Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by matjamca, Jan 10, 2021.
Surprised by this review of the GWR BR Class 800...
The build quality seems to be very poor.
I can't imagine he's making the loose panels much better by pushing and pulling them... Many people seem to have a strong dislike for these trains purely because they're replacing the HSTs, and trust me, being sat on a broken seat from London to Edinburgh on one was not fun!
I have spoken to a few workers for GWR I know who work with the 802s, and they can’t stand them.
I have ridden on one, and I much prefer the HSTs...
They look good, but appearances can clearly be deceiving.
I would arguably say that they would be better for more local services. The restriction to 5 coaches is irritating and the comfort levels aren’t great either.
The Italian-built ones are the worst ones because of their build quality. I think the British- and Japenese- built ones are mostly fine. Unfortunately the bad thing about the train were out of Hitachi's (and the TOCs') control. That being the seats. While the design is the seat is good - they're very wide with a lot of legroom - the lack of padding completely ruins them. If they had a thicker base and cushion, the trains would be universally be more liked. The lack of a buffet on some of them is disappointing but a lot of operators worlwide are now moving away from the buffet, so it's not surprising. CrossCountry did a survey years ago and found the passengers preferred a trolley service, which is why they removed the shop from the Voyagers. People were also put off by a lot of them being only 5 coaches, but again the use of multiple short sets for a long train is something not new and now is as popular as ever. The German ICE and French TGV trains are always formed of two sets connected, and they've been like that for years, so it's nothing weird.
The HSTs and Class 91/Mark 4s have been a victim of the rose-tinted glasses, as they are pretty dreadful in everything except the interior - the opposite of the IETs.
I forgot that the HITACHIs are replacing the 91s. That is criminal haha. They too were much better than the 800s.
I'm sad they're replacing the Class 91s, but not the Mark 4s.
The 91s would be a far more sensible choice than 92s for the Caledonian Sleeper in my eyes (as much as I adore Class 92s). Maybe once the GWML is electrified to Penzance they'll replace the 57s.
Oh yeah I don’t like the curvature of the Mk4 body, but I love the Class 91s.
There were plans for the 91s for the Sleepers up to Scotland. I read somewhere that the blunt end was especially for taking freight back down to England when they had arrived in Scotland, but that didn’t happen.
I read somewhere about plans to have them running from Paddington to Cardiff now that it’s electrified, but I don’t know if that’s happened.
Sorry Matjamca! I’ve gotten off topic abit
Afaik the LNER ones still have buffets
strange... I didn't know the 800s were built in Italy. Anyway our Hitachi trains (such as the Frecciarossa 1000( don't seem to have those issues
After travelling on multiple 800s I have to say that even the 143 pacer is better than the 800s in my opinion...
I thought the 800’s had been well received. I’m guessing they’ve left a lot to be desired.
GWR has always tried to boost their popularity by showing them as great. They are always seen in the adverts. But I actually think people are fed up with them already; the HSTs which they replaced were far nicer in comfort and ride quality. But the 800s are seen to be Modern and therefore the best. It’s a very similar thing as the reception of the Class 700s, which most people detest for the seating, which, I have experienced a small back issue due to. The fact they are used on long distance is annoying because they are so uncomfortable.
Well the Hiatchi 802 is built on same place where the V250 was made in Pistoia and in paris our MF77 was refurbished ( with years of delays ) by Ansaldo Breda and it was a big mess with low quality job.
700s are definitely aided by the addition of declassified first class at the back of every service, far better than the old 319s. The ride quality standing in the vestibules of a MK3 is much better than the IETs, but sitting down, I much prefer the IETs.
Very much so! On the journeys that I use them for, they are much quieter and I am able to use a table!
Well some of the IET's were made in the former AnsaldoBreda factory. And that factory is notorious for its extremely bad building quality. For example, they made the Fyra V250 for the Dutch railways. You know, these high speed trains where pieces fell off the train while driving.
Train crew that are spotters will always prefer the HST. An IET is so much easier to work compared to a HST, and generally pretty reliable.
I think the guy in the video is a HST enthusiast, and has a grudge against the 800s.
I've used them many times and the build quality is decent.
The same guy said nothing about the Aventras which are some of the worst units in the UK, which do have bad build quality and loads of other issues.
Which ones are the Aventras?
They’re the new Electrostar trains. There are quite a few versions including the Crossrail ones.
Oh I quite like the look of them. What's wrong with their build quality? (I don't live near anywhere that uses them)
Everything, they are horrifically unreliable and are 4 years late into service, because of a load of software issues.
They already have rattly panels, and the ride quality is very poor.
Haven't been on a train for over a year due to Covid, but the Hitachi units are fairly horrid from a passenger comfort point of view.
Awful seats being the main issue, the ones fitted with the revised dark grey style being a tad better than the original type but still like sitting on a lump of concrete. No one, even a dinosaur like me, expects sumptuous Mark 1 TSO style cushions anymore but considering what these replaced and that they are intended for 5 hour+ journeys, they are uncomfortable by any standard.
And yes ride quality if you sit over the wheels is quite awful.
The Mk3s are the best for comfort levels; the suspension and seating materials were perfectly balanced. But I do understand what you mean about the Mk1s being able to be absorbed by haha
The ones ordered by TOC's directly are better than the DfT ones.
The LNER ones are actually a lot better than the GWR ones, the TPE ones are even better than the LNER ones, and I've yet to ride the Hull Trains Paragon services, but I'd imagine they will be better again.
You've got new EMR ones that have stolen the rather comfortable Stadler Flirt seats, which should GREATLY improve ride quality on the 800 series.
I can confirm that they are as bad as they sound, and all the point in this review are accurate. I wouldn't even recommend the seats for a commuter trains. So uncomfortable. I have heard that the other TOC's versions of the IET are better, but I have to live with the GWR ones. Wish we could have the HSTs back. They may be old, but they are comfortable and reliable. I at least hope that GWR does a refurbishment in the next few years. May be a hopeful wish, but with the rate the panels and other stuff are falling apart, it may not be out of the question. At least if anything, give them comfortable seats that are way more appropriate for a long distance train. I could forgive the other things if the seats were comfortable.
sort of, them only got assembled at Pistoia, and we are talking only of the GWR 802s, the TPE 802 have been assembled in UK, also, in my honest opinion, I find ETR 400s pretty poor compared to ETR 500, the 500 are definitelly more confortable, and seem that who projected the interiors actually gave a care to confort, like, on 400s, not all the seats have an electric socket, also, as every Italian high speed train, they suffers of failures, none of them is safe.
The IETs are in a far better state than the full length HST sets were on GWR. Yes, the seats are a little hard, but other than that they're not bad trains. As for reliability, the HST fleet were very unreliable before their refurbishment and move to local services.
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