Hi everyone, I hope you're all doing well. I have a question regarding braking points. In real life, train drivers know where to start braking to stop accurately at stations, based on instructions or experience. As a fellow TSW enjoyer, I have noticed that it is easier to drive HUD-less on German routes, since km-posts are presents, rather than say British routes where braking points are primarily landmarks and where I have the tendency to either brake too early and arrive at the platform slower than I could, overshoot the platform or pull up the emergency brake to barely not find myself in the latter case... At this point, you could tell me to memorize them, but knowing by heart braking points for each route for each station for each rolling stock type and weather condition - or making a list of - would be a little bit of a tedious task to partake in. I'm curious if anyone has created or knows of a document or spreadsheet with this kind of information for TSW. It would be really helpful for those of us who like to drive without the HUD and aim for a realistic experience. Thanks in advance for any info or help! Edit: braking points, not breaking points.
I’m gonna give you the advice that you said you didn’t want to do. Learn the landmarks, little by little. Different rolling stock, different weather, 3 stations at a time. Take, for example, the Brighton mainline. Drive from London Victoria to east Croydon in the 377 with sunny weather. Then do the same thing in the rain. Then do it in the sun again. Repeating the process until you nail it will be the most effective way to master this skill. I know it is tedious and annoying, but repetition and recall is the most effective way to go about this. A tip for braking, always overestimate the brakes. I’d rather overshoot by 20 yards than roll along at 10mph for 150 yards, that way you know how to make finer adjustments. Good luck
I know that PGT Rail has some route learning videos on his YT which discuss landmarks, speeds, and breaking points etc for some older TSW routes such as East Coastway and Southeastern Highspeed. I found his videos quite helpful in the "early" days of TSW, just to become more familiar with the routes. https://www.youtube.com/@PTGRail
I am also going to give you the advice you said you didn't want, but the best way to know the braking points is to define and learn them yourself. Make them memorable, for example a technique I use for in real life is a quick rhyme or nickname for it that you'll remember so you know where the landmark is. In contrast to West Coastway, I would say to be much more conservative with your braking as it is better to begin braking, realise you're over doing it and then reducing the braking force and then start braking again when ready. Then next time you'll know that you have to actually pass that land mark then apply the brakes. It prevents you having to change the landmark for the location, and also means that you are more flexible when driving stock that handles differently as you are just looking for the same thing and then acting appropriately.
Thanks for the answers and great to get some perspective. Follow-up question: how much braking is considered normal braking? If I was to take the class 395 for instance, I can see the brake gauge redlining at 80%. Is it uncommon to go above, or? What about German locos hauling passenger consists? What notch(es) would be deemed as appropriate for service braking? Any input is welcome and I am especially curious to hear if any train operator has some sort of guideline?
For British trains with notched brake handles like the 323 or 313 it's good practice to only use up to step 2 of braking. Step 3 is much harsher and it means if you’re about to over run a station or signal you have no other option but to use the emergency brake. For trains like the 395 I would try not go brake any harder than 60%. This is where driver knowledge comes in, if a driver knew they only wanted to use a certain amount of brakes they would start braking early; obviously depending on speed, weather conditions, length and weight of the train etc around mile or sometimes more is when you should be braking or prepare to start braking. Watch this
Established, proven procedure would be a 1bar reduction of the brake pipe at your braking point and the gradually reducing the brake force as you close in on the stop. Hit the platform at no more than 60km/h ideally. Just when you’re about to stop, release the indirect/train brakes and once you stand still, secure the train with the direct brake.
In terms of the “correct” level of brakes to apply there is no definitive answer, but as others have mentioned it’s always best to have some reserve braking available (Such as Step 3 on stepped controllers) which can be used if necessary. It saves you having to slam it into emergency frequently if you misjudge, and emergency brakes on some trains can take some time to reset.
I'm a lifelong simulation fan and these first person "equipment sims" are my favorite. I call them "cockpit sims". I love hardware setups too. Each cockpit sim I play has a cockpit setup to match. I've put a lot of thought into the hobby so I'm gonna throw in what's worked for me. Route knowledge comes from running the real train on the same route over and over again, and at a competency required to maintain safety critical employment. This isn't a real train. The fact that we can drive one train here, another there, and another in between makes gaining route knowledge a lot more challenging. While I respect the no HUD goal that many players strive for, my approach is a bit different. I let the HUD give me the information a driver would have.. current speed limit, next speed limit, current grade, next signal location (no aspect), and next stop distance. Despite it being HUD usage, I would argue it's a more realistic experience. That information is essential for smoothly and safely driving a train.. and that information is really only obtained through repetition and an active attempt at memorization. TSW isn't my job so I allow myself the handicap. In my opinion, being armed with all the information an experienced driver WOULD have makes for a much smoother run. I use the HUD distance and the type of equipment I'm driving to tell me where to brake for a station stop. My learning curve lies in how to apply the equipment handling characteristics to the task at hand. Doing it this way has me focusing almost all my attention on the train and how it's handling. Much more interesting than the location of some electrical box if you ask me. For example, most British EMUs are pretty similar in handling, so I've learned British EMUs and how they handle. Sometimes I discover interesting subtle differences between models, but for each difference there's a lot more similarities. It's like if a driver drove 314s for their whole career and now they have to learn the 380, because the 314 is being replaced. That driver knows the route, it's just a matter of learning the new equipment (you can probably tell what I'm up to right now ). And it's worth noting that I still learn the route doing it this way, it just comes more organically and in a less job-like way. There's a few routes that I could definitely drive with no HUD. My philosophy to the cockpit sim hobby is not to directly simulate the thing, but to directly simulate the feel of the thing. The best sim games know how to drop the realism where it counts. I take that approach to my gameplay. I acknowledge that it's an out of the box approach, but at the end of the day, if you're enjoying the experience you're doing it right.
To add a bit information to the German routes, indeed, the hectometer boards are crucial for that. The driver has a timetable with marked locations of stations and stops (you can grab those in the link in my signature), but there are also additional hints - for stations, this is passing the entrance signal (but you need to be able to recognize an entrance signal); for stops on open track, there is usually Ne 6 signal board (Expect a stop) at braking distance. Since all trains are capable of stopping within 1000 meters, that's usually around the point you want to start braking. Passenger trains in general have brakes strong enough to brake in way shorter distance than that, so using the full 1000 meters allow you for relatively comfortable level of braking. Some exceptions apply, notably when the platform is in significantly shorter distance (very close to "your" side of the station), that's where the timetable with locations (or driver's knowledge) comes handy; and when the train is running at full 160 km/h speed. Trying to stop within the 1000 meters from that speed requires uncomfortably harsh braking, so in that case, you would usually start gradually reducing the speed in advance so that around the 1000 meters you are running at around 120 km/h, rather than full 160.
When I was a DCM in the W&W/ATW Control (before jumping ship to Network Rail!) we used to get our safety briefings from the senior Traction Inspector (Dennis Flood, great guy). Part of that included some of what was being briefed out to drivers and the one resounding message was, defensive driving - always, without exception. Better to get a mild comment about being a minute or two late, than a Form One and disciplinary for a SPAD or station overrun because you left it too late and didn’t notice the railhead was a bit greasy or a bit of leaf contamination.
Many thanks for this and really interesting to know that the brake force adjusts itself to the train weight. Just a small thing, though, it is clearly stated that step 3 should be the go-to notch by default
This video is mostly about wheel slip activity. And remember these rules can change depending on operator guidelines. I showed you that video but from NSE but the rules will have likely changed by now. I still wouldn’t put the brake immediately into step 3 unless I needed to, a service application doesn’t need to be done every time
I find it becomes intuitive once you’ve driven the route a few times. Also the whole feel of the train gets familiar. That’s why I tend to stick to one train for a while, first doing scenarios and then moving onto timetable.
