Can Anyone Confirm If The Map Is On The Map, Near The Map, Never Going On The Map Or Off The Map?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Dec 10, 2021.

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  1. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Just a nudge really with this post to DTG. There’d been some dialect about the map in passing on a few streams circa 6 months ago now (I’d guess with how quick time flies).

    The feedback being that the current map tells you nothing, no junction or station names etc etc. If I recall Matt had mentioned this was being looked at but nothing confirmed. Is the route map getting any closer to the roadmap?

    Are the team in a position to elude anything at the moment or should we assume still if “it’s not on the roadmap”?

    I’d love to see a map similar to Ts.what would others like to see on the route maps?



    SUGGESTION - As driver you can pickup a paper map, portable device, see it on a chart, or mfd screen in cab, whatever’s prototypical.

    Thank you
     
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  2. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If it’s not on the map….
     
  3. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    which map? :D

    Technically there’s nothing on either :cool:
     
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  4. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It’s got to be one of the next things to be looked at. Their last attempt at a map, the one in the pause menu, was a complete visual and navigational disaster zone so maybe when they do the proper map they can do a much better job.

    The map in Trainz wasn’t so bad a few years ago. Don’t know what it’s like in later versions, but it had lots of info and was generally very readable.
     
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  5. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    I really hope so. The map is dreadful.
     
  6. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I was playing on NTP earlier and what prompted me to think about it was I joined a mainline and the speed dropped massively so I oversped. Now whilst I could look at that fancy up and down line in the pause screen it’s not the same as pulling up the map, seeing a line join, junction name, speed limits etc for me to plan and assist in route learning
     
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  7. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    We've been banging on about this since TSW launched, though I haven't heard many drumbeats recently. Thanks for bringing this issue back to the front burner. I'd love to see the TS map format on TSW.
    There's a bunch of ancient issues in the game, this included, which I think many of us just get so tired of campaigning for, that we just accept that they may never be addressed. I expect to live to be 100, and I will put all the outstanding issues in TSW on my tombstone.;)
     
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  8. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    The current pause menu map is pretty much useless and I wish hasn't been added at all. It looks bad, is barely functional and provides little useful information. The 'true' map is also useless, only being useful for changing points (which is actually quite difficult on controllers anyway), and still looking like it's come straight out of CSX Heavy Haul. In an ideal world, the map would be functionally based on the 'true' map, with general location markers for places, and when you zoom in you could see individual markers for sidings and platforms. Hopefully it could also show speed limits alongside signals.
     
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  9. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Really, for starters all they would need are a few fixed labels for the major stations and yards, and dynamic labels for each siding (like in TS). Later on they could build upon this even further, but as a start, just a few labels would really help people out.
     
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  10. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Funnily enough, they tried putting labels in the map and it resulted in the game crashing. That‘s why looking at the map is a big project and not a simple let‘s start with some labels kind of deal.
     
  11. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Really? Havn't heard this story yet, but sounds interesting, lol
     
  12. sergio volodstok

    sergio volodstok Active Member

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    I personally really would like for the real time map to display gradient info. The pause menu gradient screen really isn't that helpful, because it does not display what the upcoming grades actually are; it just shows a bunch of lines that aren't really useful.
     
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  13. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Matt talked about it a long time ago. If I recall correctly, it was in the stream dedicated to showing how the Unreal timetable editor works.
     
  14. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    How can you change the score using the map
     
  15. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Points is the UK term for switches. Doomotron is talking about changing switches in the map, not about score.
     
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  16. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if it would be possible to deliver an experience similar to a sat nav. Could the game stream in satellite imagery from Bing or google to show the blip of the train overlaying.

    I think that would be pretty smart, zooming in for more layers but I guess that would hinge on route vs map accuracy
     
  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Also, more licensing fees. Google doesn't give that imagery away.
     
  18. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Test Drive Unlimited did that (using the game world, not Google Maps), even on the PSP and Nintendo DS. But for that Dovetail would need to build the rest of the world in some detail so it doesn't look like a random snake of track in a field of nothing. But I don't know if it would be actually worth it.
     
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  19. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    Thanks
     
  20. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling this will be a 2022 core update (here's hoping).

    I do hope if they do update the map they poll what people would like to see on it
     
  21. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I did query this I believe in the end of year stream. Be good to understand what’s been tinkered with and if it’s progressing
     
  22. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Well-Known Member

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    I've always wanted to see a small, discrete, 'route knowledge' box that could be turned on or off. When on, it would say things like "Signal XXXX approaching" or "Speed increased to 30 at the next signal", "Down gradient commencing", things like that. That way, the more you do the route, the less you need it and can turn it off. Conversely, getting back into a route after a long time away, turn it back on to learn it like the back of your hand again.
     
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  23. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    That is such a neat suggestion and probably a lot easier to implement than the current graphs we have in the pause screen.
     
  24. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    This wasn’t unfortunately answered in end of year stream. I have asked again following Sam asking on the end of year q and a thread what remained unanswered
     
  25. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    And Sam already answered as well:
     
  26. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Ah, thank you. Hadn't spotted that one :cool:
     
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  27. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Consider this a necrobump as there’s been no response from DTG since dec 21
     
  28. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    It's one of those elephants in the room that DTG never talks about.
    It's quite crowded in there. Tusk to tusk, in fact.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2022
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  29. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    There was whispers along the lines of:

    • We'd like to
    • If it's not on the roadmap
    • It's not an easy fix

    If I recollect that was around May /June time but since then NADA.....

    I wouldn't want to gamble my life on it but I dare say a new map even formulated part of the scoping for TSW3 and if it did was put in the VR and Multiplayer bin swiftly as part of the annual release.....
     
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  30. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Maybe for tsw 4, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it.
     
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  31. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I'm sceptical too as we've asked since early incarnations. It's never really spoke about . I'm not sure I can cope with another round of "will my tsw 2 be updated with tsw4" and "why isn't tsw4 free" chats.

    I don't think I can cope with that again
     
  32. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    It's never happening. Somehow it's very complicated and/or resource intensive.
     
  33. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Is it a map? I thought it was just a badly drawn line with some dots on it.
     
  34. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to understand why it's so hard to make a proper one when it's senior citizen simulator elder had one that performed splendidly in comparison
     
  35. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Surely it can't be difficult to put the names of stations on a route map. I guess Microsoft, EA, Rockstar, TML studios and SCS have difficulty putting names on their maps then if dtg can't even do it after 5 years
     
  36. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    After 3 or4 major revisions of the game and numerous core updates plus the regular bleatings from forum members, it comes down to:

    1. They can't do it because they don't have the tech.
    2. They can't do it because it uses too many resources.
    3. They don't want to do it.
    4. They considered doing it last year/ this year but it ended up quietly in the circular file ( as per chieflongshin ) for one of the above reasons.

    Whatever the explanation, they don't care to talk about it and it almost certainly isn't coming in this millennium.
     
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  37. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    It seems that dtg will only be able to answer that question. If they ever do.
     
  38. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Would be nice to at least have some sort of vague terrain colours on there, like you get in Zwift (virtual cycling 'game' for turbo trainers) so you can at least see where hills and bodies of water are relative to your position on the rails. Refuse to believe it's that complicated - plenty of UE games have maps far more complex.
     
  39. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    It would be nice to get some further updates from the team. Perhaps need to bang the drum more now.
     
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  40. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think 3 or 4 is the best answer to be honest.
     
  41. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    In the absence of any official maps would people be interested in https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1raD-KZB4ZcApP1fJpBDJREn8ildmJro&usp=sharing

    Ive just been messing about for the last 30 mins or so and came up with this.

    IF people are interested I might get time to finish this and do some others, Ive colour coded the markers as such

    Yellow - distance signals
    Red - Home signals
    Green - change of gradients (I may scale this with the darker the green the steeper the grade)
    Purple - change of speed limits.

    Incase the link doesnt work heres what it looks like sofar.

    Ryde St John Prototype Map.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
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  42. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Personally whilst I like the above it’s the line names, sidings, junction numbers etc I liked on TS
     
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  43. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that would be a lot of work and really practically only going to come from DTG themselves, which seems unlikely.
     
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  44. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a nice effort, but, on a freight route, especially when switching in, say, Barstow Yard, multiple track diagrams, siding names and mile posts are the useful elements.

    Can't for the life of me understand why this is such a problem for the developers.

    I mean if they can solve complex problems like the download manager and save game........??
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2022
  45. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    It could well be that in relation to US yards etc, the license holders dont want DTG sharing detailed maps showing siding names etc under the guise of anti-terrorism/crime prevention in the public domain and that DTG are using semi-fictional names which would make a community map pointless.
     
  46. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Some time ago, Matt said that they tried just that and it resulted in the game instantly crashing. No, I'm not joking. My guess is, since the map is as old as CSX:HH, when DTG first put it together, they put in some major blunders (lack of experience with Unreal) and now it festered so much that the one we've got can't be fixed and a new one is too much work and/or risky to implement.
     
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  47. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think this is kind of what I recollect that said, 5 years in development is an eternity to rebuild and fix something, equally, 12 months since this post, issue being raised countless times before I did is also a significant time. It would be nice to see if appear on the roadmap one day
     
  48. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    You would think after 5 years they would try to optimize it. My guess is that it must be difficult then. I wonder what is the root cause of the performance problem for the map when you add letters/names of stations
     
  49. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it has something to do with it being a "live" map that has to constantly update the positions of the trains?

    Not quite sure why adding labels would make it so much worse....

    I'd be happy with just a static track schematic that we could pull up in the menus.
     
  50. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Given that Matt talked about it instantly crashing, I doubt it's a performance issue. It sounds more like a missing dependency and/or file corruption to me, but then again, I'm not particularly knowledgeable in this area. Can't imagine what's going on under the hood to make the map such a can of worms.
     
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