Dovetail Games Cargo Line Vol.3 - Intermodal Feedback Thread

tested: this time the wagon hand brakes set and release as indicated on the wagon.
So let's fix Aggregates Cargo HOA hopper wagons !
And the Cargo pack Petroleum TEA tanker wagon handbrakes also apply and release backwards: they are labeled ON clockwise and OFF counter-clockwise.
Is this so hard to fix ?

 

So here's my review on this pack, something which is probably in the top five addons I have been most looking forward to since TSW5's launch.

To get the biggest one out of the way first, this pack does not add any new timetable services. The wagons are used in timetable mode on WCML-S and ECML, and their services are substitutions in place of the FKA services that already existed. Was this disappointing? Maybe a little. However at the same time I recognise that there wasn't much else they could have added - both routes already had pretty well rounded freight timetables. The variety of seeing not 100% loaded FCA intermodals instead of the always fully loaded FKA ones being everywhere is a nice change regardless of the timetable. Also on this subject, occasionally FKA wagons can appear in the middle of a FCA formation, which is a nice touch as intermodal rakes do sometimes get mixed up like that in reality.

On a different note, there is something else which is a bit interesting, and it is perhaps debatable as to whether this is a good move or not. The new timetables on both are not specifically labelled as the FCA timetable, rather they are labelled as 'WCML: Cargo Line 2024' for example. This is because the changes to the timetables actually extend beyond the intermodals, and affect almost all freight services in both cases, as all freight wagons everywhere are swapped out for Cargo Line ones where possible. All HKAs and JNAs are swapped out for the CL2 HOAs, and all of the old style TEAs are swapped out for the modern VTG ones. Now in my opinion this is a good switch to make for the TEAs, but for the aggregate hoppers not so much. There should be a very big mix on these, as these are perhaps the most varied in terms of wagon type. Also, this basically removes the National Power HKAs entirely, since they only run on WCML at the moment and these are of course a standalone paid item. Probably not a good idea to be blocking those out. The FCAs and FKAs have a nice interchangeability and variety, why did everything else just get universally replaced?

Edit after having played a run on ECML - the JNAs and red HKAs do still appear in lineside decoration, and most intermodal decoration trains are still only FKAs, though some FCAs do appear. Ultimately though, it does still appear that the JNAs or HKAs on the playable services have been entirely replaced by HOAs, and that still leaves the National Power HKAs entirely gone from WCML.

I will of course share the notion that I do wish we had at least a new livery for the 66 in this pack. There are so many possible liveries within the confines of the licenses we know DTG have access to. Freightliner is an obvious one but I imagine that might be being saved for something big, fair play to be honest. But what about a different variation on DRS such as the Compass livery? Debranded EWS with the DB badges? I do recognise though that the DB 66 was only included out of necessity for how the game works and should really just be discarded from the picture entirely when considering what the pack has to offer, and at the very least it is nice to have the DB 66 with the lighting improvements that the prior packs gave to the EWS version, which made that in my opinion the best EWS 66 to use.

And one thing that came to mind is that I wouldn't have minded being able to use the 87 on the freight runs. It's not very realistic I know since they were all withdrawn a long time ago, but perhaps it would have been nice to have the option there as a substitute for a Class 90, just to be able to drive some electric freight, and the layer could obviously switched off if someone didn't want it. A consideration for a future patch, perhaps?

A final note about some smaller things, this makes one TEA service each on the two routes playable with the 47 or 52, same as on MML and GWE. Also for those like me who like to use Free Roam for railtours, on the Cargo Line timetable for ECML you can now spawn in WCML Over Shap content, and hence you can now run the 87 there, whereas on the original timetable it would give you the 'Formation does not fit' error screen.

Overall then, this pack is honestly okay. The places where it left a bit to be desired weren't at all unexpected. The biggest obstacle to me straight up calling it a great, must-have pack is what it does to the aggregate stock on the routes it affects - that really needs to be sorted out because it kills the variety the original timetables had and, in the case of WCML, actually completely overwrites a purpose built addon. Pending Skyhook adjusting that however, I would still say this pack is actually worth getting if intermodal variety is something you will find value in having.

 

Thanks for this review, really useful. This part in particular is interesting as I’ve been wanting to run the Class 87 on the ECML timetable and that with some of the other things you mention might make this worth getting. I wasn’t planning on getting it due to it mainly being the duplication of services and was waiting to see what happens with the MML update to decide if it’s worth a tenner, but now it might just be worth a go anyway. It was definitely in the discount only part of my brain until I read this.

 

It was a very nice surprise, I stumbled across it by accident as I had long ago written off the 87 on ECML as impossible, I was actually using Formation Designer to create a mixed up intermodal of all three wagon types that we now have, and that included the Shap FFA/FGAs. Turns out that funnily enough the WCML versions of the FKAs don't work on ECML, so you can't really use formation designer FKAs there now, haven't checked if this was always the case but it doesn't really matter as ECML has its own anyway. But then it suddenly hit me that I was spawning in Shap content without error, so I tried the 87 again and there it was. Still refuses to be placed on the original timetable, but perfectly fine on the Cargo Line one.

Also on the MML update subject, I believe all that's happening is they are making three previously AI only intermodals playable and swapping the FKAs out for the FCAs. Not the most exciting part of the addon but it will still be nice to at least have a couple runs I suppose.

 

I believe the number of potential paths left on MML is so small that a re-write of the timetable would be needed to incorporate any new layers [which is alot of work].

 

Thanks for the feedback. We are reading it all and discussing anything of concern.

To address two points raised:
The refactoring of the aggregate orientated rolling stock is based on realism. We analysed the origin and destination facilities for each authored service and assigned appropriate stock. The HKA hoppers as well as the National Power reskins are not appropriate for services on these routes during the period set. If any stock assignments are inappropriate, please do let us know.

Cargo Line Vol.3 Intermodal does not advertise the inclusion of content for Midland Main Line. The addition of content on MML is something we thought players would appreciated given we had an update coming to that route already in the works. There was certainly no time or budget in the project to redevelop the MML timetable.

 

Thanks for the answer Lucas, and I totally get the reason for the substitutions now that you mention it. It is true that in reality, the HKA hoppers are far less widespread than TSW would sometimes have you believe. My point in bringing up the National Power ones specifically (I never mentioned the DB ones) was less motivated by realism and more motivated by the fact that it leaves NP wagons entirely unused for the moment apart from AI layers on Cardiff City Network (which should probably also be your HOAs anyway), as your timetable is undoubtedly the superior version which people who own CL3 will use going forward.

Out of curiosity then, as this approach has been taken here, would you ever consider doing rolling stock updates on other routes? Or for that matter, is this actually the plan for future Cargo Line packs? Similar switches could be done with the TEAs and JNAs on Southeastern for example, which I recall was only able to be visited with HOAs in scenarios when CL2 released. This could actually be a very good and appreciated thing as switching out older rolling stock for more accurate stock that was released later is something DTG themselves have very rarely if ever done, unless as part of an overall timetable remaster.

 

Personally speaking I'm a big fan of new timetables for existing routes, they add new gameplay variation. We've seen it with the popular Community mod timetables and the recent OTS timetable too.

Adam. Can we please have a variation on livery if the 66 is being utilised multiple times? There's plenty DB candidates out there. 66 023 maybe in Coronation blue?

 

I think this is more of a core problem and not a cargo line issue, but driving part 2 of FCA service 4E58 on ECML, there are terrible blurred textures almost all the way. (PS5)

 

The wagons have no visible brake shoes- meaning that all of the distributor valves and brake cylinder pipes lead to nowhere, and all brake pipe cocks are cut-off along the train.

But other than that, quite an enjoyable pack and so far decently good value for money.

 

I appreciate the fact that even though I already own all the other Cargo Line DLC, I can buy the bundle, get Cargo Line 3 only, and still save money!

 

Played all scenarios on wcml and total blurriness the whole length of the jobs.

 

What has broken the Class 66 parking brake on PS5 using Cargo 3 timetable on WCML South?

 

The class 66 you get with this seems really under powered compared to others in the game.

 

4L52: the stopping 'rainbow' is way past a red signal.
caught me by surprise

 

What route is that one on

 

useful detail :WCML

 

Thanks

 

are you a DTG betatester/bug reporter?
bit more info: i run without the objective marker, that one will probably be right. it's only the rainbow that goes too far

 

No just a player like yourself its nice to know to look out for things like that.

 

That very specific point was the reason for my refund 2 min after purchais...,

 

Looking at the bogie, all brake equipment is missing. No calipers and pipes lead to nowhere. That might be good enough for tsc, but for sure not for a tsw5 dlc.

In my opinion its not worth 16 bucks. On a 70% discount well, since basic things are missing.

 

I thought those wagons had disc brakes. But then I found out there were no brakes. That's a big graphic error. But I can't take it back, I drove these wagons for too long yesterday. :-(

 

Does the g/p lever actually do something or is it just static?

I remember on the 114, which released with tsw5, the gpr selector was just all show and did not change the brake timings. At least it was fixed...

 

Silly question sorry but when you play the journey does spawn you in any off class 66s you own or just the new one that came with pack.

 

This bug is not caused by the Cargo Line Vol. 3 - Intermodal Pack but by the DB Class 66 from the HKA Bogie Hopper Wagon Pack for WCML. The parking brake indicator of this Class 66 has been broken since the release of the HKA Bogie Hopper Wagon Pack and since Skyhook has chosen exactly this Class 66, the bug now also appears in the Cargo Line Vol. 3 - Intermodal Pack.

Brief explanation for anyone else who has not yet seen it or does not own the HKA Bogie Hopper Wagon Pack,
the parking brake indicator shows both on and off simultaneously and one above the other:

 

Minor issue.
Service 6V49 - the HOA wagons do not have an EoT or branding on. The graffiti is there however.

Absolutely loving the pack thus far Adam. The trains feel so much more weighted and are a challenge to drive properly!

 

The graffiti version is different from the branded and unbranded versions so you might have had a rake of graffiti and unbranded wagons by chance, and just not had any branded showing up.

EDIT: Loaded 6V49 on the WCML Intermodal TT, and the EOT lamp was placed on the front of the train strangely enough.

 

Ah, cheers! Quite possibly. I did another service with the HOA and there was indeed a few branded wagons in the rake!
Ta.

 

I notice the buffer heights are very low against the class 66

 

Honestly, the entire plane of the trailer seems a bit too low? These screenshots seem to show the wheels almost grinding onto the containers? I am no expert but I don't think it should be so...

 

I don't blame you TBH, normally I'd be the first to refund something but given Skyhook's record for fixing issues, and the fact that I've been dying for more varied Intermodal consists for a while now has led me to keep the pack.

 

I was checking the wheelset ride height against the deck

 

Pft, the pack was one (1!) cargo wagon, barely different from what we have already, and they managed to LOVE that up. Including ride height and no brakes. For 12 eurobucks. This stuff comments itself.

 

Lowrider train, cool.

 

Since its a train simulation, missing brake equipment is a big "no" to me. Might be ok enough for TSC, but not for a TSW title which is priced 16 bucks.

 

Why did this dlc have too have a whole new timetable why couldn't they just add it to the exciting timetables. Thanks

 

So the method of braking on these wagons is to not have any brakes but use the bottom of the containers rubbing on the top of the wheels to slow the train down. Clever design or terrible modelling? I think we know which one it is. I love these feedback threads, they save me money. It was always going to be a hard sell with the lack of new gameplay so I’m grateful to the players who are showing me that the wagon itself is also terrible. Yeah but no.

 

After seeing others comments, I'm starting to think that £10 wasn't really worth it for this DLC, especially with the newly flagged issues of the ride height, and now I've noticed that cargo line V2 has the exact same issue with the brake pipe cocks being shut along the entire train. (although at least that wagon has modelled brake rigging)

 

CL 4E20 - East Coast Mainline
13:15 departure

seems to be a class 66 in some trouble!

 

One thing from this pack that I would wish to become standard in DTGs timetables is having the wagon used be part of the service name. Makes searching for services that much easier.

One extreme example is the RHTT on ECML, in the original timetable RHTT is mentioned only in the detailed description, so finding the service is a pain, because it is undisguisable from the other class 66 services...

 

the class 66 that was included with the pack, i don't think it supossed to do that

 

Booted up my PS4 to do some comparisons between some of the routes on my 8th gen and my PS5 version and noticed that the intermodal timetable unlocked the full WCML on 8th gen.

It has the '72ts, 377/2, 378, 710, 350 and 390 as well as the updated FCA freight - not sure if this is intended or not but if you are on a PS4 there's another reason to pick up the Cargo Line Intermodal pack.

The '72ts services are playable
The 377/2 services are playable
The 710 services crash into Eutson but are fine to Watford
The 350 services crash into Eutson but are fine to Milton Keynes
The 390 services crash into Eutson and will crash into Milton Keynes if the service approaches on non permissive signals
The Class 66 services are playable with a fair bit of stutter

To be honest if I was still an 8th gen player I'd jump on this for the WCML timetable unlocks alone but playing on my 9th gen it's only benefit (imho) is the DB Class 66 with the LED cluster - meaning there is now a variant of the EWS/DB 66 with the older cluster and the LED cluster - now Cargo Line 4 needs to use the weathered EWS 66 with a LED cluster and we have a complete set

 

When you take a close look at this dlc you can how bably made it is.

 

Why am I limit to 60mph with 25 wagons weighing 1.387 t and length 525 yards i thought that could 75mph. Thanks

 

If it was a 6xxx headcode then I believe that limits you to 60mph - was it an HOA rake by chance?