1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Clinchfield Railroad - Kind Of Expected Better Visuals?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Dinosbacsi, May 28, 2021.

  1. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    1,629
    So when we got the first preview images and videos of Clindchfield Railroad, it looked pretty promising, and even after release ot got plenty of positive feedback about it's visuals. It's been said that it looks great, especially in comparison to Arosalinie, which was released almost at the same time.

    So after hearing all the positive feedback about the route, I decided to buy it now that it was on sale. And while it looks like a great route with very good gameplay so far, visually I find it kind of underwhelming... Especially after all the people saying how great it looks.

    I mean especially the terrain. It looks horrible at places.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    It mostly looks great up close, when there is grass and other foilage covering it, but the grass doesn't render too far, so all you're left is the bare, empty ground with ugly, repeating textures.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And at many places you don't even have to look too far away, the ground alongside of the tracks will be without any foilage, and the incredibly ugly repeating textures clearly visible RIGHT ALONG the tracks.
    [​IMG]

    And if the repeating terrain textures were not enough, at many places there are these horrible terraforming jobs producing extremely ugly results.
    [​IMG]

    So even though the route looked promising at first, it's far, far from what I expected visuals wise. At first I suspected that some of my settings might not be all the way up, but after checking, they are. So is this how the route simply is? I mean it looks so horrible and unfinished at places. How is this supposed to be TSW standard?

    Also the quality of detail and especially LODs seem to be really bad on the route. Lots of LOD popping in as things are getting closer and as you switch cameras, and the 3D models and their textures just seem to be quite low quality compared to other TSW assets. It's almost like most models were simply ported from Train Simulator, even though I don't suspect that being the case. It's just the quality is much lower than expected.

    What are your guys thoughts? I mean I'm a bit bummed, after all the feedback saying how great the route is, I expected much better. The gameplay is really good, but the terrain...
     
    • Like Like x 10
  2. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,893
    Likes Received:
    3,205
    For me, 95% of the route looks fabulous. 5% as on your pictures ;) meh meh yeah
     
    • Like Like x 4
  3. OsamaBinLiftin

    OsamaBinLiftin Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2021
    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    90
    The "Clinchfield Reimagined" mod from TheShotte may not fully fix the terrain but it's a definite improvement in general and makes the route feel more realistic, and given that you're posting in the PC forum, I think this would be a good solution for you. I doubt there will ever be a proper terrain fixes so mods will probably be your best bet.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  4. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,893
    Likes Received:
    3,205
    And do not forget to try this stuff, Dinosbacsi. Be careful, this is really hot :)
    link

    haha You are so fast :)
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2021
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  5. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    468
    Likes Received:
    529
    I love Clinchfield, but yeah I think people oversell the scenery quite a bit. The amount of trees and foliage while decent and I absolutely understand that they have to keep it playable for lower end hardware is a bit barren. And a lot of the texturing is too basic, so you'll just get very ugly brown patches of nothing through out the route.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    1,252
    Likes Received:
    1,957
    That is the danger of listening to other people :D

    The scenery of CRR is a bit hit and miss. For me, ~80% of the scenery is stunning - the rest is more like what your pictures show. The great thing is though that when the scenery is good, it‘s stunningly good on CRR. Leaving Dante with the little creek besides the rails and the muddy water looks fabulous for example. Of course, this is all just my opinion. Same goes for the next paragraph.

    I think the best part about CRR is that it appears to have been done with little compromise necessary: The scenery is good, the gameplay is fantastic, the F7 is good, a huge selection of cars is included. With many other routes, you can immediately tell where time was saved, what compromises had to be accepted to get the route done. You‘ll have to look a little bit harder than usual on CRR to find these compromises.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    1,314
    I tend to agree after a few runs, it does just seem you’re running through a series of wooded troughs which is kind of the issue for me, very little distant scenery. It’s certainly no Tehachapi or Kicking Horse Pass in terms of the vistas, for sure.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    1,629
    Thank you for the tip, guys! I didn't know about this mod, but I'm downloading it right now and will give it a go. Seems really promising.

    It's true that most of the route looks good, but really it's all just grass and trees spammed around, probably with a cluster or autogen tool. There are often big gaps between where the track ballast ends and where the grass starts, so you just have the emtpy terrain there. The repeating textures are the worst offender so far, of course. And things like railroad crossings are really badly placed, from what I've seen so far.

    So while the route looks good overall because of all the trees and grass, everything that actually requires detail seems to be a bit weak. There are some really nice spots though, but still, the scenery feels like it's been made in a hurry at many places.

    I think the ammount of foilage is good for the most part. I can even understand the grass disappearing too soon, as the route already seems to be more performance heavy than other routes. But the grass problem could be solved if the ground texture matched the grass in color (which the mod linked above does already, so thanks god for that).

    And the repeating texture problem could've been solved by not using the same one everywhere - that costs nothing performance wise. I mean they have a cluster tool for foilage and other scenery objects, they surely have one for ground textures as well, right? If not, then they should really need one, because all these tiled, repeating texture are unacceptable in a 2021 game.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2020
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    403
    So how was the mod Dino? Been umming and arring about this route myself. The sleep-inducing speeds of these types of yank routes put me off.
     
  10. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    1,629
    Only had one run so far and it was in the rain (which makes the ground shinier, which is also pretty ugly), but it's definitely a great improvement. While previously pretty much everything in front of me was an eyesore after the grass ended, the mod fixes a lot. The new grass terrain textures blend in much better with the foilage grass, so the grass popping in is less noticeable and the distant terrain looks better. Most of the tiling repeating textures this way are also gone, which makes trackside look significantly better.

    Obviously it can't fix everything sadly, as said above. Like the tile that has no grass foilage whatsoever is still not fixed (even though I expected DTG to fix it by now since release), and for some reason there are holes in the terrain at places. Like at some tunnel entrances you can clearly see holes in the ground right along the track.

    But long story short, the mod makes things much better. And despite the visual issues, it's a nice route. Sure, a bit slow at places, but still interesting as there are many gradient changes and you have to constantly play with the dynamic brake (and sometimes even the train brake) to keep your speed under control. It's not like Sand Patch Grade where you just cruise up or down, you really have to know what you're doing here. It's really easy to mess up and you end up overspeeding with blocked wheels sending sparks all around, or just struggling to get the train started on an incline. So gameplay wise it's a really good experience.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    3,905
    Likes Received:
    9,568
    All I would say is don’t believe the hype. That is true wherever the hype comes from. There are a few trendsetters on the forum and as soon as they give a thumbs up or thumbs down for a route it sways the general direction the opinions go in.

    CRR is as good and as bad as any other DLC is. There are numerous issues with the SD40 for instance, more than with a lot of trains that get a blasting on the forum. There are unplayable services as the banking comms were omitted. There are bits of dubious scenery as you have found, with the skybox showing through hills and tunnel entrances and unfinished textures etc. It’s more or less the same quality as most DTG releases but has been accepted more readily for some reason. Bad things sometimes get blown out of all proportion though and that hasn’t happened with CRR, so the majority of feedback has been constructive and not sensationalised. It’s good to see actually.

    It is a fantastic route but not without its issues. I think the premise of the route, the service pattern and the awesomeness of the F7 have overshadowed and distracted from the issues somewhat and people have focussed on what is good about the route and not got in a tizzy about the issues, something that is worthwhile doing yourself if you find you are getting too frustrated with TSW.

    For comparisons with Arosalinie, that route’s close up scenery is far far better than CRR and the quality of the electrical cables and substations is worth the entrance fee alone. The frame rate is double that of CRR and for Arosalinie that was the right choice over better distant scenery in my opinion. The difference in the ferocity of the feedback here is the only thing that really sets the two routes apart. CRR is better because of its content and scope but the quality is similar, with a different bias on different aspects, but the build quality is not night and day as you might expect.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  12. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2020
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    403
    It seems as though Q+A isn't given the go-ahead to check for those types of issues, it was the same for SEH there were floating assets here and there which are clearly visible from the cab but nothing addressed before release, why doesn't it matter?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    1,629
    Yes, after trying it out, it's clear that scenery wise it's about sub standard. I suppose the main reason people said it looks amazing because it actually has trees on the distant mountain sides, therefore mostly hiding the ugly terrain, compared to Arosalinie, which does not have as many trees.

    I'm kind of bummed, as I naively expected Sand Patch Grade scenery quality, but sadly it's far from the case. I still enjoy the route, as it's a great experience, and the mods help a lot, but man, what a shame. Sadly I don't think I will be able to fully recommend it this way, because even though it's mor enjoyable with the mods, one shouldn't rely on modders, it's certainly not an acceptable build quality in my opinion.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    269
    Likes Received:
    912
    Even with these flaws, I still think the environment on CRR looks better than on any other route currently in the game (ok maybe not SPG, forgot about that one) It looks and feels very atmospheric. The problem is that it's let down by core TSW shortcomings and that is pretty much what you have documented. The missing grass on certain parts is clearly a tile bug and should have been fixed a long time ago.
    Something that helps a lot is the engine.ini modification "r.MaterialQualityLevel=0" which basically makes all the grass and weeds render as soon as they are loaded in. The annoying pop-up effect is gone and forest on Clinchfield looks much more covered. (as you can see below) The issue with it is that it also completely removes the 3d gravel effect and only leaves the texture. It's a major drawback, but it still makes routes look so much better foliage-wise that it's worth the cost to me. You can try it out for yourself and then decide, what you actually prefer. 20210529142249_1.jpg 20210529142522_1.jpg

    P.S. I don't understand why DTG doesn't somehow give us an option to increase the grass render distance, as many PCs could easily take it and it's a huge improvement.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
    • Like Like x 8
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  15. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,893
    Likes Received:
    3,205
    Somewhere in the forum, there is a thread like this: arrange the DLCs from best to worst in your opinion. The results are shocking to me. It is all a matter of taste. But I've noticed something else recently: focusing on the downsides, not on the pros. I like to see beauty in life. This is also how I approach TSW. I just don't like something very ugly or not working.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  16. Cygnific

    Cygnific New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    12
    Too many repeating textures and assets are just artists being 'lazy'. UE provides enough tools and settings to make it as pretty as you want.

    Things like this is a good reason to be able to use the UE editor and have the community make it better, since just replacing a texture wont work here.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. LuPatrenX

    LuPatrenX Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2020
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    26
    Remember, original textures take up more memory. Memory is a premium on older consoles (TSW 2 is resource intensive as it is) and that's an issue that cannot be fixed until they focus solely on PC and the new consoles. That isn't lazy. It's standard across all games (pre-PS5 and XSX anyway).

    If you see a tree multiple times, you can be sure it's in the files more than once due to how HDD works. Spiderman, for example, used 1GB on a single trashcan because the asset was used so many times. Trees are notorious memory hogs (something else I've read over the years when it comes to game development) and using too many can be an issue. Especially if they are of different types. Now once UE5 rolls around and last gen is out of the picture, you might get your wishes as you'll only need an object once and only once in the files. That would definitely free up resources (especially space) to do the extra work on landscape. But you all gotta remember that there are prerequisites here.

    Just because something SEEMS possible, doesn't mean it is. Yet. 2022's summer update maybe as UE5 won't be out until later this year.

    I feel like these forums purposefully miss the little details....
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2021
    • Like Like x 5
  18. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,932
    Likes Received:
    1,703
    As I read this thread and others like it, I keep reminding myself that every evaluation in every message is purely subjective, depending not only on the writer's perception of TSW2's graphics, but also on personal expectations arising inevitably from comparisons to other games and simulations, and thus to be taken with considerable doses of doubt. Let's face it, folks, even reality is sometimes disappointing when compared to the enhancing fog of memory and comparison.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  19. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,893
    Likes Received:
    3,205
    DTG doesn't have an easy life. It is true. This community is very colorful in opinions :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    1,629
    There are plenty of ways to prevent repeating textures without using up any more memory. The limitation of consoles is not an excuse here, and no, this is not a standard, lol.

    And no. I don't even know what you are talking about. Just because a 3D asset appear more times on a map, it won't take up more HDD space or memory. You just only need to load it into the memory once, then the software will use that data over and over again. If your game loads an asset EVERY SINGLE TIME it uses it, then you've made a very, very bad software. So I don't know where you got this silly info, but I can tell you that it is not the case, not in TSW or any other game.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2019
    Messages:
    2,893
    Likes Received:
    3,205
    A short summary about CRR visuals :) ** this is the channel of one of our forum colleagues

     
  22. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    1,628
    Yes, this is what the route looks like to me. With TheShotte's texture mod and engine.ini adjustments to increase render distances, I think it looks quite spectacular. Granted, that is not the vanilla experience, but for me, nothing in TSW is.

    upload_2021-5-30_19-56-15.png

    Cheers
     
    • Like Like x 3
  23. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,128
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    japan.PNG japan2.PNG If you want to see how good we have it today, watch my stream from last week on the original Microsoft Train Simulator, now that was state of the art in 2001. We've got it great now :).



    Paul
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 31, 2021
    • Like Like x 11
  24. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    1,629
    Why would you compare TSW to a 20 year old game? It wouldn't make sense to begin with, but it especially doesn't in this case, because the problem here is not TSW's graphics, but the low standards routes are built with. Repeating textures, holes in the scenery, badly placed and floating assets, missing foilage on certain tiles, horrible asset pop-in, etc... These are not weaknesses in the game's graphics, but simply bad/lazry/rushed route building techniques. Avoiding these doesn't require upgrading the game's graphics, would just simply require more care when making assets and the route itself.

    This is clearly visible when even modders can easily improve on them by changing just a few things, or when certain parts of a route are better built than other parts of it. TSW has a strong foundation with many great features, but for some reason (either laziness, carelessness or just lack of development time), many of them get overlooked and left out.

    They should really set a standard for themselves, based on all the good things they've done previously, and follow these standards when making routes, rolling stock and other assets. And give them more time to polish content, because the lack of polish is clearly showing at many places, sadly. And the saddest part is that many of these could be easily avoided, therefore all this frustration from the playerbase wouldn't exsist in the first place.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    2,732
    The attraction of CRR was never the scenery for me. I have the TS version and I've traveled through rural Kentucky and Virginia, so I knew what to expect. No, the allure was the locomotives, particularly the F7, and the gameplay of a US coal and freight route. Any disappointment I have is tied to the locos, specifically the missing banking com, the SD40 horn and the awful headlights, which make some services pretty unplayable or at least unenjoyable. Overall, though, I still think the route is a solid investment, more so if they fix the loco issues.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  26. Rutger Luiten

    Rutger Luiten Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    69
    The tunnel camera isn’t fixed yet and I wont aspect it will be fixed.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  27. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    380
    How smooth is your experience with all your ini changes? I always end up removing them and going back to vanilla as I don’t like stutters. My PC is a fairly good one too.
     
  28. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    1,628
    I still get a normal amount of stutters, which can be annoying, but never more than half a second of stutter. Actually, my performance used to be quite good with geloxo's tweaks before the HHL update, but since then I have had more issues with them and so removed from my configuration. The one that causes the most headaches is r.TextureStreaming=0, but since I need it for DX12 mode I have just learned to live with it. Normal modifications like extending foliage view distances or what have you may drop the average FPS, but do not seem to incur any more stuttering than usual.

    Cheers
     
  29. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    963
    Likes Received:
    1,154
    Played it a few times..... I’ve paid £25 to confirm my gut feeling...”slow, lifeless route”.

    too sterile and nothing happening
     
    • Like Like x 3
  30. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2020
    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    403
    Yes, my gut feeling too, glad I held off.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  31. BladesAndRazors

    BladesAndRazors Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2021
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    70
    I have the feeling the most scenarios play at night with rain so no landscape is visible. Did 3 so far and the next is also at night.
     
  32. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    1,629
    Regarding rain, it's not a visual things, but another weird inconstancy is that in the SD40 you can hear the rain tapping on the roof when it's raining, while in the F7 this sound is missing. Whether it's the sound effect that's missing or the feature as a whole, I don't know, but it's pretty silly.

    And continuing my thought process on inconsistent sounds, the joints and gaps in the rails are so beautifully modelled.
    [​IMG]
    Yet the locomotives, neither the SD40 nor the F7, don't make any clack when going over them. Funnily enough, the hopper cars do! So the locomotive you're sitting in is missing such an important, iconic sound of a railway, yet the 50 or so freight cars behing you produce this sound for each of their wheels, even though you'll most likely never hear them from the cab. But the train you're sitting in and spending 1-3 hours in, will quietly glide over rail gaps. Again, I don't know if it's the feature missing or just the sound effect, but pretty ridiculous.

    And this is why I say they need a standard, a checklist or something when making assets. Because this inconsentcy is ridiculous, and as much as I enjoy driving on the route, I just cannot recommend it in this state.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  33. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    1,399
    Likes Received:
    3,986
    I agree with the majority of your statement, CRR is definitely far from being as good as people say. Broken SD40, banking comms etc. I'd even tend to agree Arosa has better close-up scenery in some aspects. But it definitely was a huge misstep with the distant scenery. Mountain range routes, especially set in places like the Alps, have to nail the overall look of... well the Alps. They could've at least put some effort into proper texturing. And if they really feel like they can't do it justice... choose a different route. Some, where you don't have to make huge complex valleys or where the scenery is not such an important aspect. Yet from the roadmap, we know Rivet went for another such route, where the scenery is key... WHY?
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 5
  34. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    3,905
    Likes Received:
    9,568
    One thing that’s important to DTG is getting the feel of the route right and in that way CRR is one of the best routes and Rivet didn’t quite get it right with Arosa, even with the good quality bits because the scenic aspect of the route was compromised. It could go either way with Cornwall and that remains to be seen. Without good distant scenery they won’t capture Cornwall well, and while IoW was captured well close to the track, the distant trees were shocking, something they didn’t repeat on Arosa but the mountains were bad. Hopefully they have learnt enough from both routes and their reception. DTG have got the distant aspect right with CRR partly at the expense of framerate, at least on console, and Rivet don’t like to do that. They might have to to get Cornwall to look and feel right. Scenic routes should have good scenery and Rivet need to juggle things more to get there.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  35. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    269
    Likes Received:
    912
    Well I think it's quite the opposite. To me, CRR with its complex service mode feels more real and alive than all those passenger mainlines with 200+ copy/pasted services while everything else is dead. Slow and quiet is not the same as lifeless.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
    • Like Like x 3
  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,559
    Likes Received:
    6,513
    It's a mountain freight route. In other words, the sort of thing which people who don't like that sort of thing don't like.

    If you don't care for kidney, don't order kidney and then complain it tastes like kidney.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  37. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,545
    Likes Received:
    2,732
    I think SPG is still the gold standard as far as scenery goes. And it's several years old, go figure. But like all of TSW, it's pretty sterile. Life doesn't happen in the game, people are not walking around. If we see one, it's "special". For the most part, no dogs are barking, no cars are honking, no crews are building anything, birds are largely extinct. This is not, I think, entirely DTG's fault. They are constrained by memory and performance restrictions. I'm convinced they could do a lot more if they were set free. Maybe the upgrade that's coming will start to change that. Right now, you can have the most powerful PC or a spanking new PS5/ XBoxX and it will not change the game, other than loading times and frame rates. If you think GCC will have any more true life than CRR, think again. Apart from the passengers, that is. But you probably won't hear an owl hooting (CRR should definitely have lots of them), or any of the things I mentioned earlier. You will have some dynamic weather. That's progress. If Rush Hour brings the game to real life, I will be the first one to fist pump and cheer. Personally, I'd rather load coal than load people, but, either way, we need the hustle and bustle of noisy, everyday life. It will come eventually, I'm sure, but, for now, the world sleeps.
     
  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    4,559
    Likes Received:
    6,513
    Simply adding a birds-and-insects ambient track to the sound mix would go an awfully long way
     
    • Like Like x 1
  39. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    1,629
    Yes, SPG definitely should be the standard, both scenery and small features wise as well. I mean the scenery is almost perfect on it, sound mixing is good, you hear small rattles as the train goes and the engine revs, you actually hear clacks as you go over junctions and rail joints, etc. And you say there are no people walking around, but there actually are a few in the town section. Not many, definitely could be more, but they are there.

    There are actually some pretty good ambient sounds in TSW. I mean on most routes you can hear birds chirping around you, in towns you can hear distand sirens and so on. It's true that sometimes they could be more varied and specific, like you mentioning owls on CRR. But overall they're not bad. Even on CRR the coal processing plants makes sounds, you can hear the beeping of work equipment (even if the diggers are not moving, lol), etc.

    But back to the point, SPG definitely should be the standard visuals wise, with the addition of a bit more life to the routes. When Peninsula Corridor launched and it brought road traffic to TSW, that was amazing. But some animated scenery objects, and as you mentioned, walking pedestrians at visible places, would be great. I don't think the technical part of them would be any challenge to DTG, it would just require more development time, most likely, to make these objects.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  40. Oli R C

    Oli R C Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2021
    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    76
    Just to confirm there is indeed at least one person wandering around on SPG...
    20210327161441_1.jpg

    ...and there are actually several birds circling overhead, too...
    20210326221228_1.jpg

    Certainly agree that SPG's scenery, although not without a few oddities, is up there with the best...
    20210326223911_1.jpg

    Even the more 'mundane' sections look fab...
    20210327161302_1.jpg

    As for Clinchfield, whilst the sections highlighted by the OP are unforgivable, there is an awful lot that looks equally stunning, so if you like that sort of route, it's still a no-brainer, I would say. :D
     
    • Like Like x 3
  41. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    423
    The difference with spg is that to me it feels like they took their time with it, it was the first release for tsw, it had to be good, whereas if it would have been pumped out like clinchfield with limited time the quality would have been a lot worse
     
  42. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    1,629
    Well yeah, that pretty obviously is/was the case. But ideally the later releases should build upon the original route and be even better, not worse and worse even after 3 years.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  43. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    423
    Indeed, I rather have one route every 6 months with spg quality compared to the quality of recent releases, but i guess they need to make money fast... Or so it seems
     
  44. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    380
    To be fair SPG is at v2, the distant scenery on the original CSX Heavy Haul was not brilliant but it was overhauled for TSW 2.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  45. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    Messages:
    260
    Likes Received:
    423
    Clinchfield was built for tsw 2, so even less reason for some of its scenery quality
     
    • Like Like x 1
  46. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    936
    Likes Received:
    1,628
    I think the point being made is that not only was the original SPG developed over the course of several years (at least two IIRC), but that it also received a second pass of work and detailing for TSW2. SPG has had, by an extremely large margin, the most amount of time dedicated to its development than any other TSW route—and it shows. DTG can not be expected to spend multiple years creating each route, and players would certainly be unhappy if the releases were so slow. They have found a middle ground where they believe they can extract a reasonable amount of quality within a given time-frame; whether or not you agree with their perception of quality is another story.

    Cheers
     
    • Like Like x 3
  47. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    963
    Likes Received:
    1,154
    More akin to I tried some kidney with sand patch and liked it a lot, I thought I’d try kidney at a new restaurant and it was only half cooked to my personal taste sir.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  48. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    1,629
    The only difference between TSW's SPG and TSW2's SPG are the distant trees, as far as I know. I doubt other scenery was touched much, if any.

    I mean even before TSW2 released I always though it was the best looking route out of all TSW routes.
     
  49. Cygnific

    Cygnific New Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2018
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    12
    Walls and hedges shouldn't be a problem because most of the time they are not continuously on screen and have to be loaded/streamed anyway. Trees are not the problem either, because they hardly repeat in the same position. I dont know what texture sizes they use for old-gen (and dont care tbh, I stopped using the Xbox One (X) version long ago)
     
  50. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    963
    Likes Received:
    1,154
    Had you asked me a year ago I would have sung from the houses how crap SPG grade was and how boring it was.
    That was until I worked out the brakes etc and became one of my favourite most played routes


    I was therefore enthused by CRR, the scenery I hadn’t noticed so much, I just hate running the route and seeing maybe two trains and I can’t even describe how much it annoys me seeing diggers etc never move at any time of day.


    I actually bought ts2021 a month or so back and pulling out of kings cross cranes are spinning and all sorts yet we have less on movement on some routes on a new sim (and don’t even get me started on trying to fathom why an older game has a far better map. DTG can layer in another 100 service to a route but can’t add a label or overlay something on their map so I know where I am)

    Off my soapbox now but I love the ts2021 map as I get a little geography lesson at same time
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2021
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page