Class 158

When are we going to get videos of sound and physics for this up and coming Class 158?

As a community we were totally shafted with the 150/2 sounds and physics, ( we’ll anyone who actually knows what a 150 sounds and drives like ) and I think it is well within our rights to get to see a FULL demonstration of the sound features and level track acceleration and braking well in advance of release so 1) we know what the quality is before we purchase it and 2l so we can send a list of all the inaccuracies, modifications and changes that need to happen to get it to a release that is of acceptable realism?

More importantly, when we send accurately researched feedback they must be acted upon BEFORE release and not 12 months later.

 

Your absolutely spot on I 110% know what you mean as I’ve been on both regularly all classes of sprinters

 

We’ll get videos when it’s ready. The same as DTG do with every route they release.

 

The phrase 150/2 and piss poor very apt abd go well together

 

Come on, this route is probably already finalized- what we see is what we'll get as usual

 

If that’s the case… they’ll lose shed loads of sales then. What’s that phrase….once bitten, twice shy. The community may have been shafted once, but we’re not going to put up with that shambles a second time round.

 

Very much agree. I don't know the 150/2s very well but I do know that they don't sound like the tumble drier in the kitchen on a continuous loop!

 

haha yes exactly. You only have to listen to a ten second clip on YouTube of one pulling out of a station to realise that the shambles of a disaster that rivet created isn’t even close

 

Your spot on matt what I can tell you from pov as a sprinter fan and expert the 150/2 has the same engine as the class 156 sprinter and should rev loud in notch 7 or off-notch 7 the problem is rivet had the source material from Armstrong powerhouse but totally screwed up the implementation if you want to hear what it should sound like Armstrong powerhouse got awesome YouTube channel with the accurate sounds for each sprinter including both the Cummins and Perkins class of 158 which is the bench mark I’m using for deciding if midland mainline will be worth purchasing or not I hope my points help clarify things for you

 

Well I don’t think we should condemn Skyhook ahead of time, but I will certainly be watching and listening to reviews and YT clips before buying, or sharpening the guillotine blade.

 

A good point but what you have to realise is that ultimately irrespective of who dev is it ultimately stops with DTG to ensure quality control is up to scratch believe me I so want this to be fantastic not least because my hometown finally features in a route but also my deep love of 158 and I’m hoping fingers crossed that we have finally turned corner in positive way in respect of Midland mainline and future dlcs

 

Taking your point the perfect example of what it should be is on YouTube not only actual trains but the awesome Armstrong powerhouse audio for all sprinters including the 150 sprinters but what it boils down to is incompetent implementation as it’s no secret rivet had the source audio from Armstrong powerhouse so shows what a complete balls up was made of setting it up in game

 

Having commuted on the things, that's a good term, possibly with a brick in the drum...

 

Keep in mind its 2 different dev teams so you may or may not get one

 

Very much, as I use the 156s now and then but as I've never really taken an interest in DMUs never realised they had the same engines as the 150/2s.

 

Hoping this comes out a week on Thursday before the Easter break; really looking forward to the new HST and 158.

Actually really like the 150 since the update last year; feels like the rev up implementation is much better than at launch, but hoping they sort it properly for this route.. sound is going to be interesting as the mixing (and source audio) for EDI-GLA was not well done, but hoping this is awesome!

train models look good from what’s been shown, though

 

it is better than it was but it’s still unbelievably bad and lacking basic and fundamental features / physics setup.

There is absolutely no excuse for the horrendous quality. THEY SIMPLY DON’T CARE’. If they did, even if they were rubbish with TSW physics and sound implementation they would actually research more and get in the experts that can actually do the job properly not come up with a sprinter that sounds like a cement mixer, and drives like a tug boat. No excuse what so ever, they simply don’t give a damn. That has been proven in the last 12 months. Yes they’ve made tweaks but certainly haven’t done what is needed.

 

This is great to hear Matt! Can you confirm if the same is true for the VP185 HST?

 

I do agree with not proclaiming a DLC to be DOA before we’ve seen anything, but there are important factors to consider.

Firstly, Skyhook haven’t had the greatest record with TSW releases, they’re usually buggy & then just don’t get fixed, this is followed by deafening silence from Skyhook. Dare I bring up the 187? The DLC no one from Skyhook bothered to show up to the release/preview for? The DLC that was not only released in such a poor state, but then after it was patched many months mater, they actually managed to make the sounds worse?

Secondly, trains in TSW either sound very good, or just sound like a hoover because the lack of realistic sounds seems to always be covered up by cooling fans or a HVAC system.

Third, the only other sprinter we have in game isn’t exactly a shining example of how to make a sprinter.

You said it yourself, the 158 has a lot of anticipation ahead of it, whoever is working on it, be it yourself (DTG), Skyhook or AP, are going to touch nerves with this one.

I also find it bad taste for you to call us out on negativity when the last couple of months have been release after release with bugs and disappointments. What do you expect?

 

I agree. You can't keep on releasing rushed or buggy content and expect people to keep the same level of positivity.

 

DB BR 187

This is reassuring. Thanks. Looking forward to the preview streams.

 

I have given Matt’s post a helpful upvote and it goes some way to addressing concerns. However that said, some of the recent DTG releases have not exactly been first class and they still allow Rivet to make money on the flawed WCL, 150/2 and 1938 stock. We are no doubt being asked to pay £30 for what amounts to another short route and that means what we get needs to be to a top quality standard.

As I said, the guillotine is being sharpened in readiness, but hopefully the carts can just pass on by.

 

Can you seriously blame us for being sceptical about this 2nd Gen DMU after we’ve been scarred by past events??? The 150/2 is in a different league to ‘realistic’ it isn’t even worthy of a TSW status. It has gone from way way too quick to 20 seconds too slow to get to 45mph (amongst the other very long list of errors ) …. I mean how do they even get these fixes so badly wrong? That in itself takes talent, but not the talent we want here. How was it released in the first place let alone still allowed to be sold at the current shambolic state.

If you paid £25 for an exact scale model replica of the Titanic, and it arrived looking like a tractor, wouldn’t you say something ? More importantly, wouldn’t you keep on about it until something was done about it?

It is not negativity, it is pure worry, based on past events that another sprinter is going to be ruined, simple as that. We are all stating that the quality has to be better. If it is fantastic, brilliant, We’ll write many wonderful reviews and shout about it from the rooftops, but if it isn’t - you will hear about it far and wide. You constantly ask for feedback, but very little of my feedback has ever been taken on board. The only exception was the lovely pres crew member Adam who reached out to me regarding the Class 166 physics, (even that took a year of me banging on about it to be noticed though) to which I sent real life data recordings and the unit was modified and now drives beautifully. That’s all we want - some interaction and knowledge that physics and sound issues will be fixed when reported. Personally I don’t care if I hit a buggy red signal in a scenario from time to time. But I DO care that a train actually drives and sounds very close to realistic. If you can’t achieve that, don’t advertise it as ‘true to life’ ( but you can and very often do )

Now, all that aside, there have been some incredible DTG product releases, and I do mean absolutely stunning quality of products over the past year or so. The Class 31, 33, 45, HST, 166, 66, 323, 465, 395, 387, are all just fantastic. Not perfect but generally very high quality indeed. Third party releases however, not so! Please don’t misunderstand my post as just being 100% negative. But unfortunately there have been releases by a certain developer or two that has been way under par, particularly in the ‘recycled’ sounds department by the current developer of the 158 surely you can’t blame us for being just a bit worried?

 

The 150/2 is from Rivet and the 158 will be from skyhook two different devs teams and skyhook has worked along DTG on multiple releases and Loco's here is some info https://skyhookgames.com/case-study/dovetail-games/

 

Well there has been considerable and what appears to be justified criticism of Skyhook's previous efforts on traction - the DB187 and the locos on Cane Creek.

 

Yeah well the 187 was suppose to have real 187 sounds but it didn't happen due to covid
And Cane creek idk what happened there

 

Yes I am very well aware of the difference in developer, I am just saying we do not want a repeat performance

 

Perhaps don't buy in a rush and instead wait and watch/listen on YouTube?

 

I think this is pretty much what many of us intend to do. Of course, the counterpoint is that someone needs to be an early adopter to get the reviews out there and anyone who had a free or preview copy might not be an entirely reliable source, either. Of course the other possibility is to buy, try and dissatisfied refund, but not an action I’m so much in favour of these days as it’s easy to fall foul of Steam and anyway the console versions don’t have that option.

 

Why do you refuse to have them fix the 150 then?
is it so you can charge us another £5 for a reskin and patch pack.
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That's up to rivet, not Matt. There's no need to treat Matt that way.

 

Agreed. We are all passionate on these issues but being rude to the Executive Producer is not the way to get things done.

 

Rivet make the DLC, DTG publish it, Matt is the Executive Producer.

Saying that it isn’t DTG’s responsibility is not correct, it’s wholly their responsibility to ensure the content being produced meets the DTG standard. If DTG’s standards are being met by Rivet then fair enough, but either way it is DTG’s issue as much as Rivets If the community calls that standard into question.

 

I have a lot of issues with Rivet and the 150 lack of quality BUT there’s no need for personal insults or attacks. I try to remain respectful to individuals even if I am ripping into the company as a whole. Matt - please understand my comments are aimed in this way (company wide criticism) and not personal in any way. Yes I have big issues with quality in some areas of TSW, but I always try to avoid insulting one individual per se. That’s not professional or productive.

 

I guess all I am asking for is for companies who develop these addons to listen to feedback and sort things out SWIFTLY, and be prepared to fix and improve to a great standard. I can ask a modder to change something and it’s done the next day ! Why doesn’t this happen with official updates ? ( I understand it has to go through QA and release checks but it shouldn’t take a year )

 

Have a bit of respect. You wouldn't go into any shop, station, restaurant etc and insult someone in person so why do it so pathetically online. Typical keyboard warrior.

Sadly it's "enthusiasts" like you that make this forum quite a toxic place for many members who post less often.
I enjoy the game. Yes it has its issues and some problems, but 95% of the game is great. When I find something wrong, or have an idea I open a thread here, or a ticket.
If I was a developer and I read this thread I'd think there was no chance I could ever satisfy this community. Hopefully the devs know the majority of forum members and game users in general love the game. I realise people get very angry when they love something so much but try to censor yourself a bit. Even the regular more negative members aren't rude and usually constructive in their feedback.

The whole way this thread has gone is shameful. Give creative advice and feedback. Not simple insults and bashing.

 

I quite agree. Criticism of the game or developer yes but not personal attacks. No need for that

 

Passionate?
Hard-working?
Committed?

Matt is a good lad and, if you look, spent time on his Saturday evening at 11 O'Clock to type out that reply so don't even question the words above.

 

Good to know that the 158s being done well and does make me more confident about this release.

I know this thread is on the 158 and I think it was mentioned but is a similar thing going on with the VP 185 HST as for me the sounds on that are just as important as the 158.

 

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Watch your language pafc. DTG JD

 

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Don't worry, he's defo gonna get banned.

 

I think DTG need to ban this unpleasant person, you’ve crossed a line there, homophobic piece of trash, jog on yourself and I hope you get banned, we don’t need your kind here so get lost, you lead a sad pathetic life and have the grace and the decorum of a reversing dump truck, there’s one word for people like you…… scumbag

 

Some people shouldn't be allowed near a keyboard!