Building Lgv Méditerranée

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Nov 11, 2020.

  1. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    I understand your point, and in part I also agree. Problably this route (in real life) its not the most brilliant LGV section in fact of traffic experience. Probably, because I just seen that on some Youtube videos. But I suppose we are not traveling all the time at 300+ km/h, also because the 2 main stations are not built inside the LGV line (like happen for example for the Shinkansen railways where all the shinkansen stations are build inside the line) so we have to entering and leaving from the LGV and join the "traditional" railway to reach the main stations. Thats a bit different from the "mid-highspeed" sections between Köln-Düren and München Passing-Augsburg. I mean like structure for a modern high speed route (well protected/isolated from the boundary dangers like animal crossing, that the reason we run in a sort of permanent viaduct or rift). The gateway between the traditional railways and the LGV here are more "marked", like when driving our cars we left the traditional road to join (via ramp) the highway. I dont know if in real life Intercity and freight trains can potentially run over the LGV lines, at today. In the next years for sure.

    I looking forward for an add-on pack with the old TGV version, the first "Orange" Mediterranée.

    1024px-Deux_TGV_à_Paris-Lyon.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
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  2. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    This route is in TS1. The DLC for the route in TS1 also came with a new train and a route extension between Lyon and Marseille. Maybe with this new route building method we might see an extension like TS1?
     
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  3. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Hmm... I'm on the fence with this route. I'm very happy DTG does a non-UK/US/DE route, and that'd be a good reason to support DTG by doing a purchase.

    However, I'm not a huge fan of high speed. I already have this particular route in Train Simulator, and IMO it's not the most enjoying route to drive. (Actually, the part from Marseille just before entering the LGV-section is the most enjoyable part of the route IMO, but it's only a few kilometres). Additionally, while I do like the looks of some TGV trainsets, the Duplex isn't my favourite, and the new SNCF livery is far from my favourite as well.

    So, I don't have to buy it for the high speed experience, I don't have to buy it for the route, and I don't have to buy it for the train.

    I do kinda feel guilty though. I've been asking for non-UK/US/DE routes for a few years now, and the only way to really support DTG is by purchasing the non-UK/US/DE routes they develop. I just wish they had made another route, and I'd gladly would've made a purchase to support them without hesitation.

    Perhaps once they make a TGV Réseau DLC, like in Train Simulator, it may provide me with a reason to buy the route as well. The TGV Réseau looks absolutely awesome, especially in that silver/blue livery. (Although I hope a TSW TGV Réseau DLC would be of better quality than the TS TGV Réseau DLC, which gets mostly negative reviews on Steam, which is why I haven't purchased it, even though it's got to be the best looking train I've ever seen.) And while route expansions aren't being planned for TSW at this point, perhaps it may provide another reason to purchase this particular route.

    I guess I already knew this year wouldn't be the best year for me, since DTG announced since TSW2 the focus would be on high-speed. Happy for those people who like high speed, but I'm waiting for next years focus, whatever it may be.

    Still looking forward to non-UK/US/DE routes, but preferebly just regular commuter lines please :P
     
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  4. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Don't be mistaken about the route features. Some new signalling systems, a new train type there is a lot to break at the pure functional level, not to say anything about the scenery issues that may occur. This route is innovative in some aspects and I appreciate that. The only thing is driving a high speed train is boring after 15 minutes. I have the route plus the extension for TS and it really is not worth the money, despite the quality and effort put in it. (Sorry, I do not want to offend any French players,I appreciate the French high speed lines a lot for travelling, but not for playing a train simulation game).
     
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  5. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    Will came for sure!!! :D

    Marseille -> Avignon -> Lyon (-> Paris, from south to north)
    Marseille to Lyon are 315km of railway
    Avignon to Lyon are 232km of railway
    Marseille to Avignon are 105km of railway
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
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  6. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    If they extend it to Lyon, it would definitely become a hefty high-speed experience. Matt has been very sceptical about route merges before though due to the timetable. But if there are about 40-60 services here, it shouldn't be that difficult.

    The bigger problem is - if there are many people already saying they will not buy this route, will DTG be into making an extension that will have an even smaller customer base?
     
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  7. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    This route has a lot of new and potentially new features, so I'm guessing the relatively short length reflects that.

    This route adds
    • TVM
    • Classic French Signals and KVB/Crocodiles
    • New Autogen Scenery
    • Higher Speeds
    • Southern European landscapes and assets.
    Now there is something else that could be implemented - the LGV is 25kV but the area around Marseille is 1500V DC - so will the player have to manage the changeover (on the move when leaving the LGV) or will it be automated?
     
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  8. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    Many people who? :)
    3, 4, 10 customers here on the forum? :)
    Statistics are not a videogame. Do you really think all TSW customers (or TSW interested/potential customers) are signed here or on Steam? :)
    In TS1 you run in the total desolation enviropment, a sort of desert. Easy to built 500km of nothing. Several times DTG sais that TSW routes require a lot of time to be modelled.

    And I am not too idiot to talking against my interests but one thing its to asking for a reasonable content (like another TGV train model, so we will can drive 2 different TGV versions, the classic and the duplex) and another thing it's to ask for a 200+km of "extension" where, since the day one max route lenght it was about 70 or 80km (105km with the new LGV route).
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
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  9. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    As I said in the roadmap thread, I'm also fairly skeptical about this route. I do like high speed train (SKA is one of mi favourite routes for example) but here there's a combination of factors that make me think twice before buying.
    First of all there will be probably only one type of train and on the second hand how many timetable should we expect? 50? 60 at most?

    I appreciate the fact that DTG started to build some route outside the usual Germany-UK-USA loop, but probably they picked one of the least interesting...
     
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  10. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Looking back at the photos and comparing them to the real look of the route I think there are some things that should see a bit of a tweak (granted the screenshots are WIP, maybe it's been taken into account).
    [​IMG]
    upload_2020-11-12_13-37-26.png
    upload_2020-11-12_13-41-30.png
    (I am guessing this might be the same part of the route both in the screenshot and the video )
    Looking at these I think the screenshot is still missing the high-speed line "feel" to it". It mostly has to do with the catenary IMO. When you want to run at 320 kph, the catenary has to be extremely dense, pillar after pillar. The spacing between them in-game seems to be twice that of the real one. The second would be the ballast under the track. It seems very flat compared to the real one which sticks almost a meter high - also a thing that is needed for high speeds. These two together outline the "corridor" feel to the route that should be present. It is not a normal double track with fast trains. It is built for extreme performance and the screenshot does not give the same feel (once again it is WIP, it might change). If TSW2 route making is anything close to any other trainsim editor, the ballast is probably connected to the track model and catenary generating is probably also automated to an extent. This would make these changes probably a bit easier as you'd only have to change the model itself and it would (possibly) update on the whole route. This DLC has to offer something very unique and with it being solely TGV the TGV aspect should be spot on.
     
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  11. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    In reality, it looks more barren, desert-like.
     
  12. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    I imagine it would be unplayable on consoles if they tried to double the number of catenary wires and pillars.
     
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  13. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I would imagine with the amount of catenaries and overhead wires it would make it unplayable on PC as well.
     
  14. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    That definitely might be the case... but 4 track sections on HMA between Passing and Augsburg are performing fine. That's basically double the tracks, wires and pillars along with much more traffic.
     
  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Catenary poles load at about the same distance as the shadow draw on console. They fade in quite nicely but you do notice that they are missing in the near distance.
     
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  16. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    at about a minute into that video, when you look side-on it doesn't look quite so obvious. Front on view is a bit misleading IMO, it is foreshortened although probably a bit more spaced out than in real life.

    I was wondering what the scenarios will be?
    Drive from A to B
    Drive from B to A
    At different times of day
    ?
     
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  17. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    The OHLE needs to be placed closer to each other as mentioned already. Especially as this is high speed stuff, the higher the speed, the more supports you need.

    Regarding the performance issues, I’m sure DTG mentioned they have a fix for this in the bag?
     
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  18. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure there is a sizable demand for these high speed passenger routes within the community (judging by the popularity of the German routes) and those fans are absolutely entitled to them, of course. But, for me, from what I see so far, this route lacks some essential elements of railroading: stations, branch lines, freight operations, some traffic congestion etc. And, at those speeds, will the scenery ( need to) be as detailed as on, say, GWE or SPG. So, I guess my question is: Is this railroading or just transportation. Now, I live in a country which has little or no experience of high speed rail which obviously colors my perspective and, if this route turns out to be something different, I will amend my opinion. But, from what I see so far - not my cup of tea.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2020
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  19. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    I still think cess textures need a complete overhaul. Munich really exaggerates how flat and sterile their current textures and immediate trackside are. Load up Munich walking and stand in the 10 foot, look at the ground - im pretty sure the ballast is moving like a old static TV, at 144p too.
     
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  20. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    20201112200712-1.jpg maxresdefault.jpg

    its not the best example but this is what I mean, everything is too flat, clean, shiny, sterile.
     
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  21. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    20201112200532-1.jpg Sorry for spam, but this is what I mean about Munich, the texture appears to be moving if you stand and stare. I have noticed TSW2 flickers ALOT more than TSW.
     
  22. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I've noticed this too. There definitely seems something off with the anti-aliasing, as overhead wires and other things flicker A LOT more than they did in TSW 1. All on the same settings of course.
     
  23. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 has two features that save this route from being a total waste of 30.00.
    1,With senario planner & Off the rails mode you can...
    A.You can put the lgv on other routes.
    B.You can put other trains on the lgv route.
    Bonus...You can paint and relivery the lgv.
    So at least theres still some possibility available to save this route from obscurity.
     
  24. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    TGV* as LGV stands for HSL
     
  25. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Unless it's raining or foggy. IMO the game could use a few more colors for nearby scenery in those weather circumstances. It's all very gray-ish.
     
  26. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I watched a video of this route from TS with a certain well liked grumpy gentleman who started the video by saying something like “This route is rubbish but I really enjoy driving it” then went on to point out all the things he likes about it without really saying anything bad. The route looks nice and enjoyable to drive and it’s going to look and feel even better in TSW, and although on the face of it there may not seem like there’s much to it, it’s going to give players who like the fast trains plenty of hours of enjoyment. Driving at high speed is just enjoyable, and it has new signalling and such to get to grips with.

    It’s not ever going to feature some of the things some of the people want in a route but for what it is there’s going to be plenty to get out of it. And there is always the use of the train elsewhere and the use of the route for stretching the legs of any other trains in scenario planner for those who want a little more out of their purchase. What I see as vitally important is that the route runs smoothly without the jittery stuttering TSW2 is becoming infamous for. I have no issue with the inherent lack of variety in content because the real route has that and I’d rather have it as a choice to buy that not have it exist.
     
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  27. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    Did this persons name rhyme with Pallan Gompson?
     
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  28. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    This and SE HS are the only DLCs I am looking forward for the scenario designer.

    Can't wait for my Eurostar ICE3 to run on HS1 and a Thalys TGV to run on SKA. Hopefully the 406 will be upgraded with the french signalling and safety system as well but I'm not holding my breath
     
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  29. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Does 406 IRL have these installed?
     
  30. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Always worth a watch.
     
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  31. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    I saw the picture of the passengers working in the french vinyards,this is new,this could be a hint by dtg that this route has bonus extra stops,since tourist also ride the lgv maybe the lgv drops off tourist who want a taste of the vinyard life.(Otherwise if your going to add people to trackside areas they should not look like every passenger seen in every station and on every train,do vineyard workers wear dresses,tracksuits,coveralls,tshirts,hoodies,business attire?)
     
  32. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    artwork
     
  33. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure about the version we have in game TBH but there were BR406 (which are basically multi system version of the BR403) which were equipped for use in France, but the one we have might be a different spec, because SKA continues towards Brussels

    "[ICE3Ms - BR406] are used for cross-border runs between Netherlands, Germany, Belgium and France. On the French LGV Est, some trains reach a regular top speed of 320 km/h (199 mph)."

    Wikipedia is not the best source but in this case I think it will do.
     
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  34. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think that the BR406 still got the KVB as they’re not in service in France anymore due to some reliability issues they’ve been replaced by the BR407
     
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  35. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    There are dozen of videos on youtube. 406 3M and 407 Velaro can operate in crossborder services (I mean, over LGV line).


    Unfortunately in real life they dont run through Marseille and Avignon, like also Thalys and *Eurostar.

    *except this one: https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/eurostar-to-lyon-avignon-marseille.htm
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2020
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  36. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I somehow don't want to learn French signaling and rules so I'll skip that one.

    But I'm really interested in the outcomes of tool-aided-generated terrain, could speed up output drastically and maybe sets devs free for features and fixes
     
  37. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Something just occured to me: Will this route have a full manual? With a new country and new signalling and safety systems a manual is very important. LZB didn‘t have one when SKA came but that was just an addition to PZB which was not difficult to research. But with this route a manual (not a quickstart guide) is needed in my opinion.
    Was anything concerning this said in a stream or is it too early for this sort of information?
     
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  38. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Very good point. Not everybody will want to figure it all out for themselves or watch live streams like with some/all of the recent stuff.
     
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  39. w.lichko

    w.lichko Well-Known Member

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    Plus I don’t speak French, so finding manuals from the SNCF wouldn’t really work either. I guess we can always read the TS manuals for this route :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2020
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  40. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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  41. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Well-Known Member

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    Just hope it's £24.99 or less , I won't pay any more for what could just be a port of the TS21
    Lgv Méditerranée
     
  42. marceldiehr02

    marceldiehr02 Member

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    When comes this route?
     
  43. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Well-Known Member

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    It's in the upcoming section now so it's close, maybe a month or 2.
     
  44. marceldiehr02

    marceldiehr02 Member

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    Es ist keine Veröffentlichung am 19. November oder 26. November?
     
  45. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    It really looks likes the tgv is a fare bit wider then the lgv is it,or does the angled picture just make it look wider?
     
  46. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    They are both TGVs. TGV is the train, LGV is the line.
     
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  47. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    I ment the orange one looks wider then the gray one.
     
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  48. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    In the photos, I've put in? Well one is a double-decker, the other one is not, so one being taller makes the other one look wider.
     
  49. Jezame

    Jezame Member

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    I do hope the earlier orange TGV does get released at some point, it’s a fantastic looking loco.
     
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  50. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    The Sud Est is an iconic train, it would be great to have some iconic trains released independent from any routes so you could just run them wherever.

    On stream Matt said that they were looking at how to get locos separated from routes and Sam said that routes often decide the trains as you get whatever runs on them.

    There are plenty of well known trains though that would be great to have even if DTG didn't want to make their particular route. You could imagine they were guesting or visiting...even if not technically accurate.
     
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