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PC Clinchfield Tick List

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by solicitr, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Since DTG almost invariably follow a new route release with a "month one" patch, to catch at least the biggest bugs, I though I would list all those that I have noted so far. I have broken them into four categories, from near game-breaking (few) to picayune (many and trivial). Obviously, this is from a player's perspective; from a programmer's viewpoint the effort involved to fix may be of quite other proportions

    1) Verge of unplayability:

    • CRR Extra 3016 South - Southbound Coal (Journey Chapt. 2). While playable (barely), this scenario has you start with 3 SD40s pulling a loaded coal train on a 1.6% grade in the snow. While 9000 hp is plenty of raw power, you cannot use most of it because the wheels break traction at anything over Notch 3/803 amps: wheelslip and backslide. So you have to leave it in that setting, doing 0.6mph(!) for over an hour until the train reaches the tunnel and a shallower grade, where one can finally throttle up. This service is perfectly fine in dry conditions but adding wintry weather makes it an unbelievable chore. The best workaround discovered to date also provides DTG with the fix: one can simply let the train roll backwards from the start point to a section of flatter grade, and from there get a good start and run the service normally. All DTG need to do is reposition the start point further back down the hill.
    • DP/helper engines. Not functional. Was supposed to work, but something slipped and it was not implemented in the release.
    • McClure Shifter Parts 1 and 3 (Journey Chapt. 3) Starting condition: steep grade, brakes not set (in fact, cut out). As soon as the player clicks the Begin button, the train begins to roll backwards down the hill, and barring very quick action SPADs. (Also, since this is in pitch-black dark there are almost no visual cues, nor can one see the very necessary brake cut-out and MU2 valves, which have no keyboard maps). Brakes should be set at scenario start.
    • Limited Power I have not had this problem, but several have reported it. Sometimes the AI loco that is supposed to take away the first cut either does not move at all, or couples to them but stays there.
    • Berta Coal Loading. Reported by other players: hoppers don't trigger the tipple and no loading takes place.
    (cont...)
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  2. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    2) Major flaws:

    A) Significant playability flaws
    • SD40 headlight. While headlights on US trains generally are much too weak, as Matt has talked about, that on the SD40 is singularly useless. It doesn't just not illuminate tunnel walls (the F7's does), it illuminates nothing at all beyond it own front handrail. One might as well have the conductor stand on the front porch with a lit match. What this means in gameplay terms is that the very many nighttime services, other than those in the snow, become incredible tedium-fests since there is absolutely nothing to see except the gauges. The only way to tell you're in a tunnel is by the sound! I've resorted to turning on the cab light simply to have something to look at besides the abyssal void. This of course also makes HUD-less play unthinkable.
    • McClure Shifter Part 3 (Journey mode). Shunting, in pitch dark! Absolutely no light of any sort, not even the pathetic Bic lighter on the SD40, which is at the other end of the cut. All one can do is roll forward at about 2 mph and stop when something crunches. For God's sake, install some floodlights! Easier fix: change the season to Summer: then there is enough light at 4:30-5:00 in the morning to see by.
    • Unprotected and incorrectly set manual switch, Moss. After an hour of driving, with no warning of any sort, one comes around a bend and sees that a) the objective marker is on the other track, b) there is a cut of hoppers parked just ahead, and C) it's too late to stop even in full emergency. This is not on. IRL that switch (half a mile behind the disaster point) would be protected by a signal, either a Restricting or a Stop and Proceed. (Additionally, an occupied siding would have the switches turned away from it).
    • "Go Via" traps. A longstanding problem across TSW. Go Via instructions blank out the path beyond them- including any manual switches which may be incorrectly set. Which leaves the player in a mad dash, in Map mode from which the train cannot be controlled, to get the points all set correctly before the train reaches them (and often as not missing one and winding up on the wrong track anyway). Why should Go Vias blank out the further pathing? Why are they even necessary, given that the path is plainly marked in blue?
    B) Significant aesthetic/modeling flaws
    • [SD40 number plates: The switches modeled as Front/Back instead turn on the number plates left side/right side. And turn on all left/right number plates of any connected SD40s.] UPDATE: fixed in the 4/21 patch.
    • SD40 MU lighting doesn't work correctly. However one sets the light control switches in the cabs, the headlight on the rear loco is on bright at all times, unless one selects "dim front/back" (which is useless). It can only be turned off by pulling the headlight fuse (incorrectly labeled HOLT not HDLT). In fact, the SD40 has no headlight on/off switch; or rather, it's represented visually, but it's non-interactable (it's on the control stand immediately above the selector knob)
    • Magic disappearing horns. Both locos, same old bug as in Sand Patch. After a while, trying to blow the horn results in nothing
    • Journey Chapter 2. The other chapters are brilliant; this one is the opposite. The same thing over and over again- and, worse yet, the majority are at night. Why build a beautiful route and then not let the player see any of it?
    • Livery Designer. On the F7, the number plates are blacked out in custom liveries. However they are not paintable in LD either. This is just wrong. US diesels simply don't look right without number plates. (on the other hand, they are paintable on the SD40, for the first time ever in TSW. This is a step forward- although, sadly, when you turn the light on it washes out the number)
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    3) Just really annoying
    • Stop objectives. Hardly a new problem, but one would have hoped that after four years DTG would have sorted this. Stop objectives (very unrealistically) only register after one has passed them. It is incredibly annoying to have managed one's braking curve to a perfect landing- only to have the speedo hit 0.0 3 yards short and find it didn't even count, and that one has to go through the charade of releasing brakes, revving the engine and creeping forward a few feet just to clear the objective. It's positively lethal when, as so often, the marker is placed smack in front of a red signal: basically a SPAD trap. These markers need to be reprogrammed (game-wide) to register a stop within X yards/meters in either direction.
    • No people. I don't think I've seen an NPC anywhere, other than in a train cab. Has the Rapture happened and all those God-fearing Primitive Baptists been taken away?
    • No whistle posts. Even though the TS version of the route has them. I guess CRR management didn't care about running people over? Oh, wait, there are no people......
    • Control-F10 screenshot function often doesn't work in CRR
    • F7 brake handle. No detent (keypress delay) between Service and Emergency - even though there is a positive stop on the real one, for the obvious reason. Waaaay too easy to go to emergency by accident. Also, no highly useful "move to lap" key map as on the Class 101.
    • PCS valve opens on coupling. Also happens in SPG and PC. Should not happen; consequence of the abstraction of the (manual) hookup of the air hoses. Somnetimes occurs when setting the cut-out valve as well.
    • Bad signal. 1 mile south of Elkhorn, northbound (last signal before the yard). According to the HUD and the game engine it is a yellow Approach, but onscreen shows a red Stop aspect. Plainly incorrect, as one can blow by it with no SPAD.
    • Restricting aspects are bugged. They should be there, but aren't; instead the game simply drops unsigned 15 mph speed limits on you.
    • Missing speed boards. Unsigned speed limit changes. This is not a case like NTP where the speed boards are there but effectively invisible; here they aren't there at all.
    • Weather/season continuity. Journey Chapt. 4 (Greenbrier Turn). You do Part 1, hooking up to your consist in the snow. Then you start Part 2 and.... green trees! grass! suddenly the snow has vanished! While this weirdness can be avoided by using "Return to Free Roam," this method shifts you to Timetable mode and you don't get the Journey box ticked.
    • Self-locking couplers. A random bug observed on both hoppers and the caboose: after unlocking the coupler, 3-5 seconds or so later it changes back to locked again. Made part of Greenbiar Part 7 very frustrating
    • F7: No throttle-position indicator in the HUD when in dynamic braking mode
    • Custom repaint spawns: Livery Designer freight cars simply do not spawn, at all. Every car in every consist uses game-default paint, without exception. OTOH, while it's nice to see your own work pop up on the railroad, the spawn rates for locomotives are excessive- as in 80%. Having done a black F7 and a gray SD40, now nearly all the F7s are black and nearly all the SD40s are gray!
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
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  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    4) Trivia parade
    • SD40 "Sand" light. Doesn't illuminate when Lead Sand is engaged. Train sander makes no noise.
    • SD40 class lights. Nonfunctional.
    • F7 class lights. Only have white aspect, not green or red [EDIT: I have since learned that on the F7, green and red came from installing colored lenses over the lights; so no real bug here]
    • SD40 Alerter: no switch or fuse. Keyboard shortcut works, but of course hurts immersion (yes, I know a switchable safety system is a fiction, but it's implemented on almost every other TSW loco anyway)
    • F7 rear horn cord. But no rear horn. Also, partially obstructs the speedometer.
    • F7 headlight: cuts out for no reason, or will not turn on at all without alternating Bright and Dim a few times.
    • Fremont Ascent and Descent: Incorrect instruction. Tells the player to put the selector lever in 4, not 1. Has no actual effect on gameplay, but wrong.
    • Limited Power: the selection screen map for this scenario has it starting at Blue Diamond and going to Allen Storage, which is backwards.
    • SD40 platform lights. Nonfunctional. Interactable switch, no effect.
    • Trailing F-unit bell: starts ringing on its own on occasion.
    • SD40 bell: clapper animation moves once and freezes
    • F7 ammeter: incorrectly modeled, or at least does not match the one pictured in the EMD F7 Manual. Should have transition points indicated.
    • Ugly road intersection/level crossing. At Dante Union Baptist Church. Seems to outrage some people.
    • SD40 engine sound cuts out after using external cameras
    • Bizarre tree color change. In late winter/early spring, white 2D trees change to green 3D trees on approach. Of course, the trees should never have been white in the first place
    • Service times. In CRR DTG have stopped including a very useful aspect of some earlier routes: service descriptions included an estimated time to complete. Often when choosing something to run, I' really want to know whether it will fit into my hour of free time or not.
    • Smoke: sometimes trailing F-units don't produce any, just the lead loco.
    • SD40 window sunshade: doesn't move. Odd since the EMDs in Sand Patch work fine.
    • Calendar dates: often read 2021 rather than in-period.
    • PTT button: pushing the PTT button on the radio in and out twice sets the reverser to neutral and the throttle to off.
    • Restoring from save: Instrument lights (F7), number boards (SD40) and cab lights (both locos) are turned off.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  5. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    can you add the fact that the safety systems breaker on the SD40 doesn't exist but the safety system does? I've looked everywhere but the only thing I can find to turn it on is the "enable warn device" on my raildriver.
    also add that the sand button makes no noise only the lead sand (on both locos)
     
  6. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Ctrl F10 works on CRR for me
     
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  7. L89

    L89 Well-Known Member

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    Adjusting the weight of service 3016 could help get the traction needed rather than crawl at under 1mph for a long time.
     
  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Updated.
     
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  9. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    they work for me. however, the SD40's sun blind doesn't move but it's programmed to it even makes the noise.
    also the throttle for the SD40 when uising a raildriver is VERY VERY broken. can only set it to 3,6, and 8
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2021
  10. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    -The F7 headlight not working from time to time and needing the good old turning off and on of the headlights.
    -The missing foliage on a couple of tiles.
    -SD40 engine sound disappearing once you 2-/3 cam to the end of the train and back.

    It's a fine route, but the bug list is definitely chunky. Great idea to have it all in one spot.
     
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  11. fizpix

    fizpix Well-Known Member

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    I have found a way around that run to the back and put the handbrake at max
     
  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Done.
     
  13. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    weird thing I hit the 2 key to go to the back and then the 1 key and everything was fine
     
  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    More updates
     
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  15. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    If I made a map with all the whistle posts on it would anyone use it?
     
  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's a nice idea, but I don't think I would be clicking between windows while I drive.
     
  17. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    A few more nits picked
     
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  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    There is actually an explanation for this, or at least some of it: apparently since the CRR main line was 30 mph (other than one 25 section), they didn't see a need to put speedboards up when entering it from a branch line. But that still doesn't explain the Divinely Proclaimed 15s, which are either missing boards or missing/nonfunctional Restricting signals.
     
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  19. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    No animations on couplers or their unlocking bars, they don't move.
     
  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I haven't had that problem; they move fine (and sometimes on their own when I don't want them to!)
     
  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I am becoming more and more persuaded that the signal/speed limit/ pathing system is simply messed up.

    Here's one example: the crossover near Allen siding (N/B). The HUD drops a 15 mph speed limit on you: but for no apparent in-world reason. The signal protecting it shows a proceed clear (green over red), and there is no speed board. Now, it may be that the points of the crossover themselves are limited to 15, but in that case you would have either a signal showing a proceed slow (red over green, slow through switches and turnouts, then resume line speed) or a 15mph speed limit sign followed by a 30 on the far side of the crossover.

    Another one: the passing loop around milepost 15, south of Berta. Here I had a meeting with a southbound, and so I was routed into the right-hand or eastern track with an Approach signal, correctly (CRR's operating manual, helpfully found by Blacknred81, says that on the main line S/B trains of the same class always have priority). But, again, there was the 15mph speed limit, undeclared by anything. Not even a Restricting, which one might use to control the stop, even though the lower head (red and white aspects possible) is right there, presumably for that reason.

    Move on to the passing loop about 3 miles south of Elkhorn. No other train this time, but again I was routed right, onto the "siding," and once again 15mph without signage and a Proceed Clear aspect. Now, I can't imagine CRR designated all its passing sidings to be 15mph throughout- no RR would have its trains slowed to a crawl for a mile and a half plus train length unnecessarily, and the CRR manual says nothing of the sort - and there is no engineering or safety reason to impose such a limit on the entire long, long, long siding. At most it would be a safety restriction over the points (although 15 mph points on a main line are more a British thing). All I can think is that the route-builders laid the siding track with an attached 15mph limit, rather than build them with a 30 and add the appropriate signal procedures (again, if the points really are a slowdown, then Proceed Slow). But to that add the pathing AI which simply sends all trains right even if there is no meeting situation, when the main line would mean proper straight through operation at line speed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
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  22. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps a more involved patch, but preferable imho: Add extra power on trains when weather is adverse. You could control the amount of extra power by the wetness-scaler or (more easily implemented) as a fixed addition in weather themes that have wet/icy tracks. IRL you wouldn't dispatch a train that you knew couldn't make it up the hill.

    SD40 has 366 kN (easier to calculate in metric) tractive effort at 11 mph (requiring 22% adhesion/coefficient of friction). When tracks are wet or icy the adhesion will drop to around 10-12% and so the available traction will only be 500-600 kN for 3 locomotives. A 4500 tonne train on a 1.6% grade needs about 700 kN so you're in trouble, although perhaps with sanding you'd make it.

    Adding a fourth locomotive would solve the problem in either case, since you'd have 750-900 kN of tractive effort at 11mph and might even get up to 20-25mph since you'd limited by the available power.

    EDIT: I just tried the service in winter blizzard weather. God what a mess. The locomotive keeps limiting power to 500 amps even though there is no wheel slip (yet). I know some newer locomotives have wheel slip sensing and will limit the power (sometimes quite aggressively to engineers dismay) but do/did the SD40's have this feature? Also even with sand and lead axle sand I'm getting ridiculously low adhesion, must be some blizzard.

    When the train stalled out and started rolling backwards the HUD read orange as if the dynamic brakes were on, LOL. Another thing that feels strange is that all the CRR SD40 train seem to start with the air brakes completely uncharged, yet without any handbrakes applied and the independent brake is completely unfunctional. Not sure if this is realistic (w.r.t the indys) but it seems like a recipe for disaster.

    I'm not too familiar with the signaling on CRR but wouldn't a diverging route always have a diverging clear/diverging approach signal?
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2021
  23. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's correct. The motors are rotating backwards against the field, which pretty much is what dynamic braking is. The ammeter is registering negative amps
     
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  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's route signaling, which apparently CRR and certainly its related RR (Seaboard, CSX) never used. It's more a Western US thing.
     
  25. phildenty

    phildenty Member

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    Anyone else having problems with First Greenbriar Turn - Part 7 - Delane to Dante via Caney in the Journeys?.... After dropping off the brake car (the red carriage) and dropping off the coal trucks....you drive up the track but there's a red light and an oncoming train so you and the other can't move. Is it me doing something wrong?
     
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  26. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You just have to wait a good long time for the line to clear. The joys of single-track railroading.
     
  27. Wintermute89

    Wintermute89 Member

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    I had the same issue. See my attached screenshots. I blocked the double-track section with my caboose and my own train. After dropping off the empties I got a red light, prohibiting me from clearing the other track. The incoming train from Dante got green lights all the way until it was facing me. Naturally both of us were stuck now.

    I had to restart and managed to finish the service by being alot faster the second time. I managed to clear Caney (?) before the other train arrived and waited at another two-track section where we were able to pass each other. The issue seems to be with the dispatcher, giving the incoming AI train a clear route even though I was blocking both tracks. Instead of holding it back the train got routed forward and thus no free track was available for the both of us.
     

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  28. postie#3574

    postie#3574 New Member

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    Rear horn pull cord gets in way of speedometer in certain aspects. annoying if playing without HUD
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  29. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Your problem is that you pulled forward ahead of the red stop board, relying on the signal only. That placed you practically on top of the switch, making it impossible for the passing train to use the track to your right.

    Those red boards can be hard to see, but they're placed where they are for a reason.
     
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  30. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Is that train bound to Moss? I haven't looked into it, but I guess it would make sense that it needs to access the Freemont Branchline.
     
  31. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's entirely possible that DTG have never implemented a US equivalent to the routine which makes PZB functional; in other words, the lights simply don't have any effect on speed limits whatsoever. If so, this is an oversight which desperately needs correction. US speed-signaling systems are just as comprehensive as PZB, except they don't shoot your train if you make a mistake.
     
  32. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    just found this one: pushing the PTT button on the radio in and out twice sets the reverser to neutral and the throttle to off. every time. in fact the first time it happened the throttle didn't go to 0 so the reverser was in neutral and the throttle in 5. surprised that didn't crash the game because I'm pretty sure that confused simugraph or whatever handles the controls pretty good.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2021
  33. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Bizarre. Is that supposed to be the "banking comms?"
     
  34. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Can confirm that waiting at the red block does not help clear the northbound train for the scenerio First Greenbriar Turn - Part 7 - Delane to Dante via Caney, since its a northbound empty to Elkhorn City.
    18f43247-2134-4197-97ea-4690b3ff29a4.jpg
     
  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's peculiar: I had no issues with it.
     
  36. Wintermute89

    Wintermute89 Member

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    Thanks for pointing me towards the red stop boards. I did a quick check and there is indeed one I have missed (should be in the tutorials or guide...) but I actually stopped behind the switch and the incoming train still didn´t get a green signal towards the branch. I only pulled up to get a better view of the opposing trains.

    Maybe you can add missing documentation to your list, since the tutorial doesn´t cover as much as it should and a proper manual would greatly help?
     
  37. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Just want to safe you some work. You can find the track charts for Clinchfield online. All the level crossings (amongst other things) are marked on there. So I printed out the charts and use them to learn the route.
     
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  38. Jpantera

    Jpantera Active Member

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    Its the same issue I had, I am certain the dispatcher is struggling with the route at times. I have tried it again and got a run to Dante with my train.
     
  39. phildenty

    phildenty Member

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    Thanks very much for your advice sorted it now
     
  40. raretrack

    raretrack Active Member

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    One for SD40 trivia? Rain never hits the swept area of the windscreen (but does on the rest).
     
  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Thinking about this- are we talking about the radio in the lead loco? And is there a helper pair at the back? I am wondering if the PTT button somehow "coordinates" reverser and throttle settings between cabs, as if it were at least intended to be part of the DP system.
     
  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That could work, provided the train isn't already going too fast (a handbrake is really pretty weak, only enough to hold a stationary train in place). For me, anyway, faster to turn on the cab light with the L key, set the MU2A and go to full independent brake.
     
  43. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    So ran the First Greenbriar Turn - Part 7 - Delane to Dante via Caney run again. This time I will be able to complete it as I was able to move into the siding south of where you drop the coal cars.

    This scenario is more of a timed scenario for the 1st half, where you have to do your setout and reattach your caboose before the Northbound Empties train gets close enough to screw up the dispatching of the signals. Meaning you cant take this scenario slow for the 1st part.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
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  44. CrazyDash

    CrazyDash Well-Known Member

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    (Referring to all issues you listed in all categories) You really ticked the boxes for most of the issues I have with Clinchfield. Hopefully a bunch of this stuff gets fixed whenever Clinchfield begins to get fixes. It's a great route, but lots needs to be fixed
     
  45. raretrack

    raretrack Active Member

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    Another couple of snow issues with the SD40. I drove in the snow the other day (the night-time southbound one in chapter 2 that doesn't make you go slow!).

    I had the windows open (for the sound). This places the window pane behind an external panel so it's protected from the weather, but snow was still landing on it!

    I then noticed that when i changed to an external view and back to cab view, all the snow disappears from every window (including the 'protected' window).

    (MInd you that second bug - if bug it is - helped me out. Because I had the heating off and windows open my wipers stopped working. Frozen up, presumably. But to clear the windows of snow when I couldn't see out any more, all I had to do was a quick 2-1 or 3-1 on the keyboard. Magic :D)
     
  46. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    there was no helper pair, I was doing the "fremont accent" scenario
     
  47. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    the snow and rain dissapears on the SPG trains too. IDK about other trains...
     
  48. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I would imagine that's a core thing, and it has to do with trying to save a bit of memory- some variable called "windshield snow accumulation" or something, which is constantly being recalculated as snow hits the window and as the wiper blade passes over, is dropped when one goes to an external camera because it isn't needed. Then when the view goes back to 1, it has reset and starts over from 0.
     
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  49. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    In the thread about CRR boxcars possibly having a negative effect on performance, Matt called these sleeper features. They‘re put to sleep when you (or the camera) are too far away as they can‘t be seen anyhow. So your explanation is correct.
     
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  50. phildenty

    phildenty Member

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    Thanks for you great reply I have now sorted it....cheers again
     
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