Br187=sounds Of 185

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by KoeleKoen, Oct 13, 2021.

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  1. aglomarsale

    aglomarsale Well-Known Member

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    What a thread.
     
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  2. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what are dtg's standards for third parties. They remind me a bit like EA in which they were ok to publish whatever regardless of issues. The CEO of dtg used to work for EA. The irony.

    Did nobody at DTG tell anyone at Skyhook that the sounds for the 187 are completely wrong? Did they hope nobody would notice? Why is dtg ok with allowing third products to release content like this. DTG are ok with rivet not fixing their dlc's and ok with skyhook releasing something like this. My question is why? DTG as the publisher could easily tell rivet and skyhook that they will not publish new dlc's that they have made until they fix issues with their dlc's yet they choose not too. They just seem to just want to make a quick slice of the cash flow. This in my opinion has to change because it isn't fair to those who were interested in this product only to be met with disappointment because of issues like these that won't be fixed for months.

    With Matt the Executive Producer, he really should be going in and making some well needed changes and not continue to allow these things to happen. If things keep going down the way they have for the last few months, Matt's vision of this game certainly won't be a good vision
     
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  3. VolvoB10M

    VolvoB10M Member

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    What are the differences between the two other than bodywork? The only difference shown on an English site is one of them can run on DC as well as AC and the other is AC only. Can't anyone explain what the differences are. I am trying to find out as well watching videos to compare the sound with no result as there are no decent recordings of the 186 and none of the 187.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  4. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    IT's DB Cargo, it's not Railion anymore.
    DB Cargo is in Cologne/Köln at the Rbf Gremberg, and this could be realistic but IDK if there are any 187. But I guess so.

    WHY IS SOUND SO FREAKIN' IMPORTANT TO US?
    Well, take a train Diver and his senses he can use to operate the train. See with his eyes, hear with his ears and feel with his body. Now, take us, PC/Xbox/PS player. We can NOT feel what the train is doing. We can NOT feel how much it is accelarating or decelerating, is it braking? If yes, how much? Is it bumpy? We HAVE TO get all these infos out of sound, since we can't feel anything regarding the train.
    That is, why good sound is so important. And to clarify another thing: I don't care if it is realistic. OFC, IF it is realistic it's good, but my main concern is that it can't inteptret the missin sense which we as player need.
    Take a "new" (DRA) 185 as example. When I'm standing I doesn' hear that much, and if I slowly add power I can completely listen how the train get's louder, that's how you know your speed in the slow speeds. And that's why good sound is important.
     
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  5. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Find it helpful and another thing for DB BR 187 is having it DB Cargo Rbf Hagen Vorhalle RRO RSN SKA or Db Cargo Rbf Koln Gremberg the other one is Rbf Koln Kalk
     
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  6. VolvoB10M

    VolvoB10M Member

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    I missed that when reading through the first time. I noticed the inverter goes silent when the power is cut off at one point as with the BR101, is this actually supposed to happen with the BR185 too? I remember mentioning this (possibly on a YT comment) and someone responded saying there is no on load/off load sound difference.
     
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  7. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    false the Traxx AC3 are similarity of the traxx 186 the AC1 and AC2 are about 15 years old
     
  8. VolvoB10M

    VolvoB10M Member

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    Age doesn't make much difference when you compare 350/1 and 350/4 as they still sound the same. I was simply asking what other differences where there as that was the only information I could find in English. I was not spreading false information!
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
  9. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    The loco looks nice and I was really looking forward to it, but that's unfortunately where it ends. The sounds are just awful - not only it's the 146 sounds re-used as said so many times before, they even used the old version of them which is just the terrible vacuum cleaner all over again :(
    In addition, a BR187 that is working for DB Regio in Stuttgart and allowed to go 160 km/h? I really really doubt it! If you don't even care for these details, I don't even want to look more closely at the rest.
    And buttons for door controls? Why not just add the PIS screens and make it the BR147 then, because what we got right now is neither 187 nor 147 :(
    While it is nice to see that LZB has been implemented, it seems to come with a lot of problems.
    If the sound, visuals and functionalities are updated, I'll happily buy it, but in it's current state it is a shame :(
     
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  10. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Be careful just going with these numbers. I believe the Netherlands use a similar naming pattern but might include other types of locos.
    The BR187 is a TRAXX 3, i.e. the third generation. The 146 and 185 we got in the game are TRAXX 2. So there is a generation difference inbetween, which you can see for a lot of things, but also the traction equipment has changed.
    When it comes to power supply, both generations have AC only versions and MS versions (multi system). They will look more or less the same within their generation, so from the looks of it you might not be able to tell the exact version behind it. Take a look at the wikipedia article, they have a good overview there. (The German version seems to be better and more detailed than the English version, so maybe use Google translate rather than switching wiki to English if you don't speak German ;) )
     
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  11. VolvoB10M

    VolvoB10M Member

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    So the 185 has more in common with the 146 than the 187? I was under the impression the 146 was in some way more different out of the bunch. Maybe I should just ignore the class number and think of them the same way as north American locos.
     
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  12. TKessel

    TKessel New Member

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    Thanks to all of you for making us aware of this issue before the release, that is a no go! Especially with the unique sound of this engine!

    Fix it, then I will buy it, otherwise, I think we will see the next add-on with "negative" review this evening.
     
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  13. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Well…. This week will be interesting.

    Thursday nights railfan tv will comprise of Sam fending off sound questions for 187 and guard bar ones for the 38.

    Friday nights will be Jasper telling us the couldn’t make st Ives look like st Ives because of frame rate issues, avoid all questions on arosa and justify a quiet timetable.

    Tough two days inbound as a result of 3rd parties
     
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  14. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but then a 185.0 is also not the same as a 185.5, sometimes the numbering system is very odd :D Better to think about it as TRAXX 1, 2 and 3. Maybe a rough overview is something like the following:
    "Prototype generation" for the TRAXX family - 145.x & 146.0
    TRAXX1 - 185.0 (F140 AC1), 146.1(P160 AC1)
    TRAXX2 - 185.2,185.4, 185.5 (F140 AC2 & MS2), 146.2, 146.5 (P160 AC2), also available as Diesel only versions (DE)
    TRAXX3 - 187.x (F140 AC3 & MS3), 147.0, 147.5 (P160 AC3)
    (And these classification numbers are only for locos registered in Germany!)
     
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  15. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    But we've been here before and tbh imo the CMs take these issues head on, especially Sam. Important to remember that they're not devs themselves, they can only make our voices heard and I have no doubt they will.
     
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  16. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    We certainly are making you heard.
    Keep your feedback coming, this is a good example of a constructive thread.
     
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  17. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    I just hope we will get the same amount of Feedback from SHG as well
     
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  18. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Is Skyhook in the Stream today?
    I don’t trust this guys anymore after all
     
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  19. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    As long as plans haven‘t changed - no. It‘ll just be Sam.
     
  20. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    It will indeed be just Sam. We are having conversations with Skyhook today to get some answers to your questions for tonight.
     
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  21. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    I am sooooooo sorry for Sam becasue he get's "thrown into" the misery and now he has to deal with it because he represents it in this stream. I really like him for entertaining purposes but since I have seen how toxic some members of this community are I'm a bit concerned about the stream later
     
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  22. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I think Sam is experienced enough to manage this situation. Actually, he is the absolutely best person for this stream as he for sure understands very well what concerns us gamers. I am very much looking forward to this stream.
     
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  23. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    I don't think he isn't experienced I just think that this is a bad sitation because he's the one who represents a good chunk of bad work of which is none his fault
     
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  24. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Yes you shouldn't, it's better to use the manufacturer's designation, the simplest of which is just using the generations (TRAXX1, TRAXX2 and TRAXX3).

    Designations can represent other things entirely or be simply random. For example our Italian designations would have helped you more (the TRAXX2 is designated as E.484, and the TRAXX3 is E.494) but each country uses their own not always consistent system.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
  25. dbrunner#4864

    dbrunner#4864 Well-Known Member

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    For people that ask why sound is important?, put some ear
    Excellent cab videos. From this DTG should also learn how much noise and rumble the wheels of a 90+ tone vehicle generate. The rumbling sound overpowers everything, even if no traction is applied something that is true to all locos, old or new. Also you can clearly hear the different tones of the traction converters, its beautiful. Seems the 187 has more in common with the Taurus 182 than 185 at least from the sound perspective.
    Oh yeah and the sound of the Skyhooks BR187 is absolutely trash like others have mentioned.
    And there is no debate if sound is that important, sound is as important as the graphic model. It would say even there is a mandatory 3 way here, Sound+Graphics+Phisix for a successful representation in game.
     
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  26. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    dbrunner#4864 If you scoll a Bit up, I summarized, why sound is that important to us. In short: We cann not feel what the loco is doing, unlike the real driver. So it has to be compensated with sound. and SHG doesn't reach this level of sound.
     
  27. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Here a short video from the huge issues
     
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  28. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    This brings back bad memories.

    And this is why I said I wouldn't have minded the most recent traxx sounds, yes, they are wrong, but not unbearable.

    Although I wonder, is it that bad if you respect the realistic speed limits (80/100/120)?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  29. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    There's really on 1 issue I see which is the sound.
     
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  30. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Even under 100 km/h it’s the same bad, the sounds are looping as hell.
     
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  31. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    I think sam knows well enough that the flak on tonights stream is not personally directed to him, all i hope is shg gives sam some sort of update/reasoning/info and don't just use him as a shield to let this go by and leave us with the "deal with it"
     
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  32. Hazawa

    Hazawa Member

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    Going through the Videos, and Real Life Pictures. Including the real manuals, there are a few things wrong with it. It looks like a mixture of a 147 with a 187. Also including, the wrong display for Speed o Meter (CCD) . The list goes long..the brake weight is missing 2 tons in R even more by the others mode.

    In my opinion, the sound is the most important part in a simulator. I wouldn't mind a few errors in it, because it is not like you add sound over night. Also, a few mistakes can be forgiven as long it still feels normal.
     
  33. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

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    Sounds can be changed... and skyhook should change them. I think after the effort they put, any reasonable developer would look at the feedback and go "we need to correct this". So for now, I don't have a problem with this.

    What I do have a problem, is that quite clearly... there is still something awry in the DTG release strategy/quality control pipeline that causes this ridiculousness. When you have some of the great advances in rush hour, DTG and related third parties trip themselves up with a lack of attention to detail. Whether its the completely inaccurate sounds of the 187, missing scenery at Reigate or still missing timetable of BKL or (insert issue here).

    These glaring omissions are being passed down the development pipeline through the hands of multiple people. Either people are not being empowered to finish their work, or people are being intentionally negligent of their work. And when the "clearly evident" problem is finally presented to the public, it's up to the likes of Sam and Natalie to dip their heads in the community stink up.

    That isn't fair to anyone. Not to Sam and Nat who receive that abuse. Not to us who consistently support DTG. Or even the few developers who were let down on their own work.
     
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  34. dbrunner#4864

    dbrunner#4864 Well-Known Member

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    True, not to mention that the 187 does not have any decent roll sounds to give you a fell that you are actually running on rails in the first place (traction motors sound, realistic traction converters sounds, auxiliary sounds all missing in action). Seriously my little HO scale Taurus produce a lot more heavy roll sounds while going on the tiny rails than the simulated BR187!
    Even if the producers has never stepped into a loco cab ever, there are a ton of videos that could have been used to produce something at least 50 % close to the original.

    Just for fun check the sounds of the HO model, do you think it is normal a HO model has this level of sound and yet a simulated version on a state of the art simulator sounds worst than MSTS ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  35. Hazawa

    Hazawa Member

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    You will notice a lot if you compare some locomotives with each other, like the Br 101 with the Br 145. They have some similarities, from the practice part, if you can set up a 145 you will be able to set up a 101 there is not that much of a difference.
    After the 145 crashed in, the next locomotives were 146 and 185. Everything you find by the 145 behind your locomotive driver seat, like brake modes etc..wandered back into the engine room. The Battery switch, turned from a simple a turn around switch to a huge handle.
    Sifa moved from single yellowe handle into the battery switch etc.
    After plenty of years, the 186 popped up which is a kind of in between step. Between the 185 and 187.
     
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  36. dergamer8

    dergamer8 New Member

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    Haha that one got me
     
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  37. 5cip

    5cip Member

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    hope the fix that sound thats really a no go
     
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  38. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Errr…..stream of 187 already live?
    7CF1B357-D720-40B7-A293-719D1A1EF1F6.jpeg

     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  39. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    That‘s not DTG‘s stream. It‘s by some Australian Youtuber - nothing official about it despite the title.
     
  40. kevin.charb81

    kevin.charb81 Well-Known Member

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    Skyhook- simply not good enough, and this is a disappointing effort.

    The difference in sound between the 187 IRL and the one in TSW is shocking!

    It's irrelevant to me if they get fixed at this point, I just can't take their work seriously if they try and pass this off as a final product out of the gate.
     
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  41. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent point and for Skyhook games if they need to get the sides right to where this locomotive is based from they have these options DB Cargo Rbf Köln Gremberg/Rbf Köln Kalk DB Cargo Rbf Mannheim and the last option is the shared RRO RSN Rbf Hagen Vorhalle
     
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  42. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I do rather like how the third party developers help me save money for DTG products (yes I know they have hiccups too but I'm happy taking this approach for now)
     
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  43. Bradley

    Bradley Well-Known Member

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    Why preview streams are important
     
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  44. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    When both pantos are on the roof, why does the MFD still shows power?
     
  45. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    IF SHG is reading this.. I genuinely recommend taking it down at working on it for a while. Just take a look at the TSC Discord.
    There's so many wrong here...

    There are helpful timestamps there
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  46. TKessel

    TKessel New Member

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    It would be time for DTG to set stanards for 3rd Party developers like it is with DCS - quality control, if a DLC does not match the wanted quality, you can rework your DLC or you will no longer publish any DLC for DCS.

    Normally DTG was the company who had released low quality content for TS, now we are at a point where Rivet-Games and Skyhook release bad content that will not be fixed (at least in the case of Rivet-Games). It is really a shame, I'm still pissed about the bad graphics of the Arosa line, no patches, nothing.
     
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  47. Glazier

    Glazier Member

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    I honestly do not understand why DTG went on with releasing it...
    The only reason I can imagine is that there is a timeframe the product should be published after it is declared finished by the developer included in contract but no quality control terms determined at all.
     
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  48. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

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    Couple the rehashed sound with the popping issue on Xbox and you get this:



    Seriously, how can something like this be released? Every single DLC is a buggy mess on release, I'm rapidly losing my interest in this game. Disappointment after disappointment.
     
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  49. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    What the hell is going on with the power application (15% on the lever = 100% tractive effort?) That simply won't get going without wheelspin under the right conditions, I would assume it's just wrong, and for that to be fixed I fear a lot of changes would need to be made (like the 204). Maybe I won't be happy to buy that in a couple of week if the sounds are fixed. Now, THAT is game breaking.
    Same for the PZB lights.

    I would really like to buy it, do some testing and refund it immediately, there is no way it's that bad. I don't belive my eyes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  50. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    That's what I did. You can see the result in the Video
     
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