Class 700 Coming To Ts22

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 749006, Jan 24, 2022.

  1. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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  2. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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  3. seancrabtree2003

    seancrabtree2003 Active Member

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    So excited for this one
     
  4. jklimentowski

    jklimentowski Active Member

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    I wonder if it's going to be dual voltage to allow for Thameslink run from Brighton to Bedford.
     
  5. class2ldn2801

    class2ldn2801 Member

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    Il be scrutinising this as its what I drive at work every day lol
     
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  6. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Are they more fun to drive than they are to ride on? ;)
     
  7. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    As all the 700s are Thameslink units they have to be dual voltage.
    No reason to think it won't be dual voltage
     
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  8. class2ldn2801

    class2ldn2801 Member

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    I wouldn't say they are fun to drive, the reliability has gone up but they do suffer from weird and mysterious random issues , mainly down to software.
    Good trains overall really, nice clear view from the windscreen and ATO is quite good in the core.
    I wonder if they'll simulate the doors not opening with no pis code in lol
     
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  9. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    They’re worlds better from the driving seat than they are in the passenger cabin - although I’m speaking from driving the 700’s shorter red brother.
     
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  10. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You mean Class 707 is your controls identical to a class 700 or not? If so you can operate very easy
     
  11. Blazin

    Blazin Well-Known Member

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  12. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Apart from the 707s only working off Third Rail Supply the two designs are similar
    Like the 377s on the Brighton Line working on Third Rail only or Third Rail and OHLE depending on the sub class
     
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  13. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    Similar but not identical, should be very familiar
     
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  14. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for telling me about it the big yellow button is your AWS Reset button since I watched a Geoff Marshall video on Class 700
     
  15. jklimentowski

    jklimentowski Active Member

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  16. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    They’re not exactly complimentary…
     
  17. USRailFan

    USRailFan Active Member

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    Isn't this the trainsets that'll be scrapped after only 3-4 years in serivice due to a franchise change?
     
  18. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    No, I think you're thinking of the similar 707s which have found a new home at Southeastern. There was talk of the 360s going too but they got snapped up by EMR
     
  19. seancrabtree2003

    seancrabtree2003 Active Member

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    Wow this train needs sorting out. Just seen a preview and sounds are shocking I ride this train 5 days a week and thus sounds nothing like it . The cab looks good but let's hope AP can rework the sounds
     
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  20. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    Why should you hope for a third party to sell you better sounds ffs? You should be demanding that DTG releases it with some decent effort and get decent sounds for it.
     
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  21. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    It should not be up to AP to rework the sounds. DTG needs to rework the sounds. This is a train that is much needed in the sim and I'm glad it's here, but having to then go spend another $20 on proper sounds (making this a $42 train at retail price) is ridiculous. DTG needs to sort these sounds out. The reviews are already talking about how bad the sounds are.
     
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  22. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Active Member

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    I fully agree
     
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  23. seancrabtree2003

    seancrabtree2003 Active Member

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    To be fair I agree with you but still ate use to giving us just basic sounds
     
  24. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Active Member

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    I think everyone should come together and ask for the basics to be done by the company that created the product, in case DTG delivers us a decent product. When WCML South was released problematic, DTG spoke out and released 2 patches to fix it. The same should be done now, as there is a lack of respect for the consumer. If some 3rd company can release a patch with more elaborate sounds, why can't the official company release something simpler but of better quality?
     
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  25. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Pharix IFN.GG provided a very helpful review. Allow me to quote it from the product page. Be warned about what you're buying.
     
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  26. class2ldn2801

    class2ldn2801 Member

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    Its a shame they haven't included a lit up screen, even if fake for the HMI.
    The power and brake is wrong as its variable in real life and not notched like the 377s etc.
    The model itself looks ok but I'm certainly not in a rush to buy it, I drive them every day anyway so not a big deal for me really
     
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  27. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    If you want a laugh look at the Manual
    700 manual.jpg

    LAZY
     
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  28. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Isn't that a very early version of the manual that also says it's a freight train?

    I say that as if their manuals are much use anyway.
     
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  29. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    It is the one DTG have uploaded to the Steam website
    https://store.steampowered.com/manual/1804515
     
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  30. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Seems it may be an even earlier version then.
    upload_2022-1-27_20-42-54.png
    How bizarre.
     
  31. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, there is no excuse for this. That's dropping the ball.
     
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  32. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    Is there an issue why sounds are not quite up to par, as with the 323? Access to recordings, scripting, lack of knowledge of the prototype by modellers?
     
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  33. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Probably a combination of very small team and not being able to access recordings.
     
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  34. gee

    gee New Member

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    What was their excuse before that?
     
  35. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    Ok, so I've had a very quick initial play on AC and DC and I've got a little summary based on my experience with driving the Desiro City - albeit 707s:

    Pros:
    • The cab is spot on, the layout is correct and it looks/feels like a good representation of the cab
    • The external model is nicely done, its's missing details here and there but overall it is clearly a 700 and definitely looks the part. There's something off on the front end that I cannot quite put my finger on but to be honest it is a nice piece of work.

    Cons:
    • AWS/TPWS is incorrect, it's a Mk4 panel and so should sound exactly like the 387 does in TSW, with voices when you put the key on and another when you reset the DRA as well as a softer AWS horn. There are youtube videos I can point towards to show samples/examples of this.
    • Door sounds are identical for opening and closing doors and both are incorrect, I’m not sure whether they’ll require Just the PRM door release sounds or the door opening too as it’s mixed together.
    • AWS test should happen when the key has been turned on, rather than when you put it in forward/reverse.
    • Sounds are understandable due to the lack of opportunity to capture sounds thanks to covid but the DC sounds are almost unusable - the fibrillating whine of the train should only be heard when applying power or brake and the run sounds should eventually overtake it in volume. As it stands at the moment, it makes the train rather annoying to listen to while you drive and it does not convey any sensation of speed.
    • I'm not too sure about this one but I feel like there are more motored coaches in the 700 consist, so they should all be emitting the sounds rather than just the end coaches.
    • PBC isn't as smooth as it needs to be. The actual handle only has notches for low power, the off position and low brake - the rest of the handle positions are incredibly malleable.
    • PBC has an air hiss, unsure why.
    • The unit is overpowered. True, it’s quick amd it’s light, but driving at 100% doesn’t feel right so I was driving at 75% to make it feel more prototypical. Im not fully sure on this one though, some Desiro/Desiro City units are limited in their traction current draw in reality so I couldn’t say for certain their full capability.
    In summary, it's a good Desiro City to look at but I would be very happy to help tweak bits here and there (although there are some 700 drivers on the forum that can assist even better than I can).
    To drive, it's not particularly comparable to the real thing at the moment and I think it'd take a sound overhaul to rectify that as the incorrect sounds are a little distracting to the overall experience.
    In spite of this, I'm happy to see a 700 in TS and I look forward to seeing what the community do with it!
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2022
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  36. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I would urge DTG to use the resources available to it here among their userbase to get appropriate recordings and get proper fixes to the audio in the game. All it takes is really a good video, or set of videos, getting appropriate audio as certain actions are taken in the cab, and proper audio from the actual running of the train. Fixing things like the door open and close sounds would also go a long way to making the cab more accurate.

    I look forward to seeing the train audio improved to make it a model that can be used happily by any player, as this is a train that has a lot of places it can run. Until then, it's only usable IMO as AI.
     
  37. brummie

    brummie Active Member

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    A great summary, found it very informative and helpful as l'm sure a lot of other people on here will. Have a good day.
     
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  38. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I was just over on the ATS FB page and the 700 seems to be getting ripped apart…
     
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  39. markhazeldine

    markhazeldine Well-Known Member

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    Great to see real life drivers in here giving feedback. You're being remarkably kind to DTG I think! TBH I don't see them doing most of the stuff you listed unfortunately. They're just not charging enough to do all that. Most of it will be left up to AP to add in an EP. All I want is for them to re-mix the DC sounds a bit so there are actually running sounds and the proper door close sound (or at least something roughly like it!).

    Question for you guardupfront , is the brake gauge behaving properly? Alan Thomson reckoned it wasn't doing behaving as it should when he did his stream on Twitch last night. Also, how do you find the physics compared to real life?
     
  40. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    I'm still laughing at Tom having trouble resetting the DVD. I mean, that should not have gotten past the beta testing team. Which tells me it was not tested.

    Since I can't apparently timestamp where to go, start around 14:06.

     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
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  41. guardupfront

    guardupfront Active Member

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    I do empathise as I understand how hard it would have been to get access to a Desiro City - what with covid and social distancing going on over the past couple years, I haven't had much of a chance to drive them under instruction either until recently. I think there are a lot of niche things about a 700/707/717 that only work when a drivers key is on and so may not be fully understood by a modeller/scripter.
    Unfortunately I think the best way to allow this unit to reach its full potential is to release it into the hands of the modding community as I imagine data and sound collection over the last period of time will have been a nightmare! Totally agree regarding remixing the DC sounds, but I hope it'll be patched elsewhere like the 323 was.

    Not particularly, I barely look at the brake gauge while I drive (as the HMI (TMS) has columns with digital power and brake gauges while you drive) but I know the Main Res air should be between 8.5bar - 10bar. I haven't seen the TS 700 Main Res gauge move from 12 bar during the time I was driving it/taking a look at it so as far as I can see it's not acting correctly.
    Physics wise it is abit of a rocket ship in reality to be fair but it does feel to be frictionlessly quick in the sim. I'm not sure about the capabilities of the 700 as compared to the 707s but I am tentatively saying it's a little overpowered (although tonight I am going to put it on the PDL so I'll be able to tell you for sure based on what I expect on that route).
     
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  42. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    It's not like videos have not existed for four years giving a relatively good idea of what things sound like on this train. From May 24, 2017, from Ben Elias:



    There really was no excuse for messing up so badly.
     
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  43. DROGE

    DROGE Active Member

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    I will just say this:-

    The Power Brake Controller makes a huge, cathedral-like reverb sound, when travelling through tunnels. That's right, a small lever, placed inside the train's cab, triggers vast levels of reverb. It would be funny if it were not so tragic. I can live with most of what has been sloppily offered, except the sounds in DC mode. People keep referring to "how hard it must have been to try to get the real sounds". Actually, the issue is not with the source audio files. It's the dreadfully poor scripting and configuration of the sounds. For example, the thyrister (UFO) sounds playing constantly, at an almost constant level, the traction motor sounds continuing even while you're at idle (this problem also applied to the DTG 323), the same sound for door opening and closing, the brake hiss that, whilst it is quite a satisfying sound IMHO, is completely out of place in this unit. ........the complete absence of notable run, flange and junction track sounds.

    The single cab view, with no additional views on the cursor keys.... what is that about? That's a new one for DTG. ...... I can live with the disappointment in all areas, other than the sound configuration, which is objectively not fit for purpose.

    I've accepted the dreadful audio representations in TSW2 as being inherent of the UE engine. But in TS, there is scope for truly stunning audio representation. .... or even, just 'ok' sound. Why has the TSW2 sound misery somehow now migrated to new TS2022 releases?

    Suggestion > DTG, after finishing a new train product's model, texturing, functional scripting and sound file sourcing...... send the model to AP to script the audio, and charge us £14.99 instead of £11.99. I guarantee, this approach would benefit your business, reputation and customer satisfaction and loyalty.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2022
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  44. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    Uh...do you think Richard is just sitting around waiting for DTG to send their projects his way? While I agree that AP should be contracted for sounds, the fact of the matter is Richard would still add liveries that DTG doesn't have to an enhancement pack (typically unbranded, though branding patches exist) and do his audio improvements with that. I would love to see AP utilized more, and pricing can reflect that of course, but there will always be an improvement that they can make on top of whatever gets released.
     
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  45. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Active Member

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    I support this idea. They already had some partnership with AP before, right?
     
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  46. brummie

    brummie Active Member

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    I think this would be a great idea to use AP for sound scripting work, as pointed out, DTG'S recent offerings have all been sub standard in the sounds department and they ain't getting any better.
     
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  47. DROGE

    DROGE Active Member

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    No I don't think he's sitting around. But I know he is running a business and what I suggested would/could be a more regular income stream, to sit alongside his own standalone product offerings. They've partnered with DTG for TSW2 audio (albeit source file supply, rather than scripting) so why not bring two parties together, to play on the strengths they offer, and drive up quality?

    You're assuming that what is being suggested would negate or replace EP's being created. EP's could still be produced; adding more audio detail, along with all of the other functionality, liveries, etc, that we get in Richard's EPs.

    You must have a lot of faith, that one day DTG are just going to "crack sound". I don't - due to history :) It has always been their notable weak spot. As I see it, partnership in audio is the only way quality will improve in DTG's products.
     
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  48. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

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    If DTG figured out to hire people capable of producing good audio for their products, they very well could "crack sound". It just relies on the corporate side being willing to give the time to get proper stuff. If not, they won't bother staying, either.

    And don't get me wrong. If EP was on each project and DTG wasn't messing with their work in some fashion, then yes, the projects would as a whole be better. I just can't see it happening for every product.
     
  49. toms87

    toms87 New Member

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    Script errors, the neverending UFO sound and cab switches having cathedral like reverb in tunnels are not small glitches... this is kind of unplayeble right now.
     
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  50. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    Are we able to access the audio library in the train’s folder to determine this?

    I can well imagine the lack of flange and S&C sounds - I still recall the audio feast of that on the Open BVE 323 compared to the DTG.

    But generally now I don’t purchase DTG trains, just get them as they come in routes, and look forward to an AP EP.
     

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