Xbox Class 377 Braking Performance

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by FD1003, Nov 30, 2020.

?
  1. Yes, realism first

    37 vote(s)
    94.9%
  2. No, I want an easier trains to drive and just have some fun

    2 vote(s)
    5.1%
  3. No, I think it's not realistic - explain below

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Hello, I thought I would bring this up since the 377 is also going to be featured on Southeastern High Speed (SE HS), and I just wanted to make sure the 377's physics were at least brough back to the TSW2020's Class 377 level.

    The problem is that in TSW2 the 377 brakes far too well compared to TSW2020 and according to a real driver:
    "Braking
    This is the area that I feel needs the most work. I can only wish that the Electrostars were as effective when braking as your model is! The 1st notch of braking provides definitive braking but it's effect is much more gradual than in the simulation. Notch 2 is closer to reality but still too effective. Notch 3 in the sim provides an huge amount of braking force, far greater than that provided by the train in an emegency application. I'm not sure any train can deccelerate at this level. So here are the decimal values, where I am proposing a decimal to represent what I feel the braking force should be, against what it currently is in the sim (represented as 1.0):-

    B 1 (0.65)
    B 2 (0.8)
    B 3 (0.7)"


    I recorded braking from 70 to 0 at B3 and B2 and from 40 to 0 at B1 in both TSW2020 and TSW2 and the difference is quite big, I'll share the raw videos I shall now edit them and then send DTG a ticket (and edit this post as well), as usual this forum post is to make sure this issue is not related to my hardware/software problems and if it might be platform specific, also I'm quite interested to see if you think this is a problem that needs fixing or would you just prefer a train that is easier to drive?

    Personally, ECW was my most played route in TSW2020 and I was never able to adapt to the new braking distances, also knowing it's not realistic doesn't help.

    I'd just like to ask if you noticed the performance differece between TSW2020 and TSW2 and confirm that the 377 brakes much better in the newer game, no need to repeat the tests or anything like that.

    Thank you very much for your help and have a great day!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  2. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    More """"""refined"""""" video

     
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  3. Fitz

    Fitz Well-Known Member

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    I'm the same, I had driving the 377 on 2020 almost nailed with the braking. TSW2 is very different. I find myself driving it much more aggressively because I can. Like above I found the brake points I learned in 2020 were now far too early for 2.

    I want realism wherever I can can get it.
     
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  4. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    Definitely agree with this. In TSW2, the braking is just unrealistically effective, although I'm no expert on these units, the braking in TSW2020 did seem to be somewhere near what it should be. As has been said, I do find it frustrating as all my braking points have now changed, some by quite a significant distance.
     
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  5. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone else also find the HST braking too aggressive too ?
     
  6. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I'm not familiar with the GWR DLC
     
  7. elvescast

    elvescast Active Member

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    Why are you using brake level 2 and 3? In service you dont want to be using more than level 1, no wonder you think the brakes are strong.

    I think after reading this I understand why I seem to be at odds with everyone else because on the 377 I only use brake 2or 3 if I've made a mistake.

    In real life although my local trains are not 377 drivers tend to brake at a slower rate for longer than hammering upto a speed change or stations then jamming the brakes on hard.

    I would like to thank you for clarifying why DG has put the 377 brakes on the roadmap for me though.
     
  8. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    "Stopping at Stations in the BR Class 377/4

    1. On approach to the station, you should always manage your speed appropriately. The timing of the brake applications will need to be timed properly to ensure a smooth and stable stop. As such, you will need to think and act well ahead. Begin approximately 1 mile from the station by moving the Combined Throttle & Brake to Step 2. Note this ‘braking point’ distance is influenced by numerous factors, such as the current speed of the train, the weight of the consist, the current grade and the conditions of the rails – it will be necessary for you to adjust your braking point accordingly.

    2. The aim is to apply sufficient brake pressure once and only adjust it once you reach the start of the platform. As a general rule, you should always aim to be at no more than 25 mph (40 km/h) depending on the platform length. For short platforms, you
    should aim to be at no more than 15 mph (24 km/h) when you reach the start of the platform. Avoid fanning (moving the handle back and forth) the Combined Throttle & Brake handle.

    3. As your speed reduces below 7 mph, move the Combined Throttle & Brake to Step 1 to reduce the brake pressure in preparation for the stop. This will prevent the wheels locking up and causing the train to judder.

    4. Once the train has reached a full stop, move the Combined Throttle & Brake to the
    Step 3 position to secure the train"

    Source: East Coastway manual

    Also, it's not about the B1 vs B2 vs B3.

    B1 is stronger in TSW2 than TSW1, so is B2 and B3, so if you use B1 on TSW1 it will brake with less effectivenes, above you will find a video which clearly shows the difference.

    With all due respect, I regard the route manual to be a better source than riding the train as passenger.

    Anyway I will add another option to the poll: "No I think it's not realistic" so you can vote against this change.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  9. elvescast

    elvescast Active Member

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    I was just explaining my experience and I understand that there is different ways of driving and different styles I was just surprised, I always brake gently for every unit/loco and I manage the timetable when doing scenarios or timetable mode.

    As for the different brake settings I did watch the video however I can only state my own experience where as my brake points remain consistent over both games. Speed however is probably the factor here as I generally am ag lower speeds to start.
     
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  10. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, sorry I misundertood your first post so I apologize if I got a bit defensive for nothing. Anyway I get it, but if you can manage to follow the timetable only using step 1 it's a clear indicator the brakes are way too strong.
     
  11. elvescast

    elvescast Active Member

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    You might have a point there,

    I have been doing some driving in the 377 to see if I'm correct as I have been driving the 101 recently so needed a refresher.

    Can I point out something that will have an effect is the cohesion physics on tsw2 over 2020, they will play a part.

    I've only done a few runs so far in 377 to refresh my memory, however you make a very valid point if I only need brake step 1 then maybe something needs looking at
     
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  12. traingeek241

    traingeek241 Member

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    I definitely feel that the brakes on this unit are far too sensitive! I mainly use notce one anyway for station stops and even red signal.
     
  13. CrazyDash

    CrazyDash Well-Known Member

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    luckily this is on the roadmap so this should get fixed soon
     
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  14. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like this problem will get fixed very soon, I am really happy about it! Thanks DTG for listening to the community and thanks everyone who took part in the poll and contributed in this thread :D
     

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