Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by ralphy_porter2000, Feb 23, 2021.
tbh you're lucky to get more than 2 platforms available at termini on scenario planner
It is a recurring pattern, especially with recent releases I feel. I wonder if workpower has long been drafted away from these dlc in order to get rush hour in the best possible release state, overshadowing these recent releases, at least quality wise.
We will know if that is the case when RH gets released, but it does kinda feels like it.
regarding the red trains, that is absolutely true ingame. There have been different coloring through the times, basically just as with "br blue" and "br green" eras. For example, ther ewas an era where the trains were mostly dark green, and a more recent one was beige coloring with dark red or dark blue accents.
Nowadays, especially after the regionalization took force around 1996, calls for tenders are used to allocate different sections/connections to highest bidders, and Deutsche Bahn themselves can take part (as previously DB and the railroads were operated by the state of Germany alone). This has lead to a broad variety on our rails, which just does not get represented ingame because of the different licenses.
I don't want to clutter this thread with pictures, but if you are interested, google some pictures of Abellio in Germany. They uses silver-red, green-white, yellow-white and grey-orange liveries throughout Germany and are not a rare sight. Then there is National Express with the white and blue Talent 2 or the dark blue DB BR 110.Tehre is also Vlexx with a nice blue-white pattern.
There is also Flixtrain in bright green coloring, and Eurobahn with a yellow-white coloring, turquoise and dark-blue green coloring.
Even Deutsche Bahn is changing some liveries (though it might be a regional thing rather) as recently the DB BR 422 that we have in the game on RRO and HRR is painted green and white instead of red and white.
And not to forget, the red trains come with several advertisement paintings on the sides alot of the time, it is not an unusal sight. This also holds true for the EMUs, for example the HMA BR 423 had a livery i nbright blue with white checkers, resembling the bavarian emblem. These are done all the tame around Germany.
Sorry for the long slightly off topic text, but I wanted to shed a bit of light on the overall train coloring in Germany. Of course the standard DB coloring is still "Verkehrsrot", but when you are standing at a station there is still an increasingly amount of colourful trains going around
I’m not expecting Cathcart to look any better then SEHS, with its obvious scenery flaws.
I’m already expecting the area immediately outside of Glasgow Central to be void of anything. Probably a few buildings here and there before you can see the end of the map and plain green terrain. As you go over the River Clyde, I’m expecting minimal adjacent scenery with the world ending ‘down the stream’.
I don’t mean to sound negative but DTG just don’t give me much confidence at all, given their complete incompetence to maintain a consistent standard of route building. It’s so up and down, you just don’t know what to expect.
This is most definitely a "wait and see". If it turns out decent and eventually comes on sale, I may pick it up.
I will be awaiting the first look at the route and if it is great, I might pick it up. I like commuter services alot. But this is where the whole thing feels off again, if there was a second train it would offer just that variety that I would seek within such a pack. Like with HRR which is a commuter heavy route, with two commuter trains.
Then again I am a massive ECW fan and would certainly favor the 313 here, but getting both dlc feels weird. So Iwill msot likely decide on one at release and get the other on a discount.
Given how great the last loco dlc were, 313 might have the edge.
Of course they are new trains because they haven't been released yet but this is still dtg technically recycling two trains. Like you said a 313 and a 314 are pretty much the same but in a different livery. There were some complaints about the rush hour releases because of effectively recycled locos and I think based of what was said in the rush hour stream as well is that players want to see variety especially if more than one train runs on that particular route in reality. Sure a class 377 and 387 are different technically trains for example, but they are effectively similar trains but one happens to take power from the third rail and overhead wires. You won't even be able to use the pantograph on a 387 in the BML so your effectively getting a similar gameplay experience. Some players don't always want to see the same or similar type of train on a new route. I think this route would have had a bit more value if it came with another train. New trains add more value
It really, really isn’t.
This attitude of “DTG recycling trains” is going to catch us out sometime.
So because we’ll got a 313/314 in the game, we can’t have a route that features a 315, because it’s DTG recycling rolling stock?
If we ever got a Class 800/801 Azuma on eg: London Kings Cross-Peterborough, then we can’t have a GWR 800 on a route because we’ve had an 800 already.
This attitude is just boring and repetitive now and been done to death.
And in terms of a Class 313 running on 3rd Rail in Sussex, and a Class 314 on OHL in Scotland, I couldn’t think of anything more poles apart to be honest.
The issue isn’t reusing trains, because like you say, there are many situations where that is warranted.
What is the issue is how close together the releases of said trains are, I can see why people would get fed up of having new content release with the same content inside it.
There is nothing wrong with reusing trains if it runs there in real life. You have people asking for gwr class 800s and LNER class 800s. One main problem I see is how close the release is to these similar types of dlcs. The Class 313 and Cathcart for example will release relatively close to one another. One route has third rail, the other has overhead wires but your effectively gonna get a similar gameplay experience which gets repetitive over time since they are effectively the same train. The 377 and 387 are different technically but will offer a similar gameplay experience because they are electrostars. Also bml doesn't have overhead wires so you won't be able to use the pantograph for the 387 and I don't think I need to explain the recycling issue with BRD. The content would be "new" in a certain way, but if it's using the same train over and over, it's gonna get some annoyed hence why some would like to see variety so it doesn't feel like driving the same train over and over. It gets repetitive over time with similar experiences.
When people buy this game and it's dlc's the number one thing is the trains,it not rocks,trees,mountains,buildings,roads,traffic,cloudy skies rain snow fog etc.If dtg wants to make more money they need to focus on what this games primary premise is new exciting train to drive and wagons and passenger cars to pull push shunt etc.Maybe because they have to expend so effort on all this 2nd stuff they don't have time to make more new trains and are forced to recycle often just to keep on schedule. 1.(New trains=More $$$).2(Nothing wrong with other efforts as long as number 1 not negatively effectived by it)
Note:Here a obvious clue that you have a problem,when the most frequent thing said here by more then a few is"I'll wait for a sale"or something similar this is a clear sign you have a problem somewhere.
3 Reasons for this...
1.Not everyone may have the money to buy every dlc.
2.Not everyone may want every dlc.
3.Not everyone may see that the newest dlc is worth $$$ amount.
The 1st too are understandable but if the 3rd reason is mentioned to offen it looks bad.
Note:But if where going to complain about random problems how long is rivet games going to drag out the problem of fixing the livery editor issue with IOW.
Cathcart Circle is the sort of route you'll drive if you've got half an hour to spare. It's also the sort of route where you can drive to the end and back in one go without wanting a break. Sure Glasgow Central will feel deserted but let's be realistic, we're not going to see half a dozen train types modeled for one route just for a mile stretch of AI. Plus more services would likely be added if we see more Scottish content in the future, which I believe is highly likely.
Also it seems a bit odd that Cathcart Circle is due out soon if SEHS was only a few months ago and BML is due in another few months. Either DTG have upped their game and are now developing routes twice as fast or have taken on board another route development team and a short easy route like Cathcart Circle was their first project. I also vaguely remember DTG hiring environment artists (route builders) not too long ago also.
Then people will probably complain that they're recycled since they sound similar and have a similar cab to the Class 395.
Don't forget the Class 314 has a completely different interior and different cab features to the Southern Class 313.
The 313 and 314 are different in the same ways that the 377&375 are different, new livery, different interior and cab etc.
But the problem isn’t with how different they are IRL, it’s how different they are in game, the 375 inherited all the same issues as the 377, bad PIS, cab full of empty screens, and wrong and buggy sounds.
I really don’t mind DTG putting trains of the same family, which provide a similar experience, as long as they’re A) spaced out enough so that it’s doesn’t just feel like a CTRL+V job, and B) have issues corrected from the previous in game model.
The 377 & 375 were about one year apart, and yet all of the issues on the 377 were on the 375, so when DTG say they never reuse a train, how truthful is that really?
I really hope the 387 is a ground up build, reusing the body shell, sure but sounds, PIS etc need to be redone.
The same is sure to happen with the 313/314, if one has an issue then the other will probably share it.
In the end most of what you pay for is a new livery, and if these trains were separate loco DLC’s I can’t imagine they’d sell too well at all.
Despite what people say, and the obvious similarities between them, the classes 313 and 314 are different trains, and they both run the services on the routes they are made for, so you can’t really complain too much. Having the 314 is highly authentic, as it is the main train used for services on the Cathcart Circle, and that is also a full route, so it ticks two of the boxes that you always bang on about wanting to see ticked. The 313 is the correct train for the services in ECW, highly authentic box ticked. Both of these DLC are exactly what you have been asking DTG to provide in all the time you have been on the forum. Now you say you would rather have a less authentic train because it’s different. Make your mind up.
New trains are great to get but some people do want to see the same train on many routes. Everyone is begging for the BR 101 to be everywhere. If that wasn’t a loco DLC and it a featured loco in a route and then got reused in nearly every route afterwards, some people would complain and some people would be very happy about it, others would be begging for layers for it to be added to older routes as well as newer ones. People also get very upset when their favourite loco doesn’t substitute into other services on other routes. There’s as much to gain from driving the same or similar trains on many routes as there is from getting as many different trains as possible.
What people really want is every suitable train on every route it can be all at the same time. That can’t technically be done even if the models were all present in the game. TSW has compromises in it and reusing the trains is one of them. We still do have a very large selection of trains to run in the game and slight variations of trains appearing in new routes is going to happen more and more.
I can't quite see what the issue is here regarding the trains. Sure they are similar but they are running on two different routes, one is using third rail, one is running via OHLE and a pantograph.
They run at pretty much opposite ends of the country.
The main issue with Cathcart Circle for me will be how long it is, will it include the branches? I don't mind having a similar unit in it to the class 313. The class 313 will certainly make the beautiful but boring ECW more interesting.
I would imagine there will be extra DLC for Cathcart Circle at some point.
I imagine what they did regarding the 375 was take the 377 from ECW, and modify the model to make it a 375, but keep the sounds and implementation (I wonder if the Javelin and LGV stuff sucked up all the dev time?). Judging by what Matt said about the 387 they may be modelling it from the ground up, or at least heavily modified from the 377.
Also i don't know where they've said they never reuse a train - what I've always heard is "it's never just a reskin"
They’ll need to change at least the door closing/open alarm sound as they differ from the earlier 377s.
I really hope they fix some of the old 377 sound issues - such as no deceleration sounds for AI trains. Another issue is the lack of cab audio occlusion - the cab hasn’t been separated from the interior so you’ll get excessively loud interior sounds, such as the doors opening and closing and loud alarm sounds, because the game thinks you are sitting in the interior, as it hasn’t been set up to be separate from the cab.
Now is the time for DTG to show us they actually care about the sounds, and not just recycle mediocre sounds and a X year old sound set up from when the ECW 377 was built.
SEHS definitely had issues somewhere, considering it was delayed a couple of times, and that the 395 still needed work 2 weeks before release, and further work after release.
But the 375 was just disappointing, and DTG need to make sure that the 387 gets improvements over its predecessors, the 377 with the BML DLC will likely be a straight port of the original from ECW, which will make it almost 2 years from its original release, being resold whilst still being presumably riddled with issues.
As for what DTG said, I just paraphrased what they’ve said over the last few months, but they really do need to put more work into whatever they want to call their replugged assets.
Who said I wanted a less authentic train? Never said that. As for the DB BR 101, it could be added in theroy to some of the other german routes in the game as it runs on those routes in reality
I suspect the 375 had some things recycled to save dev time despite sehs being delayed which is quite odd.
To be honest the 375 felt a bit of a reskin to the 377. DTG say it's never just a reskin but the 375 inherited alot of the same issues from the 377 and was plopped into sehs.
Yes, it's a regional thing. Precisely because of the advent of various operating companies securing the contracts for S-bahn services, and the resultant variety of liveries, the Verkehrsverein Rhein-Ruhr decreed that all S-bahn trains in their region, regardless of operator, would wear the same green-and-white livery.
That’s because the 375 was a COMPLETE copy and paste when it came to the actual sound and physic set up of the ECW 377, despite what DTG says. The only thing they changed was a few interior furniture placements.
So much for "it's never just a reskin"
Saw this in the recent Hamburg - Lubeck release stream, only appeared for 1 frame at 48:35 (use "," & "." to skip 1 frame at a time). It shows "Cathcart Circle Line Glasgow - " so maybe branch lines? What are everyone's thoughts.
Cane Creek is there too hmmm both must be further along then thought.
Good Catch, interesting why it has a hyphen after Glasgow, presumably it wouldn’t be Glasgow - Glasgow, but then it may list Glasgow - Cathcart, or any of the other branches if they’re included.
(I say if but surely even DTG wouldn’t release a DLC with 1 piece of rolling stock and a track mileage of 5 miles).
Interesting also that it's below Hanburg. That list is supposed to be in original release order (GWE being bottom as it was the first DLC) - perhaps Cane Creek's took longer to make than they expected?
Isn't there 21 station on this route?I doubt it only 5 miles long.
If it was Glasgow - Glasgow the it would be "Glasgow Cathcart Circle: Glasgow - Glasgow" 3:2 ratio of Glasgow to other words is a bit too much.
Its 21 stations including the two branch lines, its only 11 on the main circle which is the 5 miles, this is the reason people are wondering about the branch lines, hope this helps.
It might just be half of the loop, so only 2.5 miles. It would still count as the Cathcart Circle Line. The trains could just go back and forth, it’ll be great...
Or it could be the whole line, inclusive of all the constituent parts of it, which includes the branches. The branches are part of the line, after all.
5 mile route, blimey I thought the existing Brighton line was a short sham. I remember the first time I ran freight there , well for about 5.7 miles in open country.
Or Glasgow - Neilston & Newton.
Fingers Crossed anyway!
Mr Wolf already answered this but I’ll back it up, the actual Glasgow - Cathcart section is only 11 stops.
If the line was built today it would probably be ran by light rail such as trams, even with the additional branches it’s not very long at all.
Oooo maybe like an RRO where the trains go as far as Wuppertal Oberbarman and back to Wuppertal.
It's not the length... I probably shouldn't make that joke on here, should I?
Does this sound like a $30 route?It sound barely longer then iow,heck even $25 is pushing it for value at this point.After HHL we don't need another issue to deal with again.
BTW the tsw2 wiki page now have the achievement list up and it's almost a all cathcart list.
Yeah well I wouldn’t bet much on the way DTG use it either...
Even at with the extra branches this should come at the lower route price (£19.99 or equivalent), especially with only 1 unit included.
No Class 380 and 385 are disappointed and not worth 30€ for this short route
Has the pricing been revealed?
The strange thing is if this route has reach the(testing faze,let's just pretend they will test it)then the routes length should be know by now so why hasn't it been posted anywhere yet.
We likely will see an article within the next couple of weeks, I do agree it is strange that we haven't seen anything on the route yet, if it is already in testing then it will be completed, barring adjustments following testing.
Usually prices for routes (with the exception of IOW are $29.99 or 24 pound 99
It's dtg. They won't lower the price.
They’ve done it with Iow And west summerset, we can only wait and see.
Even with the branchlines we’ve got a short route, add in the fact that we’re only getting the 314 and I think there’s a good chance we’ll see the lower price here.
It’s quite odd how cane creek has had like 10 screenshots revealed but it’s been in development for less time than Cathcart circle and we still haven’t got anything for that yet
I don't know how accurate these are but here are the achievements for Cathcart on the wiki, only the 314 by the looks of it but only one loco has achievements of the Hamburg wiki, so I dunno? 10 achievements, the same as Hamburg - Lubeck so don't expect anymore. Links below \/
CCL: 314 Master - Complete all training modules on Cathcart Circle Line
CCL: Getting Dizzy - Complete all scenarios on Cathcart Circle Line
CCL: Replanted - Complete all route tasks on Cathcart Circle Line
CCL: Circle Clyde - Complete 1 service on Cathcart Circle Line
CCL: Cruising The Clyde - Complete 50 services on Cathcart Circle Line
CCL: Right Round - Complete Cathcart Circle Line scenario 'Around and Around'
CCL: Away Day - Complete Cathcart Circle Line scenario 'Extra Time'
CCL: Honorary Glaswegian - Reach route level 20 on Cathcart Circle Line
CL314: 500 More - Operate the Class 314 for 500 miles
CL314: To the Max - Reach a speed of 70mph in the Class 314
Hamburg -Lubeck: https://train-sim-world.fandom.com/wiki/Hauptstrecke_Hamburg_–_Lübeck
Cane Creek was on the very first roadmap: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/tsw2-roadmap-18-august and entered production at the end of September: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/tsw2-roadmap-29-september
Cathcart didn't appear until January.
Not so. Cane Creek has been on the Roadmap from the very beginning.
Found the achievements on SteamDB, same as the wiki.
Separate names with a comma.