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PlayStation Bugs That I Have Found In The Db Br 101

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by diamondderp, Apr 22, 2021.

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  1. Eugenio

    Eugenio New Member

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    With the BR101, when leaving the LZB, the power lever must first be set to zero and then the AFB lever must be set to zero.

    In the real path, when leaving the LZB, there is only a compulsory zero setting for the AFB lever.
     
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  2. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    I do have a question in regards to that "super wheel slipping" feature on the 101.

    It seems that it does behave correctly, I do believe that. However... Shouldn't it gain at least some more traction by deploying sanders? Because so far it seems that the sanders have no effect at all.
     
  3. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    The sand is called "brake sand" and not "acceleration sand" for some reason :D
     
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  4. Maverick_ng

    Maverick_ng Active Member

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    Now thinking about the super-slip... it makes me recall about the tecnique of welding by friction. Both surfaces will have greater temps and that improves traction too.
     
  5. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    Maik, with all due respect but it seems this is one of those things you make up excuses just to support something that is somewhat unrealistic.

    Whatever is it called, sand works for both traction and braking. Another case is if it is misused, but that is besides the point. ;)

    I have experience with driving a similar type of locomotive in real life ( Siemens Eurosprinter 1st generation from 1992 ) and in the country I drove it, it was common practice to use sanders to aid acceleration in case needed.
     
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  6. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Right, if you use it as a driver manually, it is your decision to use it. That works too in the 101 in TSW. The question asked was why it not uses sand automatically. A 101 does not so. And i would say your 1992 ES does not too. And the reason is as i said, it was not supposed to use sand to prevent wheelslip or get better traktion. The loco has its own system to do that without the brake sand. You should know, as a driver, that the common use of that sand is to provide some support for braking, when the wheels start to slide. It is written down all over in the drivers manuals. I know, that drivers use it for acceleration too, but that was not the answer of the question. Ok?
     
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  7. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure if someone else mentioned automatic sander deploying, I was talking about manually doing it. Naturally you're right about the 101 not doing it automatically, but I was not talking about that.

    My question is regarding the locomotive's behavior when using sanders while putting traction. It should improve adhesion but it does not. Of course it would have less effect on extreme weather conditions. But on a dry summer day I find it hard to believe the 101 slips that much.

    Edit: It has come to my attention that the problem we are facing on this regard is not because of how the loco behaves in real life but how TSW2 adhesion works currently. I was told sanders have little to none effect to adhesion at all...
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
  8. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    Maik Goltz I have some questions/findings about the BR101 in TSW2 I wanted to ask you about.

    1. Starting the BR101 + 7 (loaded) IC from platform 12 at Duisburg. If I go straight into 100% power (no AFB etc) the power will increase up to about 60-62 kN/FM and then the wheels will start to slip. If I don't intervene the speedometer will oscillate and the F5 HUD will indicate wheelslip for around 18-20s, then the grinding sound will start and the locomotive looks to be in creep control. Is this prototypical?

    2. If I slowly advance the power I can find a tractive effort value that will keep the locomotive in full wheel slip for a nearly unlimited amount of time. If I then advance the throttle a bit further the locomotive will go into creep control. I.e. it seems as if you have to "pass" wheelslip to get into creep control. Is this prototypical or a bug?

    3. When in creep control (grinding sound + F5 HUD has the red sawtooth indicators around the speed but the speed is not changing back and forth), if I decrease power slightly I can get back into full wheelslip and then if I reduce power some more I get full traction (no creepcontrol). Is this prototypical?
     
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  9. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    only short answers yet, i'm not in the mood to discuss this to the tiny granular pieces

    1. Kinda, the super-slip starts at about 60km/h in the real loco, it will start earlier in TSW for sure, before that, you have macro-slip but not spinning axles

    2. That is not "full slip", it is the macro slip. So TSW shows slip, even if the axles do only slip for a micro-second and pulsing between no slip and macro slip. This also creates the oscillating speedometer. Full uncontrolled slip would give you a full drop of TE and a maxed out speedometer. Hard to get that with the 101 at all. Try it.

    3. Right, there you are in super-slip mode and you get stable slip, not an oscillating behaviour like in maxro-slip. If you take a deep look onto the speedometer, you could see a tiny increase in speed over the real speed, but only if axle 3 slips to. You may not know, i think no one already got the idea, but each axle on the 101 is controlled sperately. Each motor got its own PWR control and full independent slip control (that is one aspect why the setup took so long).
     
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  10. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha. Thanks for the information.

    "Full uncontrolled slip would give you a full drop of TE and a maxed out speedometer." Of course! Something I forgot to take into account.
     
  11. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    For the record, I spoke with a train driver who drives the 101 on his daily basis. He uses sanders to aid traction when needed.

    In other words, the sander CAN help with traction and that is what is not working on TSW2. This seems to be a general game engine bug ( or Simugraph bug ) and not directly related to the 101 itself.
     
  12. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    In general, the sander does work. On multiple occasions (in rain) I could put the throttle in position x if I used sand. If I didn‘t use sand, position x led to wheelslip. I‘ve never tried it on the 101, so I can‘t speak for that, but the sander does work in Simugraph.
     
  13. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much for this info - and for a truly fabulous loco DLC. This loco really helps to make TSW 2 very special.

    BTW.... when you say.....:

    "Full uncontrolled slip would give you a full drop of TE and a maxed out speedometer. Hard to get that with the 101 at all. Try it."

    .... I think that this exact situation can be reproduced in TSW 2 - but it isn't a problem with the DB BR 101 per se..... there is a core bug that could lead to this (for any train). But dealing with issues like the broken PZB light on the DB BR 101 on PS4 can lead to the conditions where this full uncontrolled slip bug (in core TSW 2) manisfests itself, and it can last for a minute or more. Which reminds me.... I need to report it at some point soon....

    Anyway - thanks again.
     
  14. jeremy#2905

    jeremy#2905 New Member

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    As far as I understand it, the AFB is limited to 160 km/h outside of LZB, so I'm pretty sure the AFB being locked to 160 is not a bug. I have used the 101 on LZB routes and had no issue with AFB up to 200 km/h.
     
  15. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Correct, AFB is limited to 160 when not under LZB influence. That might be a bad thing, but we want it prototypical at least.
     
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  16. Maverick_ng

    Maverick_ng Active Member

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    The ICE 3 has the same system on the AFB. On PZB it's limited to 160 too, so BR403/406, 101, 182, etc has their AFB working as they should.
     
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  17. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    To all console players, does LZB light up on the Br101, because when I turn it on only PZB lights up but not LZB
     
  18. Maverick_ng

    Maverick_ng Active Member

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    It does, but only when you spawn on a station and the 101 arrives to the station you are from far away. That issue is also on the DB BR182 and the same procedures do also work on that unit.
     

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