Class 465 Discussion

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by helderbrincolas, Jan 27, 2021.

  1. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion it doesn't make any sense releasing Class 465 right after the release of SEHS. 14€ for a train that probably will only replace Class 375 services is a bad deal and the section that is way to short! DTG you should have done the Class 466 and add the Sheerness Branch, that would have been some great news and more Gameplay to SEHS and i think the community would appreciate that instead of a basic 465 full price release...
    Or make a pack of Class 465 and 466, because the 466 is simply the 2 car version.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Basing a rant post on something we know little about is fairly pointless. I will reserve judgement until I have seen the product and what they intend to do with it

    Also, the Sheerness branch adds 42 shuttle services, all calling in the same 4 stop pattern. There are no freight services on the line, 1 engineers diagram per day and one ECS movement, so actually adds very little to the overall, even if it would be "nice to have"
     
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  3. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    We will have to wait and see, I would love if the Sheerness Branch was included, maybe they built it and need the 465 to access it?

    Anyway it makes no sense to start talking about the 465 when we don't have any info yet, we have very little informations about the state of SE HS let alone the 465.

    I think it will add a layer to the route, like every other loco DLC, how many or how different they will be from the 375 nobody knows.

    I really like the 465 and I might even get it at launch if enough content is included.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  4. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    I know that's ealry to discuss this, i'm only giving my opinion, but based on what you said not having freight services and only one ECS( based on what you said we don't know) , the Sheerness Branch will be a good addiction of Gameplay as you can drive back and forth the same train and explore a different location of the route
     
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  5. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    I really like the 465 and would appreciate if the Sheerness Branch was added , is a great oportunity to add Gameplay to the route
     
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  6. flamingoodmedia

    flamingoodmedia Member

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    Ah of course it's a 466 for Sheerness, I was hoping the 465 would come with a Sheerness extension ...

    The Steam achievements are up however for the 465 and they hint at something, you've got 'no time to waste' which may of referred to the scrap & waste facilities on Sheerness, you've also got one called 'Network Expansion' which I hoped to mean an extra bit of trackage, to Sheerness perhaps ! Others were 'Overtime' and 'heading for London' or words to that effect ...

    It'll be a useful purchase for me personally as the route will feel a bit dead with just the supplied stock ... It's one thing that keeps me from buying the LGV, same train, over and over and over, might be the case in real life but it doesn't inspire a purchase ...
     
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  7. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Did the DB BR 204 expand MSB or were the areas it uses already there but not used on the release of MSB?
     
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  8. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    If the 465 didn’t run to Sheerness but the 466 did, it’s probably unlikely we’ll see Sheerness, but I remain hopeful. I like the 465 so will probably buy it anyway for use in the scenario planner as well as SHS.
     
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  9. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    The area was built but unusable because there were no diesel shunters on MSB
     
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  10. pendolino18

    pendolino18 Active Member

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    It would be appreciated for everyone sake if we did not continue to pursue this idea that a Sheerness Branch may be included.
    It was clearly stated in the stream last week that there are NO PLANS for such a branch. DTG have always been very clear from the start about the line of route and would have said a long time ago if the branch was going to be included.
    They have also said it the past that extension to routes is not a priority as they like to push out a range of routes to add variety.
    I totally agree it would 'be nice to have' but please face the fact that you won't get it (in the near future at least).
    I've no idea what the 465 will come with but thinking there is a branch in the works is setting you up for false hope.
     
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  11. caspargray

    caspargray Active Member

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    I’m not trying to dampen spirits, but they have never done a route extension with a loco add-on, and to be honest given the length of the sheerness branch I wouldn’t get your hopes up now for that to change. What I do hope is that it adds an extra layer in timetable mode - I for one will not be getting it if it just brings substitution
     
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  12. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this, in the same breath that it might only layer over the 375 services, it could also add traffic around Gravesend, giving more life to the route.

    Not very fair to tell DTG they’re doing something wrong when we don’t actually know what they’re doing.
     
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  13. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    From my point of view, especially as I don't find modern trains massively interesting, having the class 465, even if it only replaces some of the class 375's with no extra layers, would mean it would give a little more variety to the route plus I do like the sound they make!

    Whether it is worth £15 or whatever the cost will be is down to the individual.
     
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  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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  15. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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  16. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I think the 465 pack will definitely find more value from people who like to see more varied rolling stock, the “oh look a 465, nice” type crowd will probably get more use from this pack than people who want more gameplay on SHS.

    It of course adds more stock into the scenario creator too, if that’s your thing, especially for GWE.
     
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  17. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand - 465s don't run on GWML?
     
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  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes true, I would love to see more layers, especially if the service mode timetable is a little lacking which is what I have read. It will bring a little of the train spotter out in me if on standing on Rochester station a train is approaching and you have a chance of it being one of two trains or maybe even three rather than knowing it is a class 375.

    I am more of a "ooh look a class 421 in NSE livery type crowd" but at least the class 465 is a BR era product.
     
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  19. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Not realistically, but if you wanted to ‘electrify’ the GWE, it’s a good route for you to run it on, especially considering a lot of people wanted the 465 to run from central London.

    The 375 could also make a decent substitute for the 387’s they have running on it too.

    Again, I didn’t mean that the 465 should run on GWE, only that it could be a fun place to do it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  20. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah for me aslong as it’s functionally working, and sounds good, I’ll definitely pick it up, mostly because I am in the “oh look a...” crowd, and because I want to slap an NSE livery on it.

    Weather I buy it on release or when it’s on sale comes down to the details of the pack.
     
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  21. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, I like the train very much and a little variety on SE HS can be great even if it's just a substitution.

    Whether I will buy it on sale or at full price depends on the amount of content (if it will only be a substitution or add new services) and my patience
     
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  22. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Ha, yeah I forgot the patience part.
     
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  23. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    We could take the 465 on a rail tour of the LIRR (it's 750v DC 3rd rail as well).

    In all seriousness, I think the 465 will add drive able services between Faversham and Gravesend, as the 465 serves that route towards Dartford via the Sidcup, the Bexleyheath & the Slade Green lines.

    I'm hoping there might be a small extension from Gravesend to Dartford if you buy the 465, which would add another 5 stops.
     
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  24. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    465s don't go between Faversham and Medway except in the rare occasion they swap out for a 375. They have a depot at Gillingham and do some Rochester to London services (Victoria and Charing Cross) but on this route that would mean ECS moves or Rochester for three stops to Gravesend (Strood, Higham and Gravesend)

    The Sidcup line services to CHX and Victoria services via Lewisham start at Gravesend P0 (the bay platform off to the side of P1)
     
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  25. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Yep fully aware of that. 465's did use to go all the way to Dover Priory back in the early 2000's.

    There is room for poetic license when it comes to the 465 as it seems like a variety train as the stops on the route aren't really worthy of the 465 as a DLC.

    Or will that inaccuracy cause issues?
     
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  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Inaccuracy caused a 13 page post about the route, so who knows
     
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  27. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    Behave Mr Ruscoe :D:D:D
     
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  28. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    And let it not be said that it didn't get the job done.

    But in all seriousness, I don't think giving the 465 more to do will stir up much trouble...hopefully.
     
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  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Seems a bit backward really. Enforce realism to the point of storming the Capitol when it comes to a fence (albeit a big long fence) but we're fine when it comes to making a train run that doesn't run there...
    Ah Well. Ce La Vie
     
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  30. Bryer

    Bryer Well-Known Member

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    It does though. Or has done in the past. We can't comment until we know the full details.
     
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  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Exactly
     
  32. GA Railfan17

    GA Railfan17 Member

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    Hopefully they have the old traction motor sound for the 465, IMO it isnt a 465 without the old Metro-Cammel traction motors. They sound so good!
     
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  33. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    It depends which one we are getting - only the BREL/ABB 465/0 and 465/1 have been “retractioned”
     
  34. pendolino18

    pendolino18 Active Member

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    It's the 465/9. The achievements have been added to steam
     
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  35. flamingoodmedia

    flamingoodmedia Member

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    Not that it has to mean anything at all, but someone on another thread mentioned intact track west of Gravesend for a good few miles with only scenery to complete, it's rideable on the railtour scenario as passneger and this track towards Dartford DOES NOT appear on the map ... Taking a walk today from Sittingbourne along the Sheerness branch has taken me quite a distance so far, I'll keep walking to see but this track, which appears to be signalled also does not appear on the map ...

    ** Update : The second screenshot shows where the tracks themselves end for comparison, the empty heightmap/landscape goes on for what seems like forever.

    #networkexpansion ... could be ???

    Walking from Sittingbourne towards Sheerness.png Walking from Sittingbourne towards Sheerness, track ends here.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  36. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    The tracks were accessible from day one. There are collectables in the area and you can wander around.

    For the BR363 one yard was made accessible for this DLC.
     
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  37. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Maybe DTG does intend on expanding the route with the 465. It might be an opportunity for it to bring route expansion with new DLC. Either that or parts of the route are extended because they were going to make these sections originally but time disappeared on them.
     
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  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Matt and Sam have said several times they have no plans for route extensions on the current dev cycle
     
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  39. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    They have said that, but they also said they didn’t intend on adding to existing DLC or making livery editor work with existing rolling stock. Since then they’ve added to existing DLC and we are now getting livery editor compatibility to existing rolling stock. I am probably living in a fantasy land, but maybe I’m not.
     
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  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That's the important part.
    The 465 is on the current dev cycle so "with the 465" they won't be expanding or extending the route
    We don't know about future dev cycles as yet
     
  41. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    The 465 does not extend the route.

    It also does not add services - rather than have services coming later with the 465 only available if you bought that, we added ALL services from day one into the base timetable layer to make more for you to do overall on SEHS, using the 375 initially and with the 465 later, but meaning you dont need to buy the 465 to do those things.

    This means that you're able to drive the 465 between Gravesend and Rainham on shuttles - these are 2Lxx services modelled after the timings from current 9Pxx thameslink services, masquerading as Charing Cross services, Rochester and Gillingham on shuttles, and on a half dozen services that run between Gravesend and Faversham. I think it accounts for about 80 or 90 services in total including some depot runs in and out of the depot at Gillingham of course. All of those services are there for you to use right now with the 375.

    It's an interesting question... do you want more variety of gameplay in the base, or hold things back for DLC's to add it? I can't see any extra services to add now for the 465 or 375, you've got the lot.

    The 375 services running west of Rochester was a decision taken to give the route some more traffic - one of the biggest bits of feedback from the preview stream was how quiet it was and 99% of what's been added since then was just these 2L services plus the half dozen Gravesend-Faversham runs - all of which are intended to be 465 and ought to have been on their own layer but given the weight of feedback on it, it seemed that it might be more appreciated from day one. I'm definitely interested to hear if you want less in the base so you can get more in the layers on subsequent addons, it will help us plan future timetables.

    If there are services not present that you think should be on the 465, that would be interesting to hear too - using the existing route extents of course, as I said, there are no plans to extend the route from the current.

    Hope this helps answer some questions.

    Matt.
     
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  42. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Matt - I will be buying the 465 regardless, but I think that’s a really good idea going forward to have all the services included, DLC dependant or not!

    Don’t get me wrong - Sheerness would be a fantastic and well received extension even though there’s no plans, it’s a firm favourite of mine from TS Classic. But then if you added Sheerness then you need a 375/3 which currently run on the route and then formerly Class 466’s, so it’s a question of well when do you stop adding?! I understand you have to draw the line somewhere.
     
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  43. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I think holding at least some services back for a loco DLC adds value to that loco DLC - especially if those services are exclusively operated by that loco. Alternatively, have all services available but on a reduced timetable (eg a service running every 15 minutes runs every 30 minutes) and the loco DLC unlocks the full timetable.
     
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  44. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for clarifying these points. It was really helpful. Looking forward to the new train.
     
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  45. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, in this case I think it was the best decision to include them since day one, beacuse both the 465 and the 375 from what I understood are technically wrong, because those are Thameslink services.

    In some other cases if some services are only operated by that specific loco DLC then it's better not to include them in the route.

    Even if that decision de-values the loco DLC, it adds value to the route
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  46. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Personally I definitely prefer the full timetable from the start. It’s an interesting way of doing it and for what it’s worth, the right call I think.

    I know it’s probably adding more stuff to do at a time when it’s the last thing you want, but a ‘bits n bobs’ section of the manual (similar to the way AP do it) would be really nice, with some little facts about the route/trains/build like this in. Had people known this from the start I think it would have shed some positive light on the route.

    Regarding future loco DLC, I would still see it as having plenty of value as it adds variety, which is never a bad thing.
     
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  47. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    I have a question. Why do we have to wait 1min for loading the passengers if the 375 services are dense commuter services, because on East Coastway and German routes ( 422,423) we only have to wait like 30sec which is the correct thing on my opinion
     
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  48. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Maybe because it uses the same boarding tasks as the 395?
     
  49. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, but it shouldn't...
     
  50. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    The 422 on SKA has 30 seconds boarding time, and all the other trains have 1 minute, so it is possible for two different kind of services to have two different boarding time, so I guess unless it's tied to the platform it shouldn't be a problem
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
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