Coach And Wagon Variety

Hi all, for this post I'd like to raise a few points around the amount and variety of non powered rolling stock items in game. DTG has a long trend of keeping the amount of different coaches to a minimum, which has a few good reasons, yet I'd still like to argue that a few more coach types and a bit more attention to what is actually behind a locomotive could be needed.

First of all, I'd like to explain the general trend I observe in TSW when it comes to non-powered rolling stock. When TSW was still a new product a lot of releases also introduces new rolling stock. That's of course logical, because a solid library of coaches had to be built up. However, it's the variety of these coaches that began to lack quickly in my eyes. The Dosto's initially only had a second class and a second/first composite cab car, which sufficed for RSN. However, it is a shame that the variety never really got expanded upon, except for a second/first composite. Even though there were chances for it, like Hamburg-Lübeck, high door variants never saw the light of day. Slightly new liveries came available with DRA, but in essence the coaches are all still low door Dosto's from the same batch. The next time new passenger coaches got made for Germany it was the Intercity coaches. However, these again were just two types. First class compartments, and second class open. The lack of a cab car and first/dining composite dissapointed many, just like with the lack of high door Dosto's. DTG seemed to kind of notice a demand for more varied coaching stock, respoding with the n-Wagen. However, although I love the addition of n-Wagen, they didn't add a first class n-Wagen, even though this would have been present in all consists in real life.

As for the UK, the release of Spirit of Steam seemed to follow the same pattern. Even though some more options of MK1 coaches were added, a restaurant coach was missing, even though it was highly demanded. In addition to that, the coaches and variety of them that were available went underutilised. Only one livery type was visible in timetable mode, and weirdly the baggage coach is only visible as a static item at Crewe.

Now, of course there is some understandable reasoning going on here, or at least I suspect so. Coaches require a lot of effort to model (and because high door dostos, IC cab cars and bistro coaches all are quite different from the others, would require ground up modelling and physics work), and there is less interest in them than in the loco's that pull them in the general community. However, I would be curious to see how valid that statement actually is, and would love to hear where the importance of coaches and their variety stands for you. There is also a large section of the railfanning community that interests them for coaches and wagons very strongly, which I would also consider myself part of. So maybe DTG slightly misjudged the interest and appreciation there would be for some more coach variety.

A second reason could be the memory implications of course. This is not a negligable point, as each new coach type on a timetable loads the memory even more, and with may routes already being near the edge, adding in too much coach types could have major implications. However, each coach of an EMU (like the memory heavy ICE3 for example) also loads the memory in much the same way a loco hauled train with a larger variety of coaches does, so maybe there are some considerations to be made there.

Then there is another point, mostly relating to freight wagons. There is quite a collection of them in game new, but this goes underutilised, especially for Germany. Wagons like the Falns that came with the BR 155 or the cement wagon from the BR 363 never saw use outside their home routes. It would be great to see these wagons used on more routes, adding unique services and variety to many more routes. UK routes seem to slowly improve on this point, with recent timetables and timetable updates seeing a larger use of available rolling stock (like the DB Schenker hoppers on SEHS, the cement wagon service on GWE, etc.). Hopefully a bit more attention is also shifted to using what is available in this front.

Overall, I'd like this post to illustrate that there have been some missed oppertunities when it comes to variety in what is behind the locomotive. I'd also like to give people a chance to let DTG know wheter they find this variety important or not. Personally, as I mentioned before, I do find this important. I greatly enjoy in seeing different coaches in real life, and learning something about their history and use. They are the parts that a passenger interacts with most after all. I also know there is a large group of people that strongly interest themselves in freight wagons and there types, and even though I am not massively knowledgeable on them, I very much understand that there is an interest in them. The question of how important non-powered rolling stock is could also help answer if there is a desire for rolling stock expansion packs. Perhaps there is a business case to be made for freight wagon or passenger coach packs that do not come with a loco, or perhaps there isn't.

 

As someone regularly on my soapbox about the need for Mark One coaches (did someone mention buffet, restaurant, kitchen and sleeping cars) I voted for Option 2. Also UIC stock for the German and Swiss routes along with some original Silberlinge for Germany.

 

Maybe it would be a good idea for Dtg to start developing coach/wagon packs.

I think they already have a code for them like they do with there route, loco and gameplay addons.

 

I voted option 3. What’s behind me is important to a degree but what I’m driving is most important.

 

I don’t so much care about what’s behind me. My style of play stays in the cab rather than flying around it, so I’m unlikely to see it. But I do care about what I see the AI pulling around.

It would be great to have more variety of locomotives and wagons/ coaches. It’s one of the reasons I keep going back to TSC.

 

The main thing that annoys me with rolling stock is the tail lamps or end of train markers.
Sometimes they are not present or sometimes they are completely inappropriate like with the class 66 pulling cement wagons with a paraffin oil lamp on GWE.

Don't get me started on spirit of steam. The mk1's have two lamps for some reason and the brake van lights are always incorrect.

 

I would also like to see greater availability of existing wagons on other routes, especially in Germany. The Roos-T-645 doesn't (IIRC) appear on MSB, despite there boing a number of sidings with logas waiting for collection!. Also what happened to the CSX coil car and the trash container wagons that were in TSW2? they managed to port the other CSX stuff across, what was so difficult about these items that they can't be used in TSW3? The glaring absence of the DB Eanos type gondolas really needs sorting, they are seen all over the place...

 

I vote for option 2. While I do not pay too much attention to the carriages/wagons I'm pulling, variety in carriages/wagons is important because it adds variety in the AI trains and in yards/sidings.

 

The coil and trash car never came to tsw2. The route and gp40-2 dlc couldn't be ported over because of the way it was built which was different from other dlcs at that time. That meant it required a complete rebuild from scratch to make it work with tsw2 which couldn't be done since they had to make everything work in a short timeframe because the community demanded it

 

I think a variety of coaches is indeed very important! I was kinda disappointed to have both the modern and the classic IC coaches without the dining car. Especially back in the 90s there was hardly any long distance train without dining car. And sure, the IC cab car is desperately needed, but that's another story.

Also the first class of the n-Wagen is needed ingame. Maybe it's a possibility for a future DLC (loco + n-Wagen first class + n-Wagen second class + Wittenberger Steuerwagen) and very much needed. I really enjoy when a train drives by and has a fancy, kinda unusual, but at least variable consist. Seeing the ECS move on BRO (with the 103, Dostos, IC Coaches, n-Wagne) is such a delight.

If the coaches were really that unimportant, why did we all say "oh no, please not another time Dostos"? Because the rolling stock does indeed matter. For me, it's not the same if my 182 hauls an IC, an ECS or a freight train. And I enjoy my IC even more, if i know that i can go to the dining car to get a coffee.

 

I understand that the route couldn't be ported over, that's not the problem. The rolling stock did sub in on Sand Patch, which should make it possible to port it across, or, alternatively release it as a separate pack, the base models should exist..

 

Even with a base model, would have still required a lot of time to rebuild it because it's not just a model. It's physics and sounds too that required to be rebuilt from scratch so couldn't be ported. A loco dlc would be great to have but until it gets added to the roadmap if ever, not gonna happen

 

I voted option 2, for me is as important and just as interesting. The lack of different vehicle types on the older routes is glaring. For NTP I am sure the Scarborough services were often formed of mark 1 stock. There would have been ex LMS Stanier coaches on SOS and NTP, certainly not just rakes of mark 1's and as said there are only a limited amount of those available.

 

Option 2 because it needs to make route real as possible

 

I also don’t think we have any First Class Mark Two’s either FO/FK or BFK. Would become quite necessary if we got a route like Salisbury to Exeter in the classic period as even the 33’s were largely hauling Mark 2 consists by then. Goes without saying we also need some Mark Two “coffins”, i.e. air conditioned D, E or F variants.

 

Another example of coaches being neglected, the Jubilee Railtour dlc comes with 1950s spec mk1s, even though it's set in the 90s/Modern day. Thats 40 YEARS out of date

 

In my opinion coaches and wagons sometimes determines if I buy a route. As usually I want to know if the coaches would allow me to roleplay when I'm playing on a route or they would allow me to properly enjoy a route. Without being barred from sitting in the seats of mk2as.

 

The loco is more important, in my opinion. It’s what you’re driving and the only part of the train you see most of the time (unless you’re using the cinematic camera). But wagons are still reasonably important, of course.

 

A train isn’t a train without its haul, so coaching & wagons is just as important as the loco.

 

I voted for just as important. If I fancy driving a class 47 in intercity livery (for example) thanks to livery editor I can choose it. But the carriages are stuck on BR blue/grey unless I create a scenario. It would be nice if we had a choice of liveries for the carriages as well

 

The lack of the full range of DB IC coach types* spoils the immersion for me, and it's a huge frustration that there doesn't seem to be any plans to change this. We need more developers, particularly for rolling stock, because if DTG decide to omit stuff, we're stuck with it.

* Even just a driving trailer and a restaurant would be something, but for the most immersive sim out there the aim should be all types: Avmz, Apmz, Bvmsz, Bpmbz, Bpmbz etc

 

Well, it is a railtour!

 

2. At some point it would be nice if Amtrak's East Coast Long Distance equipment would come to make those trains more prototypical vs a string of Amfleets alone.

Also US freight needs a good mix of freight cars to look more correct. Clinchfield's manifests look a bit silly being only 1 boxcar of 1 color and 1 reefer with no flats, hoppers, or tankers mixed in.

 

The Amfleets would layer into some of the freight only routes too I think?

 

Only route that Amfleets would appear on are the Horseshoe Curve for the Pennsylvanian, every other route needs Superliners, which don't run on the NEC due to clearance reasons.

East Coast equipment is the Viewliner cars and would currently only appear on NYC-Trenton and Boston Providence