C40-8w Brake Issue?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by kellanium#9517, Mar 23, 2021.

  1. kellanium#9517

    kellanium#9517 Member

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    The Dash 8 is by far my favorite SPG loco, but I've been having an issue where, in timetable mode, it's difficult to get the brakes to release along the train. The procedure I've been doing is

    Cut-out > Freight
    MU-2A > Lead
    Autobrake > Release
    Independent Brake > Full
    Reverser > Forward
    Throttle > N5, build to 1100 amps
    Independent Brake > Release

    Usually what happens is i get to about 1 MPH and then it slows down like everything behind the engine is pinned in place. I managed to get it loose today by backing the consist up a bit and then repeating the above procedure.

    I'm kind of at a loss. I love it when it works, and while I love the SD40-2, I prefer the big cab. Any ideas for things i might be missing?
     
  2. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Some pointers:
    1. Are the brakes actually releasing? Check the brake pipe pressure.
    2. Did you set up the trailing unit correctly? Especially the cut out valve and MU valve are of interest if there‘s a brake issue.
    3. Did your consist have helpers at the back of the train? Because of a (currently) non-functional banking comm, those services can‘t be done in the Dash 8.
    4. Did you wait long enough? It can take up to 5-10 minutes on long North American freight trains for the brakes to fully release.
     
  3. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    How many carriages does the 8:33 am Timetable Service make up?

    Because 1) you can play it even without Banking (simply by pulling the 2 rear locomotives. 2) With the keyboard, you can operate Banking manually, by manually operating the Throttle lever of the Lead Trail locomotive (the third one).

    Note: Banking Comm aside, how do you activate Banking without the radio? Because the C40-8W does not have one.
    I tested the same Service (the one at 8:33 am) first driving an AC4400CW (in banking therefore) and then repeating it driving a C40-8W (without banking, pulling the 2 rear locomotives).
    With the AC4400CW at the point of maximum incline (before the tunnel) I was above *25~30 mph. With the C40-8W, I was going at about *10~15 mph.

    * It depend on different weather assets.

    I don't have a keyboard to try banking manually (see point 2). But, if configured well, it should work perfectly.
    Anyway, or at least on Console (or at least Xbox One X) all services using the C40-8W are perfectly playable.

    8:33 am banking service with the C40-8W (without keyboard / configuring the Lead Trail loco -the 3rd- throttle to 8 before starting the service, then come back into the Front Lead Loco -the 1st- and release train and loco brakes).

    A) Here I travel just with the power of the rear locomotives in manual banking (Lead Rear loco throttle to 8, I used max throttle just for a test! Front Lead loco throttle to Idle, like on the Hud)
    Train Sim World 2® 2021-03-23 13-59-03.png


    B) Here along the maximum incline point before the Sand Patch tunnel (Lead Trail loco throttle to 8, Front Lead loco throttle to 8, I used max throtle just for a test)
    Train Sim World 2® 2021-03-23 14-37-57.png

    In banking the C40-8W performance are pretty close with the AC4400CW. Slightly less HP of the C40-8W so slightly less max speed (about 26~27 mph vs 30~31 mph) at the same point, with the same consist and the same weather.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  4. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Not really as far as I can tell. If I use the key combination to switch cabs, I only switch between the 2 leading locomotives, not the rear ones. If you really want to do that, you could do it by using the external camera and having SD40-2s as pushers.

    No. they‘re not. I believe it‘s the very first auto rack train from Cumberland to Rockwood. It‘s a 5000t train with no pushers. I tested this in winter, clear with 2x C40-8Ws and they stalled shortly after Hyndman. This disproves your statement.

    You can do this in theory, I guess, but if you want any sort of realistic experience, this is obviously not the way to go.

    Interesting findings. The Dash 8 should be significantly weaker (DC vs AC traction). My own testing with the service I mentioned earlier (first auto rack train to Rockwood) seems to support the C40-8W being quite a bit weaker since 2x AC44s managed with no problems. Appareantly, it is then correctly modelled that adhesion is very different for the two. I‘m quite intrigued.
     
  5. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    It is not a problem, anymore, I hope (I haven't checked yet)

    link

     
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  6. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Ooh :)
    Thanks for flagging this to me. I know what I‘m gonna try out tonight :D
     
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  7. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    And about cab switching:

    [CTRL][+] switching cabs (in a group of locos) A/B AB..[CONSIST]..AB
    [CTRL][-] switching groups A/B AA..[CONSIST]..BB

    I am very excited too! Enjoy :)

    EDIT... this formating :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  8. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    You‘re just a fountain of knowledge, aren‘t you? :D Thanks for enlightening me. Now I just need to figure out what that translates to on my German keyboard and I‘m set.
     
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  9. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I spend way too much time in front of the computer. But I like your explanation :D

    Yes. This is an issue. Maybe try to switch to other (ENG) language for TSW. I am using Polish-Programmers settings, but You are right this is tricky!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
  10. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    ...if you haven’t tried this already, try uncoupling and re-coupling to your set of cars- it might just do the trick. As someone else already mentioned here, you should also verify (using the HOTD device in the loco up front) that the EOT pressure is 89-90psi which should then allow the train brakes to fully release.
     
  11. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    So, I just tried it using this
    776FC62E-5EA3-4B51-9F81-BD7662CA6D70.png
    as a reference. [CTRL][-] did nothing for me while [CTRL][+] works. I also tried all of the other keys not corresponding to a letter, but none of them let me switch to the rear DPUs. Am I missing something or is this maybe not supported on PS4 with an external keyboard?
     
  12. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    1. Not sure.
    2. I will research the topic because it intrigued me a lot.
    3. I hope, someone else will be the fastest with a good solution!
    4. I will answer in this thread :)
     
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  13. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot. I really appreciate all your help:)
     
  14. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    It is about keyboard layout.
    It looks not to be hardcoded (so it is not a console 'issue' maybe)
    I've installed German to my Windows and tried - switching groups stopped working [CTRL][-]

    So, this is about input language (PC).
    Worth trying on console too I think.*

    Don't know how, but I am pretty sure there are some language settings - You have to figure it out :)

    Good Luck \o/

    *assigned to a console user - maybe this can be easily toggled
     
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  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You can remap your keyboard bindings in Settings.
     
  16. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I am afraid, not these bindings
     
  17. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I think you can change the keyboard language in the PS4 settings. I‘ll try it out and report here for the benefit of others.
     
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  18. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I tried changing the keyboard language. I used English (UK) and English (US). The change worked which I confirmed via writing in a chat, but [CRTL][-] still didn‘t work. Just to clarify - I checked that the key I’m pressing besides [CRTL] is actually [-] via chat. This also proved that the key itself works and it’s not some hardware problem on my end.
    I‘m fresh out of ideas - only thing I can imagine is that this is somehow not possible on console for some reason.
     
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  19. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    I see they have already answered you.
    This below is the 00:33 (first Timetable) service with snow in winter. Tested with 2 AC4400CWs and then with the C40-8W as Lead and the AC4400CW as Trail. They both passed the exam. Obviously the 2 AC44s push more, 14~15 mph against the 11~12 mph of the C40 AC44 combo you see in the picture.

    Note: I haven't installed the patch yet. But you are free not to believe me.
    Note 2: I also tried with the C40-8W as the Lead and the SD40 as the Trial, and after Hyndman (about 10 miles from Mance) it hung up.

    Train Sim World 2® 2021-03-23 19-13-00.png
     
  20. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t work on PS4. I’ve tried it in the past and only been able to use the + to move between connected locos. the - does nothing.
    The banking comm replaces the need to use the radio fuse. The banking comm takes care of everything.

    I haven’t checked the C40-8W banking comm since the patch but the mysterious dynamic brake issue on the GP38 is fixed on PS4. I haven’t tried any of the other locos that were affected by that yet.
     
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  21. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    My post(s) is prior to this afternoon's patch. Anyway, yes, my GP38 (on Xbox) has the dynamic brake (and maybe not only that) completely broken. I still have to install the upgrade, I don't know if it works now.
     
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  22. Costpap

    Costpap Member

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    Ctrl - not working on PS4 is definitely not an isolated issue. It has never worked for me either, which is a pity. I read somewhere around here that sometimes you may need to press the 1 key in order to confirm it, however, that does nothing either. To be honest, it kind of sucks because I'm not always in the mood to walk the length of 50 autoracks just to configure all of the lights properly, as well as a few switches which are missed by the Banking Comm's auto-setup feature.
     
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  23. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I think my shoddy memory is to blame here. Now that I think about it, it‘s possible that my research run was actually about 2x SD40-2s and they stalled in winter, clear. Be that as it may, I do feel terribly sorry for spreading misinformation as you clearly proved me wrong here. With today’s patch, it just might truly be the case that all services are finally doable.
     
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  24. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Not all from the Cumberland side. Weather and loco-config dependent. Some are impossible because of HP/T ratio.
    PS I bet, 7orenz won't check all the services today :D EDIT bad English
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  25. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes, I just meant the Dash 8 services. The run 7orenz did in winter, clear is the most demanding run, I‘d say. It‘s the same auto rack train that usually has 2 rear DPUs, but for some reason without rear DPUs. If the Dash 8 (even if it had the more powerful AC44 as a trail to be fair) can make that run in winter, then it should be able to handle all runs. At least as long as you haven‘t got an SD40-2 as a trail :D
     
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  26. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I see. In general, if I remember correctly, there is a problem with non-manifest* (mixed freight ones) NorthBound trains powered by SD-40s only (weather dependent, HP/T ~<1.5?). *manifest trains are always overpowered in SPG
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  27. kellanium#9517

    kellanium#9517 Member

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    Oooh! I hadn't noticed that reading the roadmap. Be riiiight back.
     
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  28. kellanium#9517

    kellanium#9517 Member

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    The Banking Comm does appear to work now.

    As for the brake pipe pressure, it routinely reads 89-90 but flashes back and forth between those about once per frame (at 60FPS), even after properly setting up the trailing loco.

    EDIT: i got a little confused. I actually can't get the HOTD to work at all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  29. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I did some run a minute ago - looks OK, I think. Maybe this is some funky (you are right, this happens) animation when air is still on the move (AFM indicates some value >0) :) Or sometimes it looks weird before start moving with Independent fully applied. I don't know :( Dash-8 is very tasty right now!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Even in RL, the BP pressure fluctuates a bit at the back of the train- just the movement of the air hoses between the cars will alter it.
     
  31. kellanium#9517

    kellanium#9517 Member

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    I'm still not getting a display on the HOTD

    Also earlier i was getting sparking from the trailing loco as if its wheels werent turning. I mean, it was a cool effect and a nice touch, but very frustrating. The trail was an SD40-2, HOTD/radio breaker open, MU-2A Trail 6 or 26, all controls off
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
  32. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Uhm. HOTD. It was so close. Maybe next time. We have to 'spam' Technical Reports about it. As Adam said - more complaints are better.
     
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  33. Jonsutt1

    Jonsutt1 Member

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    On PC, [Ctrl] [+] and [Ctrl] [-] will normally navigate you reliably between cabs of locos at head end of a train, but will only sometimes take you to any helper locos at the back. Sometimes if you get there, you can't get back again!

    It would be wonderful if DTG could make this more reliable.

    However, careful positioning of camera 3 allows you to look in open window of lead helper loco and observe gauges and even operate some controls though this varies acc. loco type.

    Banking comms and dynamic brake on C40-8W now work properly.
     
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  34. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    [CTRL][+] AB..CONSIST..AB
    [CTRL][-] AA..CONSIST..BB
    BR

    After last update it is all OK :) / except ETD / HTD ... dumb-train me <> now :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  35. Jonsutt1

    Jonsutt1 Member

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    Forgive me but what do AB AA and BB represent?

    I know what an EOTD is, but what is an HOTD?
     
  36. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    sorry for my simplifications - my Eng is hard to handle and I am lazy :)

    ABCD = locos
    a case like this one:
    A..B..cars..cars..C..D

    Press [ctrl][-] to switch from one end to another (A->C)
    Press [ctrl][+] to switch between A<>B or C<>D (when in C or D)
    Press [ctrl][-] to go back to the front of the train if CD

    Head Of the Train Device is that one in the cab showing EOTD values \o/
    Dash 8' HTD is showing no values :(

    PS another scenario (some Dash 8 services) A..B..C..D..cars..cars (same pattern with these bindings!) BR
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
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  37. Jonsutt1

    Jonsutt1 Member

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    Thanks Breb I'll try it out.
     
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  38. Jonsutt1

    Jonsutt1 Member

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    Just tried it out on service Q261 Cumberland to Rockwood with C40-8W as lead.

    [Ctrl] [+] toggles between cabs of both locos at front of train.

    [Ctrl] [-] only changes OSD to that of a rear helper (SD40-2 at back has instruments in different places on OSD) View doesn't change - strange!

    Pressing [Ctrl] [-] again changes OSD back again.

    EOTD is in place at rear of train and is displaying BP pressure. HOTD shows no pressure reading. However Emergency switch on HOTD does operate correctly and when turned on releases BP pressure at rear (albeit silently - I would expect much hissing). When Emergency switch is turned off again and with air brakes released, it is interesting to view digits on EOTD as system recharges. Numbers below BP pressure window also change! Anyone know what they represent?
     
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  39. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand :) ? Which numbers?

    dash 8.png
     
  40. Jonsutt1

    Jonsutt1 Member

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    I'm referring to numbers below pressure window on side of EOTD fitted to back of train. You can view it with camera 3.
     
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  41. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Oh :) I see. Maybe some serial number?
    PS Do you have a photographic memory? I couldn't say what they used to be :)
     
  42. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    That is likely the identification number for the end of train device. That number is needed to access the device’s telemetry in the locomotive cab. It is not modeled is TSW, but the device ID is typically entered into the upper right corner of the HOTD.
     
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  43. Jonsutt1

    Jonsutt1 Member

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    You can see the 5-digit number below the pressure readout on the EOTD changing value as pressure builds. I've ascertained that this 5-digit number is the unit's unique ID. In the real world this 5-digit ID would be entered into the HOTD by the engineer to ensure that the correct EOTD is being monitored.

    This number on the outside of the EOTD certainly should not change as the pressure builds following an emergency application.
     
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  44. Jonsutt1

    Jonsutt1 Member

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    JWS you beat me to it...
     
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