With the BR101, when leaving the LZB, the power lever must first be set to zero and then the AFB lever must be set to zero. In the real path, when leaving the LZB, there is only a compulsory zero setting for the AFB lever.
My pattern is: throttle to zero for not to accelerate... ... because of AFB to OFF for not to slow down... ... because of AFB lever to zero This is "the Matt way" to do this So, as You are suggesting, the IRL procedure is just "fast" AFB lever position resetting?
The LZB end procedure When the end of the LZB is approaching, the LZB end indicator starts to flash. The engine driver has 10 seconds to acknowledge with the PZB release button, otherwise the v-Soll runs down to 0 km / h. After the acknowledgment, the detector changes to permanent light. The signals on the route must now be observed again. During the transition to signal-controlled operation, the "Ü" and "LZB-Ende" detectors go out and the PZB detectors light up again. For locomotives with AFB, the AFB speed regulator must be set to zero (since this was usually at maximum speed during LZB operation and a lower speed may now apply), otherwise no tractive effort will be generated.
Yes. For anyone interested, we‘ve had this discussion a few weeks ago in another thread. In real life, AFB doesn‘t react to any input for ~5 seconds after hitting the end of LZB (when Ende is flashing) (Edit: See posts below for corrections on this. I was way too tired when writing this). This is purposefully built into the system so that you can slam the AFB lever to 0 km/h (and thus resetting AFB as LZB Ende requires) without slamming on the brakes. Note that this is not simulated in TSW. In TSW, you will slam on the brakes doing the real life procedure.
I remember that discussion, but I am not 100% sure about these 5 seconds. I think, there is more time between LZB Ende confirmation and the physical end of the section **, but this sounds logical EDIT ** And before that, you can't reset AFB because LZB still has control of the train. I will check it in ZUSI.
Yeah, I‘m a bit fuzzy about the time as well. The bottom line is that AFB is deaf to any inputs for a short time after hitting the end of LZB. I‘ll see if I can dig up the source on this again.
This was my post in which I state my source (a train driver on the Zusi forum): All they said was a few seconds after. So take the 5 seconds I stated with a grain of salt. That was probably just an estimate on my part.
Sorry, didn‘t see your edit before. You are correct. As I said myself in that old post, AFB being deaf happens when PZB control is re-established, not when LZB Ende is flashing. Edit: I shouldn‘t be writing about these things so late in the evening
But I thank you for the lesson So it's almost good in TSW. Only this throttle, as Eugenio mentioned in the first post. With this: All the info is complete. Wunderbar \o/
Let me see if I can summarise my understanding: I'm cruising under LZB, i've got 320kmh dialled into AFB and throttle to max. Under LZB control, i'm doing 160km/h. At this point - AFB will work as normal. I get the ENDE alarm. At this point - AFB will still work as normal. I acknowledge the ENDE alarm. At this point - AFB will still work as normal. I get to the end of LZB and PZB reactivates. At this point, AFB has gone "deaf" and will respond to no movements of the lever for say 5 seconds - throttle will also be ignored, the train essentially continuing "as is" during this period. If during this period, I set it to zero, then once I move it back to a positive setting after a moment of resting the lever, it will activate and begin following that command. If I do NOT move the AFB during its "deaf" period, after say 5 seconds, it will re-activate but begin braking the train to a stand still until I move the lever to zero and back up to a positive setting again, at which point a moment after resting the lever, it will begin to adopt the new speed, release brakes and begin to dial in power. Is that correct?
My understanding is similar, but In my opinion, there will be no tractive effort provided until reset but without penalty braking.
My speech will probably sound stupid. But what's the point of being so fiscal? Do we lose tenths of a second and don't finish first at the station, like in a Grand Prix? I have seen several videos of real cabride where the AFB is often activated (for the first time) when the train is already running. Going back to the LZB, I personally am not and don't like being so procedural. I simply know that I have 10 seconds to signal ENDE (freeing the PZB) and of course I always arrive at this stage with the throttle set to 0. Then, very calmly, first I close the AFB switch and then bring the AFB lever on 0. I could also continue without reactivating the AFB, it depends on how far the next stop is. Often, as the ENDE lights up, I release the PZB and close the AFB switch (and AFB lever to 0) without even waiting for the system to switch from LZB to PZB. If I later wanted to reactivate the AFB, I would set the lever to max and then activate the AFB switch. (obviously always with the throttle to 0, and always after the system transation [LZB end -> PZB start]). Lastly, in order not to risk overpeed, I usually always keep 5-10km/h below the maximum speed indicated. There's no need to rush to the limit if you're not driving a commuter/metropolitan train.
I'm not sure whether there's an emergency brake application if you don't move the lever, but otherwise, I agree with your summary. I think you just lose all tractive effort which seems to be supported by what breblimator found in the Zusi manual. Would you agree with that breblimator, or did I get that wrong? The point is simply to make TSW as realistic as is feasible. It's not about any time loss, it's just about being prototypical.
I didnt mean an emergency brake application, I was more meaning that AFB would simply target itself to 0 and bring the train to a stop at its normal deceleration rate on the basis that the driver has clearly misunderstood something at this point and might need a wakeup call to remind them to take action. As far as improving the process - it's not about tenths of milliseconds or anything like that, i've always felt that the AFB process for coming out of LZB seemed really quite clunky and this just confirms that the reality is that it ought to be as simple as "afb to zero, afb back to where it should be" and not one step more. That feels MUCH more elegant and much more how I would naturally expect a German train to be operated.
In my opinion, the train will not be able to accelerate and this is the only consequence of the lack of "reset". BR o7 PS Digression: 101 is great and if you plan to add splendor to it **, even more, I would be very precise. Of course, the ZUSI manual is not an oracle. ** in principle, this applies to all LZB equipped trains (BR 182 too & an interesting 112 case)
I know that in the BR 101 Expert, the method of AFB reset it prototypical... havent played original 101 for some time, but I remember it being prototypical as well - after releasing from LZB, throttle to zero (optional), AFB to zero, then to desired speed, reapplying power... I guess today when I get back to work I will try
Ok, I know this is an old thread but I started digging through a manual that I have (OBB 1116) and found some cool stuff about AFB that may or may not be relevant to a BR 101. Please excuse the translations as the original is Czech and it's also pretty strangely written. Manual intervention during AFB operation After applying the indirect brake or E-brake, the speed regulation of the train will be taken over by the driver and the AFB will become ineffective (won't apply any power or brake). After release, the driver must confirm AFB by setting the throttle to 0. AFB operation with PZB 90 Active speed control of PZB 90 is taken over by AFB as the desired target speed. For example during the starting program (monitoring), the desired AFB speed is internally limited to 41 km/h. AFB operation under LZB and LZB exit procedure When exiting LZB, the AFB must be confirmed at most 5 seconds after the end of the LZB data transfer (after symbology disappears?) by setting the speed regulation lever to 0. If the confirmation is not done, the traction lock will initiate (no mention of emergency braking) and an error will be reported. Especially the PZB coupling seems interesting as I never heard about it before.
sad thing about 1116 in TSW is that the AFB reset procedure there is not prototypical, even though the model is based on BR 182 DB/MRCE, of which both had this aspect right
