Very excited for the BML route, but having done a bit of research about the current services (which presumably is what they'll be basing the timetable mode on), I've come up with the following questions. Advance warning - this goes on for a while so you might want a mug of tea first! 1) Will Hove be included, given that the trackwork for the Cliftonville Curve and Hove itself appears to already exist in ECW? In my mind it makes a more logical end-point for West Coastway-direction services than Preston Park, particularly as it would clear Littlehampton-bound services out of the way of BML services (there's usually a bit of waiting time once a train has arrived at its final player-driven destination before it moseys off the map through a portal - as Hove would be less busy than Preston Park, I'd imagine it would make the service mode a bit more stable to have this dwell time happen away from the busy main line). Would also allow for Hove shuttle services to Brighton to run too (perhaps with the 313 when it eventually releases). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) No Thameslink content appears to be coming with the route, but the most frequent stopping services out of Brighton along the main line appear to be TL services to Bedford / Peterborough. There are also some stations that off-peak are ONLY served by Thameslink services on the Redhill / 'slow' line (eg. Salfords, Earlswood) as all Southern and GX services appear to take the fast 'Quarry' route, bypassing them. Likely options I can see are as follows: a) The services are missing, leaving some stations with only a peak hours Southern service and that's it. Could be remedied later with additional services and a Class 700 (or 387) Thameslink DLC (would be happy to see this and pay for it). b) The services exist but are operated instead by Southern with the 377 (similar to how the TL services were replaced with Charing X / Cannon St Southeastern services on SEHS). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Will we get freight services up the 1 mile Ardingly spur (or indeed elsewhere on the route)? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) As plenty of people have already noted, will we get the GWR services from Reigate with the 166, reversing at Redhill to Gatwick and return? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) Will we get the full range of Southern London metro area and branch line destinations, at least as far as they travel within the confines of the route (eg Crystal Palace services disappearing through a portal after Balham towards Streatham Hill)? (below copied from Wikipedia) 2 tph to London Bridge via Crystal Palace 4 tph to Sutton via Norbury of which 2 continue to Epsom Downs 2 tph to West Croydon via Crystal Palace 2 tph to Epsom via Hackbridge 2 tph to Dorking of which 1 continues to Horsham 2 tph to East Grinstead via Oxted If not, I can imagine some of the closer-to-London stations being surprisingly quiet (eg. Battersea Park, Wandsworth Common) as the Reigate trains are semi-fast once beyond East Croydon and the Thameslink stoppers take the other route towards London Bridge / Blackfriars. As others have no doubt already mentioned, this is *prime* territory for a Class 455 DLC too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As a final thought on the future (and letting my imagination run away slightly so bear with me), I think it would be enormously beneficial for DTG to solve the route merging problem, despite the obvious difficulties in combining service timetables (to some extent it's probably easier to just draw up a new 'world' timetable). Not only thinking about BML - ECW merging at Brighton, but more importantly, DTG will have the assets and trackwork already in place in both Victoria (BML) and the Medway (SEHS), which surely means that the Chatham Main Line between the two is a relatively 'easy win' for them in the future. Being able to drive from Eastbourne to Victoria in a 377 before seamlessly switching onto a Faversham-bound 375 would really put the 'World' in Train Sim World, and I think would incentivise players to buy any 'missing links' in their collection (ultimately DTG is still a business and needs to make money, from what is quite a niche product, to pay the good people who make the routes and trains - this seems to be often forgotten in the rush to demand that routes are delayed and made bigger as if time and dev goodwill were the only constraints). It would also help naturally 'fill out' the world with services, without needing to artificially for instance have AI-only Southeastern trains programmed to arrive and depart out of Victoria on BML to make it look busy - because those services would actually be driveable! Anyway, I've spilled more than enough ink here so well done if you made it this far Cheers!
My main worry is that the Southern London metro routes will all be covered by the Class 377/4, which will look wrong. Having a Class 377/6 (which is essentially a 5-car Class 387) work these services would be more realistic. Fingers crossed we can get a Class 455 later on.
A great post, I'm also very excited! I agree with everything you have mentioned, have been wondering a lot myself. My response to some of your points: 1. Agreed Hove should be included and the potential extra services it offers - would be a nice bonus for the 313, plus sidings for the GX. 2. My biggest worry is whether the slow line stations between Gatwick and Redhill will have many services. Personally, I'd opt for the route to be set around 2015 when Southern use to operate Horsham to London Bridge services via Redhill. 5. I reckon the metro services form a big chunk of the timetable to make the route busy. It makes sense to have player-controlled services between Victoria and the likes of Balham, Selhurst, East Croydon, South Croydon, plus it would be a nice bonus to drive the London Bridge to Caterham/Tattenham Corner services between East Croydon and Purley. My own ideas to add to your excellent suggestions/ideas/questions. Would/could they release extra branch line DLCs. On TS 2021, a 2-mile Reigate extension was released recently. Would be great in the future if many of the Southern metro routes, plus the two-station branch line that spurs off to Lewes after Wivelsfield to get Plumpton and Cooksbridge. There is so much potential for BML. Also, I wonder if Selhurst Depot could be included to complement Lovers Walk in Brighton. With perhaps the most services/trains on a TSW 2 route to date, they all have to go somewhere at night. Would be highly unrealistic if they all left for a portal, thus leaving a very empty route during night hours. I wouldn't worry as much as that for now, just hope at least these services actually exist in the timetable to drive first, even if just the 377/4 as far as East Croydon etc. There's also plenty of potential DLC opportunities in the future to solve this problem. As long as there is a lot of traffic on the route, that is my initial expectation/hope.
I'm 99% sure we won't get the /6 as the route has been announced specifically with the /4, and I think it's already been made clear that additional traffic will be made up by using /4's renumbered as /1. They'd also have to specifically model the MOS coach as well, rather than using fully carryover content from ECW. As cloudyskies21 has said, I'd just be happy to see these services fully implemented to start with. The 455 would be a sterling addition afterward though - particularly with the addition of further branch line route mileage! These old units would be a great counterpoint to the more modern 377/387 as they drive and sound quite different too. (Slight diversion: I know that route extensions were in theory off the cards at the moment, but I wonder if it would be worth DTG trialling a combined loco + branch line DLC at £15-20ish to see how it sells compared to a normal loco-only pack. Obvious contenders for this in my mind would be Class 466 + Sheerness branch, or Class 455 + Tattenham Corner / Caterham branch. I think given the obvious demand for more network-style routes on the back of the positive reception for CCL and the (loud) disappointment over Dresden, this could be a positive move forward?)
I know we won't get the /6, but it could have been sensible to include it. Otherwise being limited to just the /4 and some of the /1 might not be enough to make a truly busy timetable covering both the main line and metro services.
IMHO, I think that eventually, but not any time soon, DTG will enable route merging (Matt has even said that it's on the wishlist). I doubt they will ever do route extensions. The reason is simple: merging means two routes, each purchasable separately and playable separately. An extension would not be standalone, and so of no use (and no sale) to anyone who does not own the base route- "DLC for DLC" as Sam said. This is not a good marketing strategy, whereas I think mergers could be, since owning Route A or Route B would encourage buying the other.
Another feature which I think DTG could and should add is "priority of layering"- by which I mean something like already was done with SEHS: 375s on 465 services with the base route only, 465s in their proper place if you own that DLC. Except I would extend this across routes referencing the player's entire train collection, so that, for example, SKA would retain the (incorrect) 422s as S-Bahn trains, unless the player also owns HMA, in which case the 423 would get "priority" and be the train used for that layer. Similar things could be done with, say, the ICE 3M (which everyone owns) subbing on future ICE-T routes, except when the player owns the actual ICE-T. This could apply to BML as well- use not quite right Southern 377s, unless and until the correct train is brought out.
Yes, however that really only covers one service pattern. Southern have dozens of services from across its network that all feed onto the Brighton Main Line at various points, which I doubt cannot be accurately reproduced using what stock is announced. We shall just have to wait and see...
