Cajon Pass: Prediction, Speculation, And Nit Picking Thread

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Blacknred81, Aug 9, 2022.

  1. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    So, going thru todays announcement, I've been picking apart photos and things to see what is and could be coming in the route itself.
    TSW3_Screenshot8.jpg

    The 2 locomotives that are coming to the route are the GE ES44C4, and the EMD SD40-2. For the most part the GEVO seems mostly correct, the road numbers look correct, though the side of the cab is missing the ES44C4 designation.
    [​IMG]

    As far as the SD40-2 is concerned, the road numbers are from about mid 2000's to about early 2010's. BNSF's SD40-2s that are still on the roster now fall around the 1591-1999 (Someone correct me if I'm wrong on the roster).
    [​IMG]

    Cajon Pass, does NOT look good......
    [​IMG]

    This is my 1st concern with the route, the vegetation in this shot of Cajon doesn't look very good. It looks way too arid and missing a bunch of plants. This is kind of a bit concerning......
    [​IMG]

    Rolling Stock.

    So the Maxi IV is coming to TSW, which is nice. This car is more appropriate for a modern stack train than the older very uncommon 56ft car. Its also a 3-Unit car, and seems to be in BNSF's Swoosh Paint.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The boxcar seems to be of a Hi-Cube Variety, but no clue if its a 50ft or 60ft boxcar.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    No visual on the Autorack or Bulkhead Flatcar.
    [​IMG]
    Snow
    So while it does indeed snow on Cajon from time to time, I'm wondering how far is it restricted on the route, because it barely snows any if at all in Barstow.


    Can't think of anything else to talk about atm.
     

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  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I would like to know if we will get working hump yards at West Colton and Barstow.

    Also will we get the ability to serve industries with local traffic as can be done in Run 8?
     
  3. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Thinking about this, I just realized we are not getting any 2 bay covered hoppers for the route, which would be needed for the Oro Grande Calportland Plant, and the CEMEX Victorville Plant. So how would those industries even be served?

    Also I don't think West Colton is included in the route, and I predict the Barstow hump will be like Cumberland's Hump, there but not in use.....
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    All I want to know is if the dynamic brakes will work on the 44. They were unbelievably bad in HSC version and not good at all in SPG version. The sounds were horrible in HSC as well so I’m hoping they won’t be used by DTG. I’m expecting the SD40-2 will be fine though, there’s not much wrong with that in other routes. I also want to be able to see the full length of my train in the distance (on PS5) because that’s an issue on Sherman Hill, only being able to see around 40 cars behind the locos.
     
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  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    As I feared then. Probably A to B runs with a few move these wagons from Track 3 to Track 5 then those on Track 6 to Track 4 and you’re done style scenarios.
     
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  6. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    My biggest gripe for this route only is just the locos themselves. But, I'm sure that's not gonna bother anyone for that, just the same repeated modern locos like Sherman Hill and Horseshoe Curve.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
  7. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I look forward to taking out the F7 and C40-8W for a spin in ATSF livery. ;)

    Cheers
     
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  8. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    I have to say, for myself, I am disappointed in have Cajon since this is the 4th mountain route for the US. How about some flatter terrain freight route. With having the BNSF license, there is a lot of miles along the transcon that they could have modeled and given us a 85 - 90 mile route.
     
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  9. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I would use the F7 in scenario planner but all the consists have locos at each end and no Banking Comm to make that work. Unless they have changed the formations since I last looked but I don’t remember CRR having an update to do that :(
     
  10. 21c164fightercommand

    21c164fightercommand Well-Known Member

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    no word on real DPU operations with those new ES44C4's with MFD's at least functional at Run8 level?
    4 traction motors, would be interesting to find out the new dynamic weather influencing adhesion, as it does rain and snow on Cajon Pass once in a while
     
  11. wxtr7

    wxtr7 Well-Known Member

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    No surprise the models look fantastic. Re the lack of the "ES44C4", I wonder if they purposely left that off for livery designer repaints? A good point is brought up about the scenery though. It's definitely more brown than green in the game screenshot and I hope this isn't another Sherman Hill scenery disaster.

    #1 thing for me is the audio of the ES44. I'm really hoping for the first time in TSW US freight, DTG was able to secure a realistic sound set for it, and maybe even the SD40-2 also. The MFD in-cab also needs to look like it belongs in a GEVO and not the AC4400, preferably with new functionality besides just cutting in the brakes - but that's just a wish at this point. The horn should also activate the bell (which hopefully will be an e-bell this time) automatically as is prototypical - not sure why this seems to have been dropped in recent past DLC.
    Substitution into other routes without needing scenario planner would also be nice since its not uncommon to see mixed operator locos on trains in the US.

    And since this is a freight route, I really hope its not just 85 miles of driving through green signals. I've gotten enough practice with other routes and trains that I know how to manage it up and down a hill. I'd like to see some other "interesting" bits that make the drive more interesting.
     
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  12. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

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    So you know how on intermodal trains on Sherman Hill and Horseshoe Curve, there were often well cars that had a long container on the bottom, and short on the top? Which looked ugly and unrealistic? These ones?
    [​IMG]

    I haven't seen any of those in Cajon Pass screenshots, which is a very good thing. It's a small thing that makes the intermodal trains look significantly better.
     
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  13. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    But... it isn't wrong. They're compatible, and you can see different length containers on each other.
    [​IMG]
    It is rare, but it happens.
     
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  14. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

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    Ah. Didn't realize that was a real thing. But to be fair, the key word there is "rare". I've never seen containers stacked this way on an intermodal train in my entire life, so seeing a bunch of these on each intermodal train really bothered me on Sherman Hill.
     
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  15. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Its actually there, I think it was missing in the pre release shots, but you can clearly see it in this shot in another video
    es44c4.png
     
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  16. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    TBF, the only real steep portions of Cajon IIRC is the Pass itself, its decently flat between Barstow and Victorville, and the bottom of Cajon to San Bernardino.

    EDIT: Between Frost and Barstow is less than 1%.
    cajon-map.gif
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I know I'm repeating another post, but that lower pic is uncharacteristically green; it was taken after recent substantial rain. Most of the year the area is really brown and very arid.

    Here is more typical terrain coloration:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. pveezy

    pveezy Well-Known Member

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    At the end of the day this is still a game/entertainment and not a job. The fun/challenge in US freight for most people is managing the train up and down a challenging grade. I think pretty much any US freight route ever added to TSW will be based around a steep grades. I guess Cane Creek was an exception but it’s also probably the least popular freight route.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
  19. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Having been to that area of Cali many times, the game screenshot is closer to the normal reality of the area than the photo you shared. That photo shows the region far, far, far greener than it normally is.
     
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  20. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I only used that photo because its the closest photo to the angle DTG chose to show in that photo. Either way the scenery is still sparse. (Which could be down to draw distance) But maybe IMO DTG should of chosen a better picture to showcase Cajon than a faraway picture with no shubbery anywhere on the ground.
     
  21. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good point but When going towards the other way around you don't want to end up like what happened in 1989 Cajon Pass where the SD40-2 SD50s crashed
     
  22. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    That was caused by faulty dynamic brakes, and incorrect train weight. And the locos involved were 2 SD40T-2s, 3 SD45R's and 1 SD45T-2.

    Not sure why you needed to bring that accident up. 4 people died in that accident, including 2 kids.....
     
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  23. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Back on topic of the route, found 2 more photos stolen from the video posted earlier
    1.png

    This is another view of Cajon Pass itself, with UP's Palmdale Cutoff and Canyon Siding in the foreground. The scenery is still way too sparse for the area, it needs more ground cover, not to mention Mormon Rocks to the left don't look entirely accurate.....
    2.png

    I know this still isn't the correct time of year, but you can still see how much more shrubbery there is in the landscape vs the WIP shot.
    599-cajon-railroad-train-mormon-rocks-r4983.jpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
  24. drgwfan3005

    drgwfan3005 Member

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    Shame, Mormon Rocks was an awesome photo spot irl, sucks that it isn't great Mormon1.JPG
     
  25. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Well it has to do with downhill Freight because if you're used to European freight trains you can simply apply train brakes to slow your self down. Some TSW2 locomotives have weak Dynamic brakes like AC4400CW Sand Patch grade
     
  26. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Scenery affects frame rate.
    Remember the effect of too much grass on Sherman Hill.
    This will have to run on older machines.
     
  27. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it makes me concerned about other notable locations and landmarks on the route
     
  28. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps someday we'll get Dash 9-44CW DLC for this route, since BNSF still operates couple hundreds of them to this day i believe.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  29. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    That would've been a lot better choice than another GEVO at this point. I mean, what is so special with the C4, it just looks like any other GEVOs on the outside.
     
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  30. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    The C4s are A1A since they are missing the traction motors from the center axle on each truck, as well as the variable traction control system they are equipped with.

    Weather or not DTG will include these features as accurate as they are IRL is a different story.
    Screenshot_20220810-102930_Wikipedia.jpg
     
  31. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    2 more photos from today's roadmap...

    1st photo is from around Hesperia, it actually doesnt look too bad and is much better that Cajon itslef IMO.
    TSW3_11-08-22_Cajon_Watermarked_Screenshots_2.jpg
    2nd photo I believe is San Bernardino, though it's quite odd seeing THAT much snow there....
    TSW3_11-08-22_Cajon_Watermarked_Screenshots_1.jpg
     
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  32. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

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    Is it just me, or did they choose more realistic colors for the intermodal containers? For the most part, these all look like the kind of colors one would see on a regular intermodal train.
     
  33. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Used to love running Big Boy on the old TS version.
    This would make an awesome DLC
     
  34. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, roadmap part 1 says that yes the variable TCS is simulated and fully animated.

    I don't recall any mention of safety systems unfortunately.

    Of the three routes, Cajon seems to have the most unanswered questions at this point.
     
  35. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    And after the stream, I'm just gonna take a grain a salt with the GEVOs now, more so than ever. Even I don't care if the C4 is special anymore, a GEVO is still a GEVO.
     
  36. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I feel like they could of included both a Gevo and Dash 9 if they wanted to, it probably wouldn't of taken them THAT long to modify the AC44 into a Dash 9 since the only MAJOR different between the 2 is the AC inverter cabinet behind the conductor side of the cab. Would of also been a nice mix of H3 for the GEVO and H2 for the Dash 9 to give a nice BNSF mix in consists. Hell could of incuded a ES44AC and ES44DC for more bang for your buck.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
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  37. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I would have preferred the ES44DC tbh. Their track record with AC locos isn't the greatest as of yet, especially the dynamic braking.
     
  38. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    True, it wouldn't really take that long to modify the AC44 to a Dash 9 (which I wouldn't mind for this), and it would indeed be lovely to add in the H2 livery to the mix as well.

    And while Cajon Pass does look like a very decent US freight to drive on compare to the other routes so far, I'm not denying that, but may still have the same problem of having 1/2 locos as a base per route (1 new, 1 reused pattern) with not many varieties to include (even if Sherman Hill gets layered in) depending on a route. Not to mention, there haven't been another US loco DLC in nearly 2 years now.

    So whether or not TSW3 will change that, with the decoupling method for future loco add-ons, may remains to be determined for now.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
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  39. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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  40. drgwfan3005

    drgwfan3005 Member

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    TBF looking at my photos of Cajon it's mostly Dash 9s and C4s
     
  41. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Right, my bad. Fixed it.
     
  42. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    So, hopefully DTG can nail a good chunk of unique visual assets and locations. I already have some worries with how Mormon Rocks were modeled, so we'll see over the coming month to see what else is modeled or isn't.....

    Santa Fe Smokestack (San Bernadino)
    [​IMG]

    Sullivan's Curve
    [​IMG]

    Memorial Site, track 3, 1996 Cajon Pass Runaway.
    [​IMG]

    Hill 582
    [​IMG]

    Summit
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Frost Flyover
    [​IMG]

    Mojave/Victorville Narrows
    [​IMG]

    Western America Railroad Museum (Barstow)
    [​IMG]
     
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  43. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    One other issue I also have is Cajon Pass included stock, or what's not included....

    These would be 2 Bay and 3 Bay Covered hoppers, reason being these would of been used at industries along the route.

    The 3-Bay Covered Hoppers could of been used for Ardent Mills plant in San Bernardino, so no unit trains are going there.....
    oof.png

    The 2-Bay Covered Hopper would of been used for the cement plants...

    CEMEX's plant in Victorville.
    aaa.png

    And CalPortland's plant in Oro Grande.
    599-oro-grande-cement-r8890.jpg

    For some reason DTG seems allergic to local freight services.....
     
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  44. akstorlied#2840

    akstorlied#2840 Member

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    We need passenger on this route.
     
  45. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    It is indeed weird that they would add in a new well car and a bulkhead to the mix, but not a single hopper (open or covered) included as well for industry sidings like these. This would beg the question on what would the SD40 do for both yard switching, as usual, and for locals, if it has any, on this route.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
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  46. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, there really isn't any other industry along the route aside from Hesperia, but looking at satellite images, those take Covered Hoppers (Weather grain or plastic pellets) So those really cant be accurate served either...
    b.png

    There is an auto ramp facility in San Bernadino, so maybe that? (Which could explain the autorack) but there really isn't any other industry out there.
    aaaa.png

    I think its safe to say DTG really needs to model a BNSF 3-bay covered hopper for the route, they already have the 3-Bay available from other routes, so maybe if we are loud enough they could get it done before September, but I doubt it.
    MRR_BNSF_NSC_5416_0122.jpg
     
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  47. DANtheWALLY

    DANtheWALLY Active Member

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    Beautiful route and it adds to the current collection of us freight routes. Because um we wanted more :/
     
  48. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Not counting SHG routes, its a pretty even split between freight and passenger.
    -Peninsula Corridor
    -Long Island Railroad
    -Boston Sprinter
    -Harlem Line

    -Oakville Sub
    -Sand Patch Grade
    -Clinchfield Railroad
    -Sherman Hill
    -Cajon Pass
     
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  49. DANtheWALLY

    DANtheWALLY Active Member

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    Yeah I mean i feel like it's become a meme with the US freight routes but yeah it's more even than I thought. I think it just annoys people when they ask for certain routes and dovetail are like ha no
     
  50. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, Cajon Pass was a top 25 candidate on the most requested routes for TSW a few years ago, so......
     
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