Can We Work Toward A Better Scoring System?

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Jon from Rhode Island, Dec 13, 2021.

  1. Jon from Rhode Island

    Jon from Rhode Island Active Member

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    I tend to think that the way TSW2 scores driver performance is overly crude and simplistic, leaving out multiple variables that bear directly on safety and comfort.

    I suggest that for passenger services, the rate of acceleration and deceleration at station stops and signals be taken into account in order to reward smooth starts and stops. I don’t think any operator wants drivers to compromise on this aspect of the job even when behind schedule. The only adjustment necessary to make up time should be acceleration to a track speed limit in cases where timetable speed is lower than track speed for whatever reason.

    For freight routes, passenger comfort metrics would be replaced by fuel efficiency and engine stress.

    I also think that the applicable speed limit on the HUD (which I assume is used for scoring purposes) needs to account for signal speed as well as track speed, especially on German routes.

    A more robust scoring system would help drivers optimize their runs and create really satisfying challenges especially in bad weather and bad traffic.
     
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  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Personally I would like to see a complete overhaul of the scoring system, maybe even a proper career mode. The latter is kind of what Journey Mode tries to do but of course as some of the scenarios and runs are broken you get so far then become stuck.

    I certainly think there should be harsher penalties for infringements as you really have to overspeed before you get zero AP when significant overspeeding should see points actually deducted. A SPAD would see you lose all points on that run, but perhaps could be recoverable rather than game over. Likewise missing a station stop - at present it just puts the run into limbo as, unlike MSTS, if you carry on to the next station the previous stop persists rather than dropping off after a certain distance run past. So running by a station would become recoverable but at the cost of (say) 1000 AP down to your score being zero for the run.

    You could even have a hard mode where points continue to be deducted from your lifetime score and could, in a proper career mode, lead to demotion and having to work up through the ranks again.
     
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  3. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    How about an option that would allow individuals to turn off the scoring system completely? That would suit me just fine and my guess is that I'm not alone in this.
     
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  4. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    [CTRL]+[6] is your friend.
     
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  5. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    You can choose to ignore the scoring system. You can hide the HUD element so it won't bother you while driving, and there's really no need to stay in the end-scoring screen after your run.

    Although I don't really use the scoring system, I think the biggest disbalance in the current system is that commuter services can accumulate considerably more points than any non-stop intercity or freight service.
     
  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Not for console players unfortunately
     
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  7. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yes i would like the scoring system to be disabled. Train operators don't get a gold medal when they complete a service in real life. It shouldn't be difficult for dtg to have it as a option in the settings so it's something that I would like to see in tsw2
     
  8. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Not for console players without a keyboard. I‘m on PS5 and [CTRL]+[6] is definitely my friend :)
     
  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    So then if it's a option on a keyboard, then dtg could make it an option in the settings. Not every console player has a keyboard either so a option in the settings would be welcomed
     
  10. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Creative Director Staff Member

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    By all means put together a community proposal for changes to the scoring system and I'll put it into the consideration list. There is definite room for improvement, including the ability to toggle scores on/off.
     
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  11. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking that to solve the disbalance between commuter trains and other trains, points should be awarded for more than just passenger stops. I'm thinking like giving points to coupling / uncoupling to let shunting operations benefit more. Since the challenge in freight trains is mostly about the tonnage of the whole consist, perhaps let scoring depend on the tonnage or consist length.

    And instead of award points for driving a certain distance under the speed limit, I'd like to suggest to add points for driving a certain timeframe under the speed limit, so that slower routes or trains benefit just as much as any high speed operations. Perhaps awarding points for travelling a certain distance should be removed completely, because intercity services wouldn't benefit from the points awarded for the frequent passenger stops, neither would they benefit from my suggested points for shunting operations or tonnage.

    Passenger comfort could be a thing to add, but personally I think fixing the current disbalance between different types of trains should be prioritized, before adding even more to the disbalanced mix. I'm not sure if cargo has any kind of such a feature (could cargo even be damaged when accelerating/braking too fast, as far as that's even possible with a freight train?). Wheelslip also comes to mind to affect scoring, but that makes winter runs more challenging than summer runs, so would need some kind of mechanism to compensate.
     
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  12. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    So in that hardcore mode this could be your "reset profile" button ;):

    Screenshot_20211220-121154_Chrome.jpg
     
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  13. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    It absolutely is. Freight may be more forgiving than passengers, but can still be damaged if handled improperly. Especially when considering North American trains, damage to couplers or because of improper slack handling are very important considerations.
     
  14. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    I like this idea although I think it's too easy to manipulate because if the points get rewarded every 60 seconds you could drive half the speed limit and get double the points in the same distance, what I would suggest is that the distance is linked to the speed limit, so if the speed limit is 100mph you get points awarded every 1000m but if the speed limit is 25mph you get points every 250m, that way if a route is quarter the speed and distance you will still get the same amount of potential points as the longer faster route :)
     
  15. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Unless you're driving a train that can't keep up to the speed limit, such as a shunter, heritage train or freight train.
     
  16. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Creative Director Staff Member

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    If you're trying to create parity between scoring for freight and passenger you'll have a tough time of it IMHO. Better to figure out how scoring might be improved in isolation to make the balance between achievement and challenge as entertaining as possible.

    For example - capping the "medal" at bronze if playing without safety systems, capping it at silver if playing with the HUD on... just suggestions, but you get the idea.
     
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  17. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly a thing that should be considered.

    SMH: King of the Hill - Reach Route Level 20 on Sherman Hill
    full road run 2,5 - 3hours around 8000AP - HARDCORE
    DRA: Inc-Radebeul - Reach Route Level 20 on Nahverkehr Dresden
    full road run 55min arroud 14000AP - GOOD
    SMH: Aced it! - Operate the SD70ACe for 200 miles - equal to 3 full route runs - TOO EASY
     
  18. Jon from Rhode Island

    Jon from Rhode Island Active Member

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    I think part of the trick is benchmarking performance to individual operator requirements. For example, what are DB’s rules for drivers about when to initiate deceleration before a station stop? Playing by the rules, even those that we think are arbitrary, is the true challenge of train sim. Anyone can get from Koln to Aachen after a few minutes of futzing with the controls. But 90% of those casual players would be immediately fired for one thing or another. I want to try to be the best, not necessarily the fastest or the most accurate.
     
  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, dragging Mark Is with a Gronk up West Somerset's grades never puts you at risk of speeding.
     
  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, really to capture it requires, first, realistic length trains (Sherman Hill marks a start in that direction), and modeling the possibiity of brake fade/failure and coupler failure/separation. As well as (on all trains) model derailment due to overspeed in curves.
     
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  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Interesting re DB. There is actually a free simulation endorsed by DB on the tablets, well iPad anyway, not that extensive just a route and handful of trains. However one of the main objectives is energy management, i.e. coasting or the amount of power you put back in the overhead using regen braking. It's something that should certainly be considered in TSW, though so far as diesels are concerned I can't even see any indication these physically use fuel in the game. There's certainly nothing on the HUD as you see in classic TS to show diesel levels.
     
  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    There is, actually; those locos with fuel gauges (Class 66, BR 363, G6) show consumption; and although I haven't checked it I would guess that those trains with external fuel gauges by the fill port also will show a difference between the start and and of a run. Simugraph does calculate onboard fuel, including its weight.

    The thing is, no service in TSW is remotely long enough to put a dent in a diesel's capacious tanks, or make a fueling stop necessary.
     
  23. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Agree re length of run Bill, though in theory if the save game was reliable and you kept going with the same loco or DMU you might have to think about fuel. ISTR heritage units like the 101 had a fuel range of 550 miles on a full tank. Non twin tank 47s i.e. those in the game were 450 miles or 440 for the ETH variant. 33s were 650 miles and 31s 575 miles. Peaks were I think 500 or it might have been 600 miles.
     
  24. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    One other item that ought to be scored is correct use of the warning horn. At the moment there is no penalty if you fail to sound the horn at a whistle board or when entering tunnels etc., or for using the horn during the "quiet" period - generally 2300 to 0600. In the old Densha de Go you also had random spawns of track workers by the side of the line and you were also expected to sound the horn to warn them. You could even have an animated lookout man giving the wave of acknowledgement when you do so correctly. Failing to sound the horn for a whistle board would cost 200 AP, failing to warn lineside staff deduct 1000 AP.

    However don't go as far as one or two of the 3D Train Stuff US routes where failure to sound the horn terminated the run!
     
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  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Of course, that would mean actually putting in the whistleposts (I'm looking at you, Clinchfield)
     
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  26. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    You would probably need an "X" or "W" icon on the hood too, highlight the very small signs such as on Peninsula Corridor where they come thick and fast. As an aside, I'm having a whale of a time running a limited stop service with a Baby Bullet, virtually continually on the horn...
     

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