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PlayStation Bugs That I Have Found In The Db Br 101

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by diamondderp, Apr 22, 2021.

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  1. diamondderp

    diamondderp Well-Known Member

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    • Left MFD screen inaccurate.
    The left MFD screen is literally copied from the TRAXX locomotives and completely inaccurate. The speedometer on the screen is also very inaccurate, it is limited to 160km/h but it should be 200km/h. The Sifa and "T" for the doors does not work at all.

    • PZB and LZB lights in the cab doesn't light up always.
    The PZB and LZB lights in the cab doesn't light always up.

    • Direct/loco brake doesn't work with AFB.
    If you put the direct/loco brake to apply, it will apply brake but if you put it in hold, it doesn't hold the brake pressure.

    • Shunting Control doesn't work with AFB.
    I have followed all steps how to activate it, but it doesn't work. It will not give you some power.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
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  2. Fitz

    Fitz Active Member

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    There should be next to no wheel slip in the 101. The loco should automatically limit the power to the traction motors. THe driver does not need to feather the throttle to avoid wheel slip.
     
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  3. Rutger Luiten

    Rutger Luiten Member

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    Most BR101 locomotives are limited to 200km/h since 2014, so the AFB is correct.
     
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  4. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    I think this is in the introduction where the train goes from Duisburg to Mülheim. So ist Shows the start (Duisburg) the next Stop (Mülheim) and the Terminus (also Mülheim), in timetable Mode it should normally be
    Duisburg
    Essen
    Bochum
     
  5. diamondderp

    diamondderp Well-Known Member

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    Ok so I have removed some things because these were not bugs but I have added a new one, the bug that the "T" icon not will show up.
     
  6. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    The Express Service trophy hasn’t popped for me and I have reached and exceeded 101km/h so far.

    EDIT: This has popped now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  7. diamondderp

    diamondderp Well-Known Member

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    Hhmm strange, I got it when I was around 102km/h.
     
  8. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Wheel slip: The BR101 has superslip capabilities. It slips by purpose when you select a certain amount of tractive effort. Thats was implemented as good as possible. So this is not a bug.

    Doors indicator: The BR101 does not have it. Only the four exMET locos that are not represented in that DLC.

    Notbremse indicator: Lights up a few seconds when you move the train brake lever into FU for a short time. Prototypical behaviour for this loco.

    PZB indicators: They were working always in all tests yet. Needs further investigation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
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  9. diamondderp

    diamondderp Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your quick response, I will edit my post.
     
  10. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    It’s popped now. :)
     
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  11. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    The wheel slip seems extremely excessive though, it takes ages to accelerate without triggering wheel slip.
     
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  12. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Could you maybe give us a little insight into what that is and how exactly it works? Why would a loco slip on purpose? Sound like a very weird thing to install into a loco.
     
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  13. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    From what I've seen on streams PZB just doesn't work together with LZB. When both are turned on neither seem to work properly, PZB lights don't turn on and neither do the LZB lights. While both work on the HUD the train just can't comprehend both systems being on at once. So maybe that's a good starting point for further investigation?
     
  14. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Not really. I had a 'few' (about 300 or so) runs with both systems on. Was working as expected always. I actually have no idea what this causes.
     
  15. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    Duplicated destination when I got on a train at Essen Hbf too (in explore on foot). Two Duisburg or Bochum I think even though they only have one more stop.
     
  16. Fitz

    Fitz Active Member

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    I don't think this is correct either.
    Below is taken from Wiki:
    ""Class 101 also was outfitted with the Superschlupfregelung ("super slip control"), which controls the maximum number of rotations of the wheels per minute, and can automatically limit the rotations in order to avoid damage to the wheel surface or switch on the sand. This enables the maximization of the functional grip between wheel and rail. This system requires very precise information on the current speed, which resulted in the installation of a radar system into the floor of the locomotive, which sends the required speed data to the computer system. It turned out that the radar was unnecessary, and that this control system functions well without the data provided by the radar.""
     
  17. diamondderp

    diamondderp Well-Known Member

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    While driving more with this lovely locomotive, I have found two more bugs:

    • Direct/loco brake doesn't work
    If you put the direct/loco brake to apply, it will apply brake but if you put it in hold, it doesn't hold the brake pressure.

    • Shunting Control doesn't work
    I have followed all steps how to activate it, but it doesn't work. It will not give you some power.
     
  18. FallenAngel00me

    FallenAngel00me Active Member

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    The tutorial has a bug where it doesn't acknowledge an objective when stopping st Müllheim Ruhr HBF
     
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  19. trainfanhro#6012

    trainfanhro#6012 New Member

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    update for LZB/PZB.

    Lights appear in szenario mode, when systems are switcht on. Maybe its a timetabe problem?
     
  20. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    That seems to be the case. Maik Goltz the PZB/LZB lights work as intended for scenarios, but don‘t light up in timetable mode - results from a PS5.
     
  21. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    There is no difference how the lights work when in scenario or tt mode. Scenarios basically use TTs. No idea what is going on there. Seems a Playstation only thing too.
     
  22. Slemcer

    Slemcer Well-Known Member

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    That being said, the next question would be: How long has it been tested on Playstation?
    I have to assume for the umpteenth time that thoroughness played no part in it ...
     
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  23. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    As a workaround for the PZB/LZB lights, this workaround for the Br 182 also works for the 101:
    Speaking of the 182, maybe you could ask Adam from the preservation crew what the issue was for the Br 182 PZB lights, Maik Goltz since it has the same problem as the 101 and that was fixed according to Adam.
     
  24. Maverick_ng

    Maverick_ng Active Member

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    I think that when you start a service right away (when you start directly inside the cabin, sitting on the drivers seat) the PZB lights keeps off, but on timetable or free roam, when the train comes from the portal, stops at a station, you take over, then it works. That's also on the BR182.
     
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  25. trainfanhro#6012

    trainfanhro#6012 New Member

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    yes seems to work thanks
     
  26. diamondderp

    diamondderp Well-Known Member

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    I was driving the loco and the PZB and LZB things were not illuminated.
     

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  27. imaginox9

    imaginox9 Active Member

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    On the few services I've done so far the Sifa light went on correctly when it needed to.
     
  28. diamondderp

    diamondderp Well-Known Member

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    I noticed the loco/direct brake and shunting control doesn't work with AFB on, Im not sure if its working as intended or its a bug.
     
  29. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    good evening to you the 101 has a good physique in fact this locomotive is a little special it uses in real life a self-skating system of the wheels and this is reproduced the only boges that I saw is that the 101 goes up at 5.6bar and not 5bar
     
  30. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    good evening little problem the 101 in real life goes up to 5.6bar and not 5 bar thank you for pacht this small bug thank you very much x)
     
  31. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Do you know if the DB BR 101 shipping build PKG was tested on a Playstation 4 Dev Kit, by anyone at all?

    I got the impression from the launch stream that the DB BR 101 was tested on PC and XBox, and was therefore just expected to probably work on PS4 (this was explicitly stated).

    I would like to buy this DLC at some point, for both PC and PS4, especially since it is based on HRR, which is quite a fabulous route.
     
  32. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    If you are right, and this is a "Playstation only" problem, then maybe it might help if someone lets Sony know about it?

    If the Playstation is at fault, then maybe Sony can be encouraged to recall all of the consoles that they've made, and repair them so that they can be made to be compaitble with DB BR 101, in TSW 2.

    It's just an idea. Although maybe there is an easier solution..... that could have been implemented before the DB BR 101 was put on sale....? Maybe....?
     
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  33. unknown_guy00

    unknown_guy00 New Member

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    Wheel slip: That's a negative.. It doesn't slip by purpose.. It causes damage to both the tracks and the wheels.
    Superschlupfregelung "super slip control" avoids wheel slip but it still does around 40 kN and it should be polished.. (Kinda the same problem with other locos/multiple unit in TSW 2 though..)
    Edit: Ok and if you start mentioning the snow or rain which might cause this: Yes, sure..
    But it could be compensated by sand it and also does nothing..
     
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  34. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should read about it again. Yes, super slip is a sort of control, but it does not prevent slip at all. It uses slip to gain the max possible tractive effort onto the tracks. That is kinda unique to the 101 (and its derived locos). The difference is the amount of slip. There are multiple sorts of slip control, from uising air brakes to hold back the axle from spinning, over the macro control that uses the ability from the motors to fine control the slip on the edge of friction, and the superslip that uses slip to go over the edge a bit and let it slip in a controlled way.
     
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  35. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely love the 101, even more so now I appreciate how it is supposed to work. So glad I purchased it.
     
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  36. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    No.... the DB BR 101 has been done extremely well, and is abolutely fine as it is - and the slip is a key feature for me. This is the best loco DLC in TSW 2 at the moment. It is really really very good. This is the loco that really pushes TSW away from being a game, and fairly deeply into "simulator" territory - which is what many of us want to see.

    The super-slip is a bit like TCS (Traction Control) in a race car. You have to be at the point of slipping (or very slightly just over) to get the maximum traction effort. In real life this actually protects both the wheelset and the rail, particularly on P/Xings, when rail interface/contact varies considerably.

    You will have to learn to drive the DB BR 101, and/or tolerate the feedback on the HUD, which I think is a perfectly good way to communicate the activation of the slip - for me, it adds to the immersion.

    If you don't like the feedback on the HUD, then switch off the HUD - problem solved.
     
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  37. unknown_guy00

    unknown_guy00 New Member

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    There is no such thing in a locomotive that makes it's wheels slip to "let it slip in a controlled way".. No such thing, a little slip of the wheel can cause damages..
     
  38. unknown_guy00

    unknown_guy00 New Member

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    And yes..... The wheelslip of certain locos are ridiculous.. for example the BR 112 trips every time when trying to apply power.. Goes up to notch 6 or so and then "whoops thats too much"
     
  39. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Well.... in that case, I suggest that you write to the senior rolling stock engineer at Bombardier to complain - because that is what they claim to have fitted to their locos in real life.

    Let us know how you get on with that. ;-)

    Oh, and if you really have "found them out", then perhaps you should write a complaint to various patent offices where such designs have been filed, here's an example of where you could start your project:

    https://www.freepatentsonline.com/3982164.html

    I hope that helps.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  40. unknown_guy00

    unknown_guy00 New Member

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    Cool, but none of you inserted a single proper explanation of how the "Superschlupfregelung" works.. just throwing words around..
     
  41. unknown_guy00

    unknown_guy00 New Member

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    So you are saying that TCS that reduces traction in case of wheel slip is some kind alike the super slip control?
     
  42. unknown_guy00

    unknown_guy00 New Member

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    So then how come that super-slip that actually uses "slip in a controlled way" is like TCS?
     
  43. unknown_guy00

    unknown_guy00 New Member

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    The only thing you had to do is do a little research about it and then -correctly- express yourself..
    "In contrast to a conventional slip control, which prevents any slip, the super slip control allows a certain macroscopic difference between the vehicle and wheel circumferential speed, the so-called super slip. This allows the maximum frictional connection between wheel and rail to be used."
    So what you call "slip in a controlled way" is that the friction is maximised during the wheel slip and therefore it decreases hardness of the wheel slip..




    chill..
     
  44. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Ensuring some slip, to improve traction, has been known about for about fifty years. Here is the explanation (bold bit is the justification):

    ------------------------
    It is conventional practice to limit the maximum slip allowed on electric locomotives to a very low value. Any wheel slip beyond the limit value has been considered to be excessive and undesirable. Generally, wheel slip control is carried out by detecting excessive wheel slip whenever it occurs (for example by comparison of motor currents) and taking corrective action by reducing power supplied to the traction motors until the wheel slip returns to a value below the low established limit. It has been found that as wheel slip increases, the rail adhesion or friction between the wheel and rail also usually increases up to some peak value and then the adhesion decreases with further increase of slip. Thus to obtain optimum tractive effort by the locomotive, particularly during drag service, it is desirable to allow the wheels to slip sufficiently to attain the maximum adhesion value. The traditional wheel slip limit is substantially lower than that which provides maximum adhesion. It is then desirable to provide an apparatus for controlling the wheel slip in a manner to allow the maximum adhesion to be attained.
    ------------------------

    You can read the full text here (from 1974):

    https://www.freepatentsonline.com/3982164.html

    Experts, eh? What can you do about them?

    Now - if you have better data that disproves these ideas, then you should let the rail industry know, because they have been relying on the idea of controlling slip (not just eliminating it through absolute power reduction), for a few decades now.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
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  45. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you should calm down a little, eh? Anyway, here's your official source (chapter 6, page 3 or page 175 of the pdf):
    Screenshot 2021-05-16 010451.png
     
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  46. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Genau...! I did have a brief look for the relevant patent filings (presumably ABB design...?), but the ones I found weren't quite specific enough for me to be sure to quote them...., but I thought the 1974 General Motors document was interesting in any case... (I am one of those sorts of people that can quite happily get myself lost in the complex universe of Rail Vehicle Dynamics...., purely as a tourist, of course...).: ;-)
     
  47. unknown_guy00

    unknown_guy00 New Member

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    Finally some information..
     
  48. unknown_guy00

    unknown_guy00 New Member

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    Yet we were arguing for hours..
     
  49. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Well as a wise person once said to me:

    "The only thing you had to do is do a little research about it and then -correctly- express yourself.."

    Good advice, methinks.
     
  50. unknown_guy00

    unknown_guy00 New Member

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