Can Dtg Save The 150/2 Car Crash?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by ghawk2005, Nov 12, 2021.

  1. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I am devastated with the mess Rivet have created with the 150/2. Was really looking forward to this as it *looked* amazing. Unfortunately there are so many inaccuracies and physics issues that I cannot use it in the game. I know the unit too well.

    It has been a week now and no announcement or fixes have surfaced. This got me thinking. DTG obviously proved they can do a great job when working with AP sounds as we have the great Class 465 to prove that. I think with Rivet’s attitude displayed so far it’s unlikely they’ll take our feedback and do anything with it. Despite the unit desperately needing it. It is just not drivable in its present state. I have already sent my feedback but have copied it below with the pure hope that someone at DTG cares enough about the community and quality of their products going out to actually work on the unit.

    This was the feedback I sent rivet which just got… ‘we’ll pass on to our dev team’ but nothing has been done about it and it’s been well over a week!!! Armstrong powerhouse would have had it fixed in just a few days. (Not that they release buggy content )



    Hi

    As I mentioned in my Facebook post - lots to celebrate with the 150 now. Lovely improvements as I listed. However, Still a few things to fix. I am going to provide some feedback that should be passed to the physics / sound team please.

    * * *
    150/2 Urgent Fixes Needed

    Acceleration is too brisk to 30mph.

    Full power acceleration should be… ( timed from when unit starts moving )
    0-10mph - 7-9 seconds ( not 4 seconds )
    10-20 mph - 10-11 sec
    20-30mph - 14-15 sec

    Once past 30mph it seems great.

    Brake Notch 1 should allow ALL notches and revs for throttle. Shouldn’t be limited to notch 2 in brake step 1. Nothing should be allowed in brake notch 2 or 3 though.

    Should be a 2 second delay between really loud rev up, and moving off ( and as mentioned above this is far too quick at the moment, Not just the delay moving off, but also the accelerate rate.

    Internal ‘Brake rub’ is not audible at all and should be the very distinct rubbing sound as you can hear at 2m10 in the linked video. It is very prominent and characteristics to all tread brake 2nd gen DMUs. This is a big big feature for many people. Myself included. It is not a quiet sound. If it is there we can’t hear it so it needs to be MUCH louder.

    * * *
    Small enhancements tweaks needed
    Brake squeal should only come in at around or below 5-6mph when coming to a stop ( on average )

    Track joints can be a bit louder.

    Revs should spool down to idle slightly quicker going from notch 7-off
    * * *

    One of my piano students drives these every day so as always I am very happy to help in any way I can. He is a very useful reference person to have
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2021
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  2. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Active Member

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    They can't even fix IOW or Arosa. Rivet should feel ashamed and dtg should feel embarrassed
     
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  3. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Yes agreed.
    The only people who are saying this 150/2 is ‘okay’ are the people who don’t know the unit. Clearly never been on one for sure. I’ve spent my whole life on the things.
     
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  4. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Member

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    I would've been happy with the unit even if the sounds and physics are not 100%, but it has so many bugs I lost count. DRA stops working after you shut the doors, bugged lights, ghost braking, Cornwall poster inside (can't believe no one looked at it, St. Earth is there twice) etc.

    And pricing this at £25 is truly unacceptable. Glad I refunded it and spent it on two kebabs, felt more content after that.

    I play a lot of indie games, and cannot name any where obvious bugs like these are not fixed within days. If that's the best Rivet can produce, I won't be sad if they go bankrupt.
     
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  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I think the question is not so much "Can", but do they even "Want" to?
    A diplomatic response to the issues could have been posted even if DTG don't want to do the washing in public.
     
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  6. kurtosizm

    kurtosizm Member

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    The route was delayed, I wonder how bad it was before... We're talking about the 'updated, polished' version here. :o
     
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  7. zzw1983

    zzw1983 Active Member

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    Some of y'all are going to OD on all that HOPEium.
    Once Rivet has your money, it's over.
     
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  8. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Let's hope at least Skyhook gets their... something... together and fixes its products.
     
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  9. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    A “train wreck” would be a more appropriate analogy, but in this case Rivet got it sort of half right (the model), so let’s say a “serious derailment” as the systems (simugraph?) and audio are obviously in need of life-saving surgery. As to whether it will be done, Rivet more or less intimated in the launch stream that nothing beyond a few bug fixes are anticipated for WCL. :(
     
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  10. flghttrainsm#6320

    flghttrainsm#6320 Member

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    Or they can't be bothered to watch a couple of YouTube videos of 150/2 setting off you can clearly hear the difference in YouTube video
     
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  11. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    The exact reason I refunded WCL!
     
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  12. flghttrainsm#6320

    flghttrainsm#6320 Member

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    This is why I still use TS I was hoping by now I would be starting to moving away from but with tsw2 the lack of some routes , crappy auido on some trains , broken physics , the diabolical 150 from rivet ( in the sense of simulation) no other sprinters or Pacers etc
    In TSW2: I mainly drive the class 166 with the amazing sound pack mod and 377 with sound mod mod
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2021
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  13. flghttrainsm#6320

    flghttrainsm#6320 Member

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    I didn't buy it all , there previews of what I saw and what they saying convinced me otherwise , also never preorder anything
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2021
  14. flghttrainsm#6320

    flghttrainsm#6320 Member

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    The real question is do they want to put all the time and effort in too fix the class 150/2 and can they ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2021
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  15. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    One quick watch of a 150/2 YouTube video and anyone can hear the train in TSW 2 sounds nothing like the real thing - despite having the AP sounds. Rivet has blamed Simugraph - but that’s not good enough. If their build of Simugraph for this train is faulty, then it should/must be put right. They can’t just leave it the way it is. This half-arsed attitude is not excusable and the reason I won’t be buying the route as it currently stands.
     
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  16. flghttrainsm#6320

    flghttrainsm#6320 Member

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    Exactly you don't even need to be train enthusiast to realise this seems like they put all the effort on the visual model for causal gamers who get a boner or anything that has nice graphics looks and scrimped on the simulation aspects of physics ,etc etc for us simmers
     
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  17. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I think this is what the vast majority wants to see Rivet do, I just don't think it's ever going to happen.

    Rivet do not care in the slightest for proper attention to detail, nor doing the most basic research when it comes to the actual building of the routes/rolling stock. What I found most surprising was the fact that they were given AP sound files for the 150 which if being honest doesn't deserve it much at all as it has been so poorly engineered/woven together and as you mentioned the notches just don't sound right at all.

    As others have mentioned elsewhere I have noticed improvement but it's simply not at an acceptable pace, their quality is still sub-par and aren't developing as nearly as many DLCs for TSW as DTG are which if I am honest hope stays that way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2021
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  18. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    The crazy thing is, they put so much effort into making the train look good, then ruin by making it drive and sound rubbish. What’s the point in making it look great, if you can’t be arsed getting the other stuff right? If Rivet are struggling with Simugraph, they should have asked DTG to help, rather than create the mess it has. The eerie silence from both Rivet and DTG is deafening, though we continue to let them get away with shoddy work by buying it.
     
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  19. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    It was exactly my reason why i changed from ts to tsw2 after investing a LOT in dlcs to support devs.

    After i saw the details and improvements i was sure devs passed the point of "ts standard quality" , which was normally only 3 possible buttons working in a cab, a massive lack of train behavior etc .

    Now there is a new engine, and simmugraph, where its possible to create a train with almost accurate behavior.

    BUT NO, instead of using those benefits go create a true immersion, some devs still release content in a state, where !the community! Has to tell them that physics are entirey wrong.

    Ts is outdated from some perspective and limited, so from that point im happy i changed to tsw2.

    Anyway, yesterdays interview with maik about the vossloh g6 shunter gave me hope that this all still goes in the right direction in terms of accuracy and PASSION.


     
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  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    As evidenced also by Joe the Fish' spectacularly dense timetable for BML. Doing good simulation requires a certain degree of obsessiveness, it isn't a job for clock-punchers.
     
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  21. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    You say that like not going on a 150 is a bad thing
     
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  22. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    They’re amazing little things.

    this isn’t about whether you like them or not. This is about a VERY under par quality DLC release that needs urgently fixing.
     
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  23. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Active Member

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    Its rivet. If they haven't fixed IOW or Arosa, you've got no chance.
    Rivet are plain trash
     
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  24. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    What I'm disappointed in also is when Rivet are complimented on the way they did the sea and asked if they put it in IOW and they said NO.

    DTG but especially third parties should really take a hard decision on sound. IMO they should use AP not only for the sound but the mixing to, they have shown they struggle with it and third parties even more. When they have trained someone up who is as competent as AP fine but why do we have to suffer in the meantime because you cut corners?
     
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  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    AP don't mix for TSW2; they don't work in UE at all. Every TSW train with AP sound files was mixed in-house.

    Nor are the 150's sound problems simply sound problems. The loco sounds wrong because it's modeled incorrectly mechanically, so the Simugraph foundation which calls sound files is wrong to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
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  26. jmhdc812

    jmhdc812 Active Member

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    I find this all really interesting, as well as eerily familiar. Over several decades, I've seen very similar threads pop up on flight sim forums. It would seem that Rivet is quickly becoming the "Abacus" of the train sim world. ;)
     
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  27. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Didn't realise they didn't work in UE at all. I saw some of their work in TS and it sounds amazing with some volume on it as well. I'm sure DTG think trains are quiet. I wonder if AP could be tempted to come to UE? They have plenty of work there, yeah?
     
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  28. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    personally I don't think there will be any other acknowledgment about this from rivet

    they might get out In the "we'll take a look and patience " corner as normal but they been in that with arosa and iow for a year.

    I feel stupid not refunding this mess
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2021
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  29. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Don't you guys remember? The release wss delayed, this IS the version saved by DTG!
    It makes me wonder how it was before... Probably exactly the same, but without the layers from NTP.
     
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  30. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    This ⬆️

    the ironic thing is Jasper_Rivet said on the Rivet forums ‘that we always to try to fix our products’
     
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  31. zzw1983

    zzw1983 Active Member

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    I am going to be blunt. This game will not change for the better until AP start creating content (Jointed Rail for NA content), or even Just Trains, and the user is able to edit the game like legacy train Sim. If it were not for AP, I wouldn't even touch RailWorks. Until then, expect more of the same for as long as this game is published.
     
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  32. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    I dunno. Maybe it’s my imagination but I’m sure I notice a marked improvement in the 150/2 sound between the first stream and the released product. They just need to finish the job now!
     

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