Br187=sounds Of 185

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by KoeleKoen, Oct 13, 2021.

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  1. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    That's a pity. I was looking forward to it but as stated before for that price there needs to be more to it than reused sounds which make my dog go crazy when listening to them...
    As a customer I'd expect this in an arcade game and more or less happily pay the 1.99 for it but TSW is usually something different (and despite all moanings most of the time better).
    As I don't have any hopes this will get patched anytime at all considering the effort needed the 187 could easily be a no brainer... just not in the intended way...
    I made the mistake of buying the 204 once and even if Skyhook is not responsible for it I don't want to make the same mistake twice. :(
     
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  2. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    The PlayStation stream is already the Release version and not an early build
     
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  3. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    With DTG knowing the community quite well I would've assumed they’d have gone to Skyhook and told them that we would be happy about this or to push back the release or something. This isn't something like the 1972 stock where the sounds are inaccurate but not too far off to where it's unrecognisable, THIS is just atrocious. You shouldn't consider making a train you know recording accurate sounds is gonna be an issue.
     
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  4. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I can't recognise engines from each other. I heard the sound of this engine and I would not even know it's copied. For me it sounds like a loco. But I'm not gonna buy this one although the sound does not bother me at all. But I noticed with other loco's that the sound is sometimes ridiculously poor quality. You just hear it's a loop and that's unacceptable. So if this sound is already upsetting so many people that can tell the difference between engines I know I'll probably get upset by other sound effects like wipers that don't sync with the audio in all wiper modes or doors that have no ambience sound when you open them. Not saying that is the case here, but would not be surprised.
     
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  5. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    This.

    They didn't even try to make the right sounds, they just took something out of a similar-ish loco, that was so bad at that time it gave you headache. This aren't even the new 146 sounds.

    I prefer right mediocre sounds over wrong good sounds (in this case there are wrong bad sounds)
    So you could put the HST sound into a 37, i mean at the end of the day its still a diesel, it'll do......
     
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  6. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree. However it is very much the way of going about it. Those "people" we refer to (some are in this thread) make nothing better for anyone, instead creating a negative and toxic atmosphere.

    Constructive, informative feedback is the way things work.
     
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  7. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    And what makes it worse is that they definitely knew this is the type of reaction they’d get but they just don't care!
     
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  8. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid that as long as DTG maintains this policy of fixed and unchangeable prices we will continue to have these mediocre qualities. It is really difficult for third party developers to be working long hours on material that is going to yield them little profit. The numbers don't add up, it's as simple as that and you have to understand that because a business is about making money.

    Maik Goltz has sometimes talked about this openly. Now, can anyone imagine a TSG dlc with the atrocious sound of this 187?
    I can't. And the problem is that good developers like him, who are professional and perfectionist about their work have an uncertain future in TSW because the amount of hours needed to make a quality product are not adequately rewarded by the low prices. And nobody likes to work for free.

    When he got involved in BR 101 he put in more hours than he was paid for. You can do this sometimes, but not always. And I'm sure when we see (and hear) his next works we will appreciate the hours behind it, especially if we compare it to things like this 187. Will it be profitable? Well, that's something he'll have to assess, but if it's not, he might have to stop.

    I wouldn't want that. I would pay more for the BR 101 and I won't pay anything for this BR 187. I think DTG will one day have to discuss this internally and poll the customers.

    I would like to know if we can continue to enjoy things like the 101 or be condemned to suffer things like the 187.
     
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  9. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to ""defend"" Skyhook, but I really want to say something in their favour since they got a lot of flak, with a lot of people saying that the 187 is just trash because of the sounds.

    From the Australian stream I noticed that Skyhook actually seemed to have invested and innovated a lot, especially on the screens and the cab, which IMO is the n.1 thing (even before sounds).

    Even the magnificent BR101 has the stock TRAXX displays, and I applaud Skyhook for not taking the lazy way and copy/pasting the displays, I'd rather have better and not recycled displays than the 100% correct sounds if that's too much for Skyhook to develop. And for that reason I wouldn't have minded if they used the current Traxx sounds.

    The thing that beggars belief is that they used the old sounds which got broken in the process of being converted from TSW2020 to TSW2 (In fact the TRAXXes sounded better on TSW2020 before they got fixed).

    "All they had to do" was copy/paste a different set of files, and I really feel for them, it was so close to being (at least) acceptable, and it probabily wasn't their fault since the new TRAXX sounds probabily didn't exist when they developed the sounds for the 187, since the 187 has been on the roadmap for ages.

    The lack of will to replace the sounds with the current ones is really the only thing that upsets me, I don't think it would require a complete recreations of the sounds, even if it did, they still had the BR185 as a template. And I really really hope Skyhook does this because I badly want this loco and I also want to support their decision of focusing on other areas which we haven't really seen being developed, but the old sounds are just unbearable, and means that driving this loco would be straight up a bad experience.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
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  10. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I'll be buying at midnight. Always like a little more variety, and it subs-in on a bunch of german routes. The incorrect sounds won't bother me as I don't have any experience with them in real life.
     
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  11. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Who do you want to replace if more DB BR182 MRCE BR182 ES64U2 Taurus locomotives then RSSLO you get BR183 Austria ÖBB1216 SZ541. Then followed by Reskinned DB BR182 ÖBB1116 & 1016.
    In the case of DB BR187 you have a female voice saying störung unlike DB BR146.2 & 185 male

    36 minutes into this one it's also a female voice for Sifa acknowledge PZB something that Skyhook games really needs to know.

    They did it correctly it would be DB BR187 and 182 which uses ÖBB announcer Chris Lohner for PZB LZB Sifa Zwangsbremsung for those.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
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  12. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    We need a answer about this huge Game Breaking issue with the completely wrong sound please.
    It’s not Acceptable.
     
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  13. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    I think you are very exaggerating the issue. Its not gamebreaking. Dont make a storm out of wind.
     
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  14. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    If you’re German you want understand how Game Breaking wrong Sounds are like the 187.
    Plus it’s a broken sound from the 146/185 from Main Spessart Bahn to get Headache and Tinitus while playing.
     
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  15. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Wow what a toxic thread this is, its not even released and people are calling for blood.

    Its a wonder why anyone even bothers making any release for TSW if this is how the community reacts to a minor issue. AND yes a loco sounding like a different loco to the one its meant to be is a minor issue not a gamebreaking problem worthy of this kneejerk response.

    Id be interest in knowing how many of these keyboard warriors have even heard a 187 in real life in the flesh, rather than relying solely on youtube videos.
     
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  16. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I would love to see it as you do and really enjoy it. But driving a train that sounds like a blender and also without any track sound effects as if it were floating totally breaks the experience for me and prevents me from enjoying it.
     
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  17. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    I know both the 147 and 187 from real life pretty well, same with a 146 or a Desiro HC.
     
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  18. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Gosh, some people here really don't know what costructive feedback means. I guess some here would probably take the pitchfork and push the Skyhook dev team ofter a cliff. Literally. This is not just sad to read. It's kinda scary. I really wouldn't want to meet some of you in real life. But most poeple here are indeed very contructive! And that's the main thing :)

    So I try to be a little bit more constructive:

    First of all, I am acutally a quiet forgiving person. I can ignore bugs, as long as they don't break the game. Like the "Stuttgart" word on the side of the 187 which is clearly wrong. The 147 locos "live" in Stuttgart, the 187 do not. But okay, i can live with that. No problem at all.

    I actually bought every german DLC. Every. But this one will be the first I won't buy (or drive some kilometres to then ask for a refund). I understand it is very hard to get the right sound recordings. It's a hell of a job. But then there is still the way to recreate it. Yeah, it will not be nearly as good as the original (looking at you, BR 182), but it would be accetable. As long as I don't get a headache (*cough* old BR 146.2 from MSB). But then reusing the sounds of the 185.5? And then not even the "good" sound from DRA, but the not so good one from RSN? Okay that's reeeeally a no go.

    But you know, Skyhook, what is even worse? Not communicating something this big. Everyone at Skyhook was for sure 100% aware that the sound are not even just bad, but literally wrong. How could you not communicate something like that? Because at this point I can't help but think that Skyhook either doesn't care at all about this DLC (which contradicts every logical reasoning) or they wanted to fool us and be like "Oh hopefully they don't realise this". But really? A train simulation community? A SIMULATION where sound is literally one of the most important things? That's really shameful if this is the rationale. I hope Sam can explain tomorrow what his understanding of things is. And how to make sure that something like this isn't going to happen again. And maybe if a sound patch is planned. Because then I'll get this loco (even if it just sounds a bit like the real 187), when the patch is out.

    Whatever reason is behind this is one side of the story. The other side is: The lack of communication of SHG. There are many ways to do so. On live streams, on Dovetail Live. Even on their own twitter, their website or their facebook page. But this is beyond disappointing. And this from someone, who literally buys anything where it says "DB". Well, seems like this time not.
     
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  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    If the COVID-19 pandemic is over Skyhook Games should go to Betriebswerk Ludwigshafen Rbf Mannheim and the Rhein-Ruhr Osten Ruhr-Sieg Nord Rangierbanhof Hagen Vorhalle since those have DB BR187s assigned to them. That way copy and pasting sounds from DB BR 185.2 can be prevented and get the correct sounds for DB BR187 possibly DB BR 147.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  20. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Youve hit the nail on the head there, IF the pandemic is over, its not and getting access to record quality recordings of a loco in another country has darn near impossible until very recently.
     
  21. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    That is not as easy as it sounds like. You can't just walk in there and record sound. Often it is not even possible to do at all. This is Germany not UK.
     
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  22. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Yeah as unhappy I am with these sounds I am not gonna participate in any discussion about this anymore. Some certain individuals have dragged this whole discussion down the drain, where I do not want to be involved anymore. What a shame that simple manners and etiquette for forums and human interaction are forgotten in childish shoutings of random words they seem to not even know the meaning of and inadequate outrage.
    I will silently wait for either an official fix or a mod by a talented community member. Hopefully people can filter these individuals out for themselves and ignore them like an annoying radio in the background.
     
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  23. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    How got RSSLO the 187 sound to nailed absolutely Perfect for Train Simulator for over 3 years?
    They should ask Maik or RSSLO to get there sounds for paying some money.
     
  24. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    You are right. In fact, I don't understand why car game developers bother to record the sound of Ferrari, Porsche or Lamborghini engines to play them in their games. Hardly any gamer is ever going to hear a real one except for YouTube videos.
    They could use a Dacia or a Kia, I don't think anyone would notice!
     
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  25. facundo.dim

    facundo.dim Member

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    I'm not German but it's a matter of security. How do they know if you are not a terrorist or something. I don't think you make some calls saying "hey, can I go to record some high quality sounds, just let me enter the cab for a few hours".

    Personally, I'll buy it, I don't care too much about the sound. Besides, it's too cheap in my country, like 1.15 dollars, cheaper than a pack of Camel cigarettes that can cause me cancer.
     
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  26. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Well, hopefully, DTG and Skyhook will get everyone’s message, when no one buys this DLC then, right?

    Of course not, as usual empty words from the usual few on here, that will still end up buying it anyway.

    I’m not doing the old “Don’t like it, don’t buy it” by the way.

    But if opinion is so strong, then show DTG and Skyhook with your wallet and not empty words from behind a keyboard.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
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  27. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I see thanks :)
     
  28. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Well as someone who has heard all examples of all 3 of those car manufactures in flesh at various racing events I can assure very few Youtube videos capture the sound of any them with any form of accuracy!!

    A far better analogy would be to say using the engine sound from a Ferrari 812Superfast in a model of a Ferrari 812GTS.
     
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  29. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the mods can do any kind of justice to this. I think it is impossible to fully implement the correct sounds without the official editor. You can change a horn and wiper sounds etc quiet easily (of course, I couldn't even do this, but other here can). But the whole loco sound? I don't think we should trust so much into "the community will fix this". I guess this is a step too far away for the community even to be able to fix it. But of course maybe someone can do it. Let's see.
     
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  30. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    There are already a good amount of sound mods that do change the whole sound of locos/EMUs and DMUs, so regarding the question "is it possible" it should be fine. But given that the mixing of the old 146 was atrocious after the import to TSW2, maybe that is work on a whole new level. I know absolutely zero about the process and thus I will just occasionally check the mod page in the future and who knows, maybe we are lucky and someone puts in the effort. That is, given that they have recordings in the first place.
     
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  31. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    This. This entire message is great but this is it! Same from me though. Sadly...
     
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  32. VolvoB10M

    VolvoB10M Member

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    As far as I know, the 185 and 187 are the same with the exception the 187 has the ability to run NS in addition. If this is the case I don't see the need to record new sounds for something that doesn't sound any different. I still have an entire game that is unusable as SHG are still working on controller compatibility and recording new sounds for a similar locomotive would take time that could be used for making something else playable outside of only Xbox and Logitech support.

    Edit: I have come to the understanding there is different VVVF-IGBT equipment or programming with the latest generation of Bombardier Traxx so this statement is irrelevant as they do sound different.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  33. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    No one shouldn't. But... just look at the community and the state some things are released.
     
  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Drama-queen much?
     
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  35. bence950906

    bence950906 New Member

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    I hope we will get some answers on the whole issue during tomorrow stream.
     
  36. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    This breaks immersion, yes. But it' s not game-breaking
     
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  37. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Then your findings are not good. They are quite different in lots of aspects. Not only sound. A 185 is basically 20 years older than the 187. The more predecessor for a 187 is the 186, the last series. And even they are quite different to a 185.
     
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  38. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I Really have no problem to pay a higher price for 3rd party. As long the quality is good.

    I also dont expect a perfect dlc, but if you get the train sounds wrong in your specific train dlc, that clearly lacks of passion.
    I mean the traxx ts not like an 38 stock running nowhere anymore.

    Lets hope skyhook performs a learning curve, even if they clearly underestimate their customerbase willing to pay.
     
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  39. VolvoB10M

    VolvoB10M Member

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    How am I supposed to hear them as I am not in Europe and where am I supposed to find anything different as I don't work for Bombardier?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  40. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I'm somewhat concerned at the wording here: "IF the COVID-19 pandemic is over" erm... It's very much still going on chief.

    Talk about exaggerating...

    Yeah, granted, it's not a good thing when the sounds of a train you have an interest in are horribly wrong, yeah, granted, Skyhook should probably consider trying to do something - IF they can do something.

    But things like this, the exaggeration, the constant (from you anyway) un-constructive, unhelpful, rude (to Devs usually), and bringing a small air of negativity to threads such as this (in fairness, this thread is just going to get worse thanks to numerous factors), it's borderline just trolling.
     
  41. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. But then again, it was you who made a claim you didn’t know anything about. Maik just pointed out the reality.

    and it’s ok if it doesn’t bother you, it does bother quite a lot of others, though…
     
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  42. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I can understand that they can't record the real sound now. But more can always be done. Have you tried to acquire these sounds from a third party? Maybe they couldn't either, or didn't want to. But in that case, at least use a good sound mix, even if it's from another locomotive. Give us also good and loud track sounds, they are the most differentiating thing in the railway world. These trains make noise, and even more so when they are freight trains. I don't know, give us something that tries to make up for the real sound.

    But don't give me this insult to the ears. If you're a developer of a train game, I imagine you're passionate about trains, or at least you like them. And I wonder how someone who loves trains can listen to this and say: "OK, let's release it like this"? I really can't understand it.

    I think the criticism is justified here,
    Skyhook won't expect us to applaud them for this. On the German forums they're not exactly thrilled either from what I've seen with this locomotive from their country for the sounds.

    And it's a shame that the work they've done on the model, which is very well done, is being diluted by this. They have even opened the engine room, which I think is fantastic.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  43. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the answer Maik and I'm wondering how it's done because DB BR187 Traxx 3 has different sounds including a cab voice prompt for PZB Sifa Lzb?
     
  44. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    LOL Baden-Wurttemburg :D
    It’s called Baden-Württemberg and DB Regio AG is also wrong because it’s not a 147 EF4359F6-03AB-4290-9499-96465A2CD156.jpeg
     
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  45. 1003523721

    1003523721 Member

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    Sound takes an important part in this game for me. No real sound, no purchase.
    Maybe someone will say how hard the work of sound recording it is, I understand but this is none of my business. It's you that make the decision to publish this DLC and you have the obligation to make it right. And after one year since BR187 was added to Roadmap, you just simply reuse the sound of BR185???????? ARE YOU SERIOUS?????
    I am not surprised that Skyhook is another one Rivert Games.

    Seeing what some 3rd Party have done in the past, I think DTG should make a explanation on what is the standard for 3rd Party's DLC and how will they keep their work fixed and updated.
    I haven't buy any 3rd Party's DLC up to now yet. I won't change my mind if they keep publishing anything like this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  46. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    The correct writing Should be
    DB Rallion Hagen Vorhalle or DB Rallion Rbf Mannheim. Since this is Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen it should be Köln Hansaring or Köln Deutz
     
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  47. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    It’s the same like on the 146, it’s a DB Schenker from Mannheim because it’s recycled from the 185.2.
    That’s pure laziness to not care about this things
     
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  48. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and if DTG wants other third party to fix DB BR187 then RSSLO maker of some Austrian routes in train simulator 22 for 187 sounds correct one. That way it wouldn't complaints like this one
     
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  49. neddyie116

    neddyie116 Member

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    In Zusi 3 this loco has the correct sounds.
     
  50. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2019
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    The RSSLO sounds from Train Simulator 2018 are really perfect for the DB 187.
    We should ask them friendly to help DTG to fixed this.

    I go to bed now because this whole thing makes me Crazy :|
     

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