Hello, my problem is best illustrated with this screenshot... What are the spotting differences between Mk1 and Mk2 coaches? I did a few minutes of research now and as far as I see, Mk2 coaches universally had the three-part window layout seen on the NSE coaches, while Mk1 coaches (and the Mk2 prototypes) had the four-part windows. As such, all of the Kuju Mk2s are actually Mk1s. The ones on the left are supposedly Mk2s (according to scenario.bin). Aside from it being a little too tidy, how would I know the difference? Here is another view of the same train:
Edit: My confusion level is increasing, for after handling a bunch of screenies I came across this, which clearly has the Mk2 windows: So, ultimately, am I (mostly) correct that the window layout will tell the Mk1 / Mk2 difference? Thanks.
The Mk1s and MkI2s are different body shapes. The Mk2 s are flatter then a more pronounced curve above the underframe (called the tumblehome). You are correct in that the coaches in the "left" picture are Mk1s. The NSE picture are Mk2s as are those in the picture in the second post above..
I did on the Wikipedia article, but didn't see them in-game yet. 2d-2f and 3 seems to be different in the roof, the latter having bands. Thanks for the warning Mk1-Mk2 was a long itch (less than a thorn in my side), I was merely curious. Thinking about it today I sort of figured, Mk1 Green is SDJR, Mk1 BR is ECML and Mk2 BR is GWML, originally.
The air-conditioned Mark 2s (D/E/F) are available from several places; there were the Digital Traction which are now unavailable, the AP ones (the best ones) and the DTG ones which come as Mark 2s and also Class 488s*. There were also Iron Horse House ones but I believe DTG used the model for their own. *The Class 488s are Mark 2F coaches that were converted to have a DC bus I believe, to be used with Class 73s and 489s on the Gatwick Express. The 'original' Mark 2s and air-conditioned Mark 2s are effectively different coach designs entirely. The Mark 2D-F were air conditioned, had doors at the ends only and had a significantly different interior. The Mark 3s are also different to those but not as much. They have a higher top speed, are 3m longer and had different interiors. They also had buffet and sleeper coaches whereas the air conditioned Mark 2s did not (although Great Western Trains did convert some for their Class 47/57-hauled express services; the whole GWT Mark 2 fleet was also modified with new interiors using the same seats as Class 166s and other trains in first class - a photo was posted on RailUK Forums but I can't find it). No. Rail Simulator and RailWorks used the green Mark 1s for SDJR and the Mark 1 and 2 for ECML (Mark 3s were used on GWML in HST sets) - although scenarios did break these rules; for example a steam railtour on GWML would use the green Mark 1s. (This is assuming you're thinking this is how it was in real life, which it wasn't). The Mark 1s were built as an overall design for the whole country, and each region of BR had their own livery. The Southern Region had green, the Midland region has maroon I believe, and Western used chocolate and cream. Other liveries include blood and custard, but I don't know where that was used. BR rebranded in the late sixties and replaced all liveries with rail blue with a grey window band for coaching stock (a later addition). Most Mark 1s were replaced during this period but some lasted well into the 90s. I am not sure what the last use of one was but I'd imagine the last 'main' use (other than charter sets) would be the brake coaches on the WCML, which were replaced by DVTs.
Blood and custard was the standard BR express livery from 1948 to 1957 (and seen everywhere) when it was agreed (because the Western Region in particular continually moaned) that the individual regions could have variations. At the same time the BR standard became the well known lined maroon. Only the WR and SR (the SDJR was under LMR control until 1958 when it became WR but still had through SR traffic after) used their pre nationalisation colours. The LMR, ER, NER and ScR all used BR standard liveries even on their pre nationalisation stock. It was a very colourful time as on the old Great Central main line you could often see trains with Blood and custard, lined Maroon and Chocolate and Cream or Southern Green (depending on the train origin or destination) all in the same train on the through expresses up to about 1962/3. Never Green AND Chocolate and cream together although all liveries were seen at Exeter, Plymouth, Bristol, Bath, Oxford and Birmingham Snowhill as well as the old GCR line (e.g. Nottingham Victoria). The non express livery was unlined maroon. Sometimes being an aged parent can be useful?
The Mk2F coaches converted to run on the Gatwick Express had High Level Air Pipes and MU Cables There was no need for a DC Bus - the coaches systems got power from the GLV thru the standard ETH Cables. For spotting the difference between a Mk1 coach and a Mk2 just look down Mk1 coaches were built on a heavy underframe https://peter749.piwigo.com/picture?/28235/category/270-uk_coaching_stock Mark 2 coaches have a semi-integral construction without a separate underframe https://peter749.piwigo.com/picture?/28248/category/270-uk_coaching_stock Peter
Thanks for that 749006... I presume the pre-blue days of BR must have been a sight with livery variety pretty much everywhere. The franchised rail system sometimes had it (early Greater Anglia, Southeastern) but nothing like that. I always felt blood and custard was the best livery for the Mark 1s though.
Honestly, rightly or wrongly I've just gone by the roofs, if they have knobbly bits (vents?) all down the roof - Mk1, if relatively smooth - Mk2.. I am proudly not a train spotter though.. (just kidding, it's just trains never really interested me in the real world enough to stand on a platform looking at them,)
I agree it's pretty. Between your comments and a thorough look I think I got it now. Thanks everyone. After fixing some it seems fairly clear. Another thing I noticed is the end of the coach, I don't find the proper words, but the Mk1 has a sharp edge while the Mk2 is rounded. Pedancy or nerd aside I have the option to create a slideshow with Mk1s ("post war UK passenger trains") and it would be awkward to have a DB Schenker consist to show up, passing the Edinburgh Arena and a 170. 'sides, it's like mixing up a Dash-9 with an ES44AC.
From what I read the Mk1s liveries were Blood & Custard, Chocolate and Cream, Maroon and Green. Green seemed to be the worse as i was quite bland Due to the different styles of body construction After the early Mk2a coaches the later ones had wrap round doors to give a bigger entrance
Yeah, I don't like green on them either. I think Mark 1s (and 2A-Cs) work best with a window band, otherwise the shape just blends into a uninteresting blob.
