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Clinchfield Brakes

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by space_ace96, Apr 8, 2021.

  1. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    Is it just me, or do service brakes on the F7 just straight up not work?! Independent brakes work fine, but the service brakes do nothing and don't even change the gauges.
     
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  2. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Can confirm that applying the automatic brakes on the F7 does nothing except for Emergency. IF this is not a bug, then I dont know why it isnt mentioned in the tutorial.
     
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  3. FfestiniogMatt

    FfestiniogMatt Member

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    Same here, no automatic brakes on the F7 except for Emergency
     
  4. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Two things:

    The "rotair" valve must be set to "Freight", or the stand wont work at all.

    The brakes themselves are manually lapped, so "first" gives you an initial set, then move up to "service" to start adding more and when you hve enough, move back to "lap". "Release" to release them all again.

    Hope this helps.

    Matt.
     
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  5. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Is there a manual for this route?
     
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  6. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    Thanks Matt. I'm in the tutorial, and my settings are exactly as you described, both here and through your disembodied voice in the tutorial. Someone on Discord has figured out brakes do not work in tutorials, but they work fine in service mode and scenarios.
     
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  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    As reported by the console users, there seems very little detent going into service then accidentally into emergency, even using the keyboard. In terms of using service and lap, well I’m still going through the second tutorial and not a huge issue per se, it’s just the sensitivity. Will mention as well in passing, the tutorial doesn’t cover how to change ends after loading the hoppers, in terms of shutting the cab down.
     
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  8. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    Also Emergency works fine. Just the service brakes are the issue. Once I'm out of the tutorial, I will test this myself and submit a bug report if necessary.
     
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  9. FfestiniogMatt

    FfestiniogMatt Member

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    Got 'em. Cheers Matt :)
     
  10. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Matt, I am aware of your instructions and thank you for that.. In the introductory tutorial I set rotar valve according the instructions. When you set the brake to service, you do not see the pressure in the brake cylinder increase. You must put it into emergency. Then pushing it into lap position cause the pressure in the brake cylinder to decrease till zero quite fast. I agree with the other people here, that something seems to be quite wrong with the brakes.

    I will watch the stream later and hopefully we will find out what we are doing wrong.
     
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  11. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    What service/scenario is this in? I was just driving it a minute ago on the F7 and all seemed perfectly fine to me there.
     
  12. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    ah is this in the tutorial?

    Late on in develoment, the "cut-out" valve was added - could it be this is in the wrong place? Look down at the base of the brake stand and see if the brakes are cut in - let me know if that helps. I'll try and take a look myself as well later.
     
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  13. Cyklisten

    Cyklisten Active Member

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    Well I just got the same issue and went here to check if others experience the same, the first thread i saw was this one. So, looks like something needs a quickfix ;) Matt: I've tried the valve, it was in the cut-in position when starting the tutorial. Resetting it doesn't help.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
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  14. thatsn0moon

    thatsn0moon New Member

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    I had this issue in the learning the F7 tutorial but just assumed it’s because you’re shunting cars without a caboose or a EoTD that you’d only have loco brakes? Mind you I have very little understanding of US train brakes.
     
  15. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    I just went back and checked the cut out valve and its is set to cut in when you start, so that is not the issue here. It seems to me its real touchy and difficult to control. Overall this is starting out as a good route and that initial introduction to the F7 was nice in that it actually had you do some yard work, not just get in and move the locomotive a few hundred yards like most locomotive intros do.
     
  16. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    Actually with US trains anytime you have cars/wagons attached you need to use the automatic (train brake) to control your cut/rake of cars. The independent (loco brake) is really not as strong as it seems here.
     
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  17. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    First of all. I am amazed! Gorgeous! 11/10 for me.
    But - brakes (introduction) doesn't work OK?
    Tried both freight/freight lap. Maybe the second cab should be configured too?
     
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  18. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Ok just looked and the issue is that the REAR loco also has the brakes cut in for some reason, so it's releasing as fast as you can apply essentially.

    Pop into the other loco and cut the brakes out and you should find it works better.

    I'll get it over to the team to look at a fix.
     
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  19. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Matt, should follow the known adage of always check your trailing units.
     
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  20. Cyklisten

    Cyklisten Active Member

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    Now we are talking fast response! Please, do I really need to go to work tomorrow!? Maybe some throat ache, enough for staying home right now ;D
     
  21. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    Matt when we switch cabs, how should we leave the unit we're leaving from set?
     
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  22. Strangerdanger

    Strangerdanger New Member

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    I'm in the other cab but the brakes seem to be cut out already and it's still not applying brakes, but i guess i can wait for a fix, for now time to play service mode then.
     
  23. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    help.png

    Following Matt:
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021
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  24. Strangerdanger

    Strangerdanger New Member

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    Thanks breblimator ill try that now
     
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  25. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    Just completed the tutorial with independent brakes and popped into to see if anyone else had the same issue. Glad to have a solution already. Thanks Matt
     
  26. ckop64

    ckop64 New Member

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    Thanks Matt!
     
  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    A longtime problem across TSW has been that there is, on most locos, an inadequate detent between the "service/apply" brake position and "emergency." It is way, way, way too easy to go to emergency when you don't want to, and pop the PCS. Or worse, stick yourself with a nasty hill start on a steep grade.
     
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  28. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    The trail unit is set to "cut-in" in the tutorial. Once i cut them out the brakes work as expected. It's weird because they're setup correctly in timetable mode, from the one i've been able to run so far.

    Edit: nvm, you already figured it out lol
     
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  29. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    The three pull switches for the control pump, gen field etc should be OUT / OFF.
    Brake cut out should be CUT OUT.
    Rotair should be FREIGHT LAP.
    Reverser NEUTRAL.
    Throttle 0
    Transition lever 0 / OFF / etc - not 1, or B or anything else.
    Auto/Train brake - RUNNING
    Loco/Indy brake - RELEASE

    Matt.
     
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  30. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    This could be integrated into the design of the cabins. Some handwritten instructions on a piece of paper pinned somewhere on the wall. So for the future. It would be less trouble. Besides - the F7 is phenomenal!
     
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  31. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes thoroughly enjoying the experience, even though most of the run I'm doing is downhill. Will finish tomorrow, just hope the save game mechanism doesn't stuff up - even more important when I get to the timetable sections that follow on into the next.
     
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  32. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    So no "Handle Off" position or the equivalent?
     
  33. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I dont think it has a handle off position if memory services.
     
  34. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    the problem with the F7 tutorial is that the rear engine also has it's brakes cut in. I checked and set it to out (SPG habit) and my brakes worked fine. however, the F7's engine stopped randomly about 7 times (2 times during tutorial and the rest during limited power scenario), the dynamic brakes didn't switch, and I derailed for no reason on the "limited power" scenario. when I went to drive the SD40 the engines shut off when I send the camera to the rear of the train and wouldn't turn back on.
     
  35. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    I *think* these locomotives have the "throttle -1 to shut off engine" thing that the Caltrain locos do... i.e. perhaps you're dropping the throttle too hard and hitting that shutdown position? I may be misremembering it and will check. Must admit i've never had any locos suddenly switch off.
     
  36. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Do not release the brake until you feel the power :) Throttle first.
     
  37. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    no it happened when I applied the brakes to turn around while filling coal cars.
     
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  38. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    oh also I should add that on 2 of the random shut-offs, the bell in the rear cab started ringing.
     
  39. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Try not to brake / accelerate too rapidly. TSW reacts like this on steep slopes :)
     
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  40. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Probably how the TGV derailed...
     
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  41. donjgatlin

    donjgatlin New Member

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    No. An EOT is not required to use the automatic (trainline) brake. The only thing the EOTD does is allows you to see the pressure on the rear of the train (to verify all cars are basically properly charged) and to dump the brakes from the rear in an emergency for good train handling purposes. You do not need an EOT at all in the US if you're under 5400 tons, even current day as long as you have a marker (red flag / red light at night) OR if you're operating a transfer train in yard limits <20 mph.
     
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  42. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    The automatic brakes feel really weak even in a scenario. This is one of the times, I really wish there was a manual. I like Matt's youtube videos but sometimes a reference guide is handy. I would have to run through today's stream again to see what I am missing out on the F7 operation.
     
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  43. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Check 'few' post above for a solution :)
     
  44. Schnauzahpowahz

    Schnauzahpowahz Well-Known Member

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    I saw someone mention this earlier and seems to do the trick, appreciate the confirmation


    Also earlier when you mentioned it "must" be freight, is that static - as in none of the other settings actually work? Just curious on this as well


    Surely is confusing the other loco brake cut ins being applied making it seem like the brakes are non existant, if that were reworked itd be a huge step forward being a first impression and the main negative report for steam reviews fwiw.

    Thx again for clearing the air.
     
  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Passenger works fine, and may be preferable with a short consist, or even a medium consist of empties.

    The freight setting makes the brakes apply and release more slowly. This is desirable in a long, heavy train.
     
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  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's a bug, Matt pointed out in today's stream that it's a bug, and it should be fixed in the first patch. (It only affects the tutorial; it doesn't happen in Service or Scenario mode)
     
  47. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    That did it - second loco was also cut in and you're right, in reality this is exactly what would happen. I'm in the intro tutorial where I encountered this. No driver should ever leave the locomotives with the stand cut in and this is the reason why!

    Paul
     
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  48. wirewalker#4169

    wirewalker#4169 New Member

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    Cutting out the brakes on the trailing loco solves the issue. It would be a good idea to do a tutorial on YouTube that explains the need to set up the loco's on this route and SPG so that everything works as it should. Once you are used to checking all the locos to make sure they are set up they work fine but until you get used to it things can get frustrating. I am not sure that the fact the brakes on the second loco is a bug but as this was a tutorial it should have made you go to the second loco and check it was set correctly.
     
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  49. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    I was running the SD-40. Coupled to some hopper cars at the front and the PCS Open sign came on and the brake pressure is only 74 and the throttle doesn't work. Did anyone else run into this? How do I reset the PCS and run the service? Any help appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  50. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Popping the PCS happens- it's annoying, but recoverable. Often you haven't even done anything wrong, just coupled to a long string of cars (since TSW abstracts the connection of air hoses, excessive flow can result).

    To reset:
    Auto (train) brake to Emergency
    Indy (loco) brake to 100%
    Throttle to Idle
    Reverser to neutral

    Now, after you have done that, wait 60 seconds. Then when you move the auto brake to release, the PCS light should go out and you're good to go.
     
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