do need more time to release? As far as I know the brake gauges in the cab only really show the brake status of the locomotive itself, so this could be a possibility? Another thing is, what I do/did when I drove the BR101 from virtualRailroads in Train Simulator: when coming to a full stop at a station and waiting for the passengers to board I apply the loco-only brake a little bit while releasing the train brake to leave the station faster. (So I don't have to wait for the brakes to release on all the cars, like mentioned earlier). And I can't really do that in TSW2. It seems like while the loco is on a standstill and the doors are opened, brake applied and throttle lever at 0/off I can apply the loco-only brake however I like and the brakepressure stays the same, or better said there's no indicator that said loco-only brakes are applied. What I noticed corresponding to this is, that when leaving the station and the brake levers are released, the brakes actually first release when you start easing in the throttle. Is that supposed to be? Shouldn't the brakes release as soon as I release the levers? I hope its understandable what I want to say :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    593
    Check out the "BR 101 Bugs and Errors List"-thread, the locomotive automatically applies full service pressure when the train is stopped/very slowly moving. To get the holding brake to release you need to apply pressure (around 15-20% I think).

    Not sure what the real life procedure is but I know on many trains you would apply the train brakes as well (1 bar reduction typically) when stopped at a station.

    When starting the train what I do is:

    1. Release air brakes
    2. Apply around 20% power and wait for the train to start moving. This should stretch out the train and prevent any uncomfortable jerk for the passengers (I know EU trains have much less slack than for example NA couplers but there is still some slack and I know from talking to drivers that it is rare for them to immediately slam the throttle into full power).
    3. Apply more power (50%-75% or whatever is less than available friction)

    I'm sure you can go immediately into 50% + power since the locomotive slowly applies traction automatically, not sure if there are any real life recommendations about this.
     
  3. colinL

    colinL Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2020
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    131
    Weird. I mean I can only reference my experience with the virtualRailroads BR101 so far, and I deem that one to be quite realistic and I'm certainly sure, that it didn't automatically apply full service pressure when standing still. The other "bug" I encounter where the train has problems to start moving, I'd say is because the passenger cars still have brake pressure applied. But thats where the automatical full service pressure starts to get irritating. Thats what I did when driving the vR in TS. At a standstill after braking release the train brake but also apply the loco-only brake so it acts as a kind of handbrake. When driving out of the station I simply released the loco only and got going, without having to wait the whole train brakes to bleed the air.
    Oh well, probably a user error from my side.
     
  4. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2020
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    127

    As a real driver i can answer directly at the second question. When you stop at station, before de stop, set the brake staff around 3, than reduce it to 1 just a second before the conplete stop of the train, than, when the train is full stopped you can set the brake for all train at 3/4 and not just for the loco, for sefety. Than when you activate the close door procedure you can release the train brake and during this time. And after a second you can give a bit of power to start move the train.
    For the first question it is a game bug. Only the EMUs train haven't it. Normally this happen to train that directly spawn (when you choose a timetable service) and yes you need to wait that the loco need to push or move one coach at time. If see, this happen only at the first start and if you use a br185 for freight it is the same. In real life this effect always happen expetially on freight but it is less stronger than the game. So it is normal don't worry. Just be a little gentle at the start. However just to ensure you, with normal passenger services normally up to 5 minutes it is not see as a delay, so take your time.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 6
    • Like Like x 2
  5. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    593
    I think I noticed this "bug" that you mentioned now when doing some testing with the BR101 in scenario planner. Sometimes when starting the train for the first time, if I apply around 20% power to get the train to move/holding brake to release the locomotive the sound of the train beginning to roll (the whining sound) will play several times and the power meter will cycle up and down between 5 kN/FM - 10 kn/FM a few times and then finally the train starts rolling for real. I tried pressing the "release brake" button and it seemed to shorten this process but that could've been a placebo effect :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. colinL

    colinL Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2020
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    131
    Yeah that's also kinda what I wanted to describe. I mean I get the procedure of applying the train brakes while stopping/standing, but if the train/loco automatically applies full brakes as soon as it stands, rendering the train brake lever useless, I can't really "pre-release" the brakes before setting off again? Thats where the problem is, if you ask me. As far as I know, with other locos in the game you can still change the brake settings while standing still however you like.
     
  7. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    593
    "I can't really "pre-release" the brakes before setting off again? Thats where the problem is, if you ask me." You'd have to talk to Adtranz for that ;)

    "As far as I know, with other locos in the game you can still change the brake settings while standing still however you like."
    Well different locomotives behave differently. Not sure what to tell you.

    I can see that there would be a problem with the bug I described (loco not taking power for like 20+ second), but I think that issue might be hard to solve since I've experienced something similar in TS2021 on older VR expertline locos. Even some DTG TSW2 trains experience it and usually it is solved by restarting the service or in the case of the BR101 it seemed to work when I turn off the power and turned it on again (circuit breaker + panto down then reboot).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    3,230
    Yes, this always works :) hehe

    PS Plus - try to reset the throttle - do not go for 50% or something but 100% -> IDLE -> 'something' :)
    Still - looks buged sometimes. Not a big deal.
     
  9. colinL

    colinL Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2020
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    131
    Ok well imma take it as its supposed to be that the 101 applies FSP by itself when standing still. Like I said, likely a user error by me, as I'm far from being an expert train driver :D
     
  10. colinL

    colinL Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2020
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    131
    Hi all, I've just now discovered, that the "problem" that the loco applies FSP on a standstill is because of the AFB. Without AFB the brakes work as I expect on a standstill, as soon as you activate AFB however, the train automatically applies full brakes when standing still. So without AFB everything works as I'd expect it to work. Is that realistic like that, or is that a bug? Notably no other loco does this afaik.
     
  11. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    1,361
    That is prototypical behaviour of a BR101. AFB gets full control over the loco brake (it does not use the Federspeicherbremse, what you mean is the loco brake). So you can't release the loco brake when AFB is activated and you are at a stop. It is overridden by AFB.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 4
    • Like Like x 3
  12. colinL

    colinL Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2020
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    131
    Ok, but that in turn means, that I can release the Train Brake/Federspeicherbremse to 1A to already pre-release the brakes of the passenger cars and AFB only applies the loco brake fully?
     
  13. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    593
    You can release train brake during door closing sequence so that only loco brake is applied after doors have closed, then when you apply power AFB will release the loco brake.

    Or you could release train brakes before you close the doors, but question is why? I got gold stars on all timetable runs quite easily even if I left the station 10s late sometimes ;)
     
  14. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    402
    Likes Received:
    1,361
    AFB only uses the loco brake for the holding application, not the main air brake. So yes, you can release the wagons brakes with the normal brake lever. It will not being displayd anywhere. You just need to know it. The cylinder pressure gauges are only for the loco.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  15. colinL

    colinL Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2020
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    131
    was just an out of curiosity thing. But I've seen from many cabride videos that they usually apply the loco only brake at stations and release the train brake to a bare minimum. I guess its to save time when leaving the stations to not wait until the brakes are released from FSP.
     
  16. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    431
    Likes Received:
    593
    You've seen this in BR101 specifically?
     
  17. colinL

    colinL Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2020
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    131
    No, in other locos. But they don't apply FSP when the AFB is activated, so theres that.
     

Share This Page