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Cold Starting Engines In Cumberland?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by voltajtepes#7278, Feb 9, 2021.

  1. voltajtepes#7278

    voltajtepes#7278 Member

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    I had a scenario where I simply could not finish because the train would never make it up the hill. It was one of the early timetable scenarios, Q249 I think. A large array of cars pulled by two little engines.. in winter.. in a blizzard lol..
    So anyway, I had the idea of (after spawning in) to run over and steal two other engines so I can hook them up and run in tandem, to help me get up the hill.
    So I walk over to one.. follow the startup procedure. Engine won't start.. next one.. same.. I follow the tutorials, which are fairly simple, but when I prime I hear it humming, then when I switch to start, sometimes it does nothing, other times it starts to crank up... then dies off. I've checked all of the fuses. Weird thing is there is smoke coming out of the exhaust. The same amount when the engine is running.
    So then I hear a couple engines running, so I wander over there.. two engines.. but.. the sound is like some background engine running sound. It's near these two engines but not coming from them (hard to explain) but same problem. They are dead, can't start them.
    Is there something in the game that disables all of the other engines in the yard such that I can't even get any assistance? Am I doing something wrong?
    I've done a cold startup in the past. I can't remember which tutorial it was, but it worked fine then.
     
  2. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you are doing anything wrong. Have you tried sitting down in the engines you want to start? As long as you don't do this, they use a simplified physics model for performance reasons. The downside of sitting down however is, that you will be asked to give up control of your actual train. You only get to sit down if you answer this question with yes. So maybe try spawning by foot some minutes earlier, take control of every loco individually and then go for your train. Once you started the engines I think they should use the regular physics model and you can use them.

    On another note, have you checked if you have some helper engines at the back of your consist and are they setup correctly? That is a little bit of science itself and there are some users on the forums with excellent guides on how to set them up.
     
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  3. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    I tried the Timetable Service Q249 of 0:29 twice.
    At 1st attempt I used the SD40 as lead loco, at 2nd attempt the "new" C40.
    In both the cases, with winter blizzard weather, I got stuck at about 10miles from Mance on 1.5 percent of gradient.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
  4. JZJ90

    JZJ90 Active Member

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    You do have to actually sit in the seat of the loco then jump up and go start it from outside. The reason given by Matt for this is that the loco physics aren't switched on until you have sat in the seat. There was a stream where he was having trouble starting a loco in a yard on SPG and after a few failed attempts he remembered that you have to sit in the drivers seat to activate the physics.
     
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  5. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't have any problems stealing a couple of locos around the back of the fuel stand
     
  6. voltajtepes#7278

    voltajtepes#7278 Member

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    Awesome thanks guys! I did NOT sit in the seat because I got the warning and did not want to give up control but I thought I would lose the mission then. I assume I can go back and "take it back"? or do I lose getting credit for the mission if I do this?
    Yes I checked the rear and there were no engines there. I am fairly confident in setting up the rear helper engines, as they were in the "fully fueled" scenario. Took me a few attempts but I got it.
    And thank you 7orenz for trying this scenario! I cannot get up the silly hill and I don't feel so bad if I'm not the only one. Tonight I will try to steal two engines and put them in the back and see how it goes.
     
  7. voltajtepes#7278

    voltajtepes#7278 Member

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    I just wanted to comment that while I love the game so far, and being new to the train sim community, this is all very challenging. I'm not getting any younger so sometimes I miss things. I feel like this community is friendlier than, say, a racing simulator community lol.. You all have great patience with newbies! It is appreciated!
     
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  8. voltajtepes#7278

    voltajtepes#7278 Member

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    Ok guys I tried taking another pair of locomotives and that backfired on me. Yes as soon as I pressed E to sit down, it asked me if I wanted to give up on the current mission.. I said sure, sat down, and I think the engine started winding up... so .. great..
    However...
    I suddenly heard a large train moving.. it was my original train!!!!! DOH It was driving off into the night..!!
    So I challenge anyone to try mission Q249 with the SD40 in the timetable and please let me know if you can complete it, how you did it.
    I'm thinking of repeating what I just did, hopping into the moving train (that I just gave up) and seeing if the AI makes it up the hill lol!!

    So is this considered a bug or is there a secret someone can share?

    Thanks again!
     
  9. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I would suggest starting on foot a few minutes before the service you want to run is scheduled to leave. Set up the units you want to attach in the yard and couple them to the service, re enter the cab of the original service and I believe you are all set.
     
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  10. voltajtepes#7278

    voltajtepes#7278 Member

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    I don't understand what you mean "starting on foot". If I want to run the timetable scenario Q249, which is the first scheduled run in the timetable from Cumberland to Rockwood, how do I start on foot?
    I tried it again tonight and this time it wasn't snowing, so I thought "Oh great maybe I'll do it" lol.. I actually almost got to Sand Patch this time, just a mile away and I started spinning... could not make it.. slid back down.. after another 2-3 hours at 10 mph barely making it up the hill.
    Can anyone tell me how to finish this scenario? If not, then it seems like a bug to me.
    Sorry but this is very frustrating.. Please let me know what I'm doing wrong.
    Anyone who wants to run this and post their video I would be happy to be shamed lol... I have no idea how to make it up the hill with two engines.
     
  11. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    He mean this

    Train Sim World 2® 2021-02-10 04-23-03.png

    Train Sim World 2® 2021-02-10 04-23-59.png

    Service Q249 is scheduled at 0:25, so you start on foot at 0:10 or 0:15, just in time for pick up 2 additional locos and built your DMU train.

    Note:
    Even if the services are not meant to build the trains, it will therefore be difficult to find a free path to bring the 2 (stolen) locomotives on the same track as the Q249 train. Because you will usually find the red signals and the system does not allow you to bypass them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
  12. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    However, they may have an issue getting them to the train, as the signals wont allow the train to enter an occupied track, since the service starts on the mainline.
     
  13. Reventloff

    Reventloff Well-Known Member

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    Hello, gentlemen!

    This one is tough indeed. I can confirm that it cannot be completed with default set up at all.
    I played it today with summer dry weather and while I was able to run as far as Mance, the long grade of 1.9% after that still stopped the train dead.

    I would not say that this is a technical bug here, but the set up of the consist for this particular service is wrong for sure. I believe 2xSD40 are too underpowered for the run. We have consist of 4.7k tonnes and 2x3,000hp locos here, which gives 1.3x horsepower to tonnage ratio. And as a general rule of thumb the ratio of 1.0x-1.5x is considered to be enough for a freight train, but this ratio just does not take into account the significant gradients of sand patch!

    So to complete this service you will have to cheat! :D Either find and bring additional helper locos (which is quite a challenge in itself) OR uncouple some of the cars from the consist. I did the latter (uncoupled 10 cars to bring the horsepower to weight ratio of my train to around 1.5x) and was able to complete it successfully (at summer dry weather!). Beware though, it took 2 hours 40 minutes for the whole run… And you will get “Unexpected Vehicle Formation” message every time you pass the mission marker, but it has no impact on final score or ability to finish the service. I even got gold medal in the end, which is ridicoulus!!

    1 initial consist.jpg 2 modified consist.jpg 3 strange red signal.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2021
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  14. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    It can be completed. I did it in summer, dry with 2x AC4400CWs. It‘s probably not doable with 2x SD40-2s however. I tried it with 1x C40-8W and 1x SD40-2 in winter, clear and got stuck long before the 1.9% part. Is it possible that this train is supposed to have helpers but they were never added to the timetable? All the other trains of this size have helpers if I recall correctly.

    Edit: spelling
     
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  15. Reventloff

    Reventloff Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, I stand corrected! You are right of course - 4400s should be okay here! I was referring to SD40-2 service only.
    Absolutely agree, they should modify the set up of this service for weaker locos (C40, SD40) - add helpers or reduce the consist for them.
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I did it with 2x4400s with no problem. Not only does the 4400 have half again as much raw horsepower than the SD40, but it's 3-phase AC, meaning more effective traction.
     
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  17. voltajtepes#7278

    voltajtepes#7278 Member

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    Thank you everyone! I didn't see these responses before posting another message asking anyone to run this and record it lol.. Sorry!
    I like the trick of disconnecting a bunch of cars as long as I don't get a failure. Once moving I won't notice a drop of 10,20, heck 30 cars lol.. so I will try this.
    Yes I figured the 4400 would probably do it.. but I really love the "little" guys lol.. they are more simple, no digital interface.. They give me the most satisfaction.
    With all of that said, if a scenario exists that cannot be completed in any way (GP38 pulling this set of cars) that is a bug, I'm sorry!
    Someone on Steam said these were imported from the old game and they did not have physics in the old game so that's why it no longer works. Is that possible? That would be crazy!
     
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  18. voltajtepes#7278

    voltajtepes#7278 Member

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    Does this mean that I can complete the Time Table scenarios by choosing different engines each time? What I mean is.. I thought that there were a complete set of time table missions for each of the three engines.. Did I misunderstand that?
    Really I want to try and complete the entire "Time Table" thing .. in a day ..well.. maybe not in a real day lol.. but you know..I wanted to do it all in the GP38 but I guess I can switch back and forth if I get the same reward or completions.
     
  19. voltajtepes#7278

    voltajtepes#7278 Member

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    This is like my favorite response of the year. Why didn't I think of this! You, sir, are awesome!
     
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  20. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Some timetable scenarios are usable with multiple locomotives that are available for Sand Patch Grade, as well with the DLC GE C40-8W.
    There are a total of 75 services for SPG.

    The AC4400CW has 57 total services.
    The C40-8W has 48 total services.
    The SD40-2 in YN3B has 54 services.
    The SD40-2 in YN2 paint has 56 services.
    The GP38-2 has 22 services.

    As you can see in the list below, there are services available for both the AC4400CW and the SD40-2, while some are only exclusive to the AC4400CW and are not available for the SD40-2.
    TS2Prototype-Win64-Shipping 2021-02-10 20-24-11-44.jpg TS2Prototype-Win64-Shipping 2021-02-10 20-24-21-07.jpg

    Also in 1 bizarre case, the K145 and K143 Oil trains are only available for the SD40-2 if its in YN2 paint. It is not runnable with any other locomotive (Even the SD40-2 in YN3b paint)
    TS2Prototype-Win64-Shipping 2021-02-10 20-32-10-43.jpg

    As far as the Q249 train is concerned, it is best you run it with only AC4400CW's as power, since the AC44 has more HP than the SD40-2's (4400 vs 3000, or 8800 vs 6000 with 2 units as in the service) So the SD40-2s are down 2800hp when compared to the AC4400CW's.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
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  21. voltajtepes#7278

    voltajtepes#7278 Member

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    wow thanks. how do you get to these lists? Where does it show which train you are looking at?
    Do I just click one of the three trains and go to timetable?
    Sorry this is confusing .. but I think I sort of understand where you're going. I basically can select an engine... and if a particular scenario shows up on the list, I can run it...
     
  22. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much when you go to select a locomotive it shows how many service are available for that locomotive at the top of the screen, then on the next screen you can choose what service you want to do.
    TS2Prototype-Win64-Shipping 2021-02-10 21-05-57-55.jpg
     
  23. voltajtepes#7278

    voltajtepes#7278 Member

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    oh man I'm stupid. I apologize as I am really new to train sims (never played them) so I jumped in on this because it was on sale and I thought what the heck.. As much as I've posted here, I do not mean to say that I do not entirely enjoy this game. I like it very much. I feel like the kid "why ? ..how does that work?/ what is that? why are you doing that? but why?" lol.
     

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