Cologne-frankfurt High Speed Line

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Swedewagon, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    "Schnellfahrstrecke Rhein-Main: Frankfurt-Köln"
     
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  2. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    When abbreviated it becomes SRM and if you own this SRM and Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg-Gemünden you should be able to operate ICE Line 41 Köln-Frankfurt-Würzberg via Aschaffenburg Heigenbrücken-Lohr the Main Spessart Bahn. If you look at Main Spessart Bahn there's a curve headed to the right between Lohr & Gemünden that's the MSB connector to Hannover Würzburg HSR.
     
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  3. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Active Member

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    1000% needs to be added to Train Sim World 2. I love the idea.
     
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  4. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing is what does DTG say about this route?
     
  5. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Yes you're right
     
  6. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Active Member

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    Excellent route suggestion.
     
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  7. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and if Dovetail Games implemented a feature where a joined route can join another DLC this one will be the perfect example because you can operate ICE Line 79 Frankfurt to Aachen Hbf and the S19 Siegburg
     
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  8. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Active Member

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    Does the DB BR 101 run InterCity services on this too or not? Just curious.
     
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  9. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Also these routes can be merged Line 41 which is Main Spessart Bahn Lohr to Aschaffenburg then SRM
    HMA Line 42 for its Augsburg Hbf to München Hbf & HRR Line 43 Bochum to Duisburg then SRM.
     
  10. truckerdave18

    truckerdave18 Member

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    No, this is a pure ICE route. Only the old and new ICE 3 and the ICE 4 are operated there. This is because of the steep gradients. It has to be ensured that in case of an engine problem the train is still able to clear the track with limited power. Some sections have a gradient of 40‰ which corresponds to approximately 2,3° or in other words: On 1000 m track, the height difference would be 40 m.
    According to Wikipedia, the SFS Köln-Rhein/Main was the steepest High Speed line on earth on its inauguration and as I believe, it is at least one of them until now.

    Furthermore, due to the high speed and very narrow curves, these curves are highly tilted. The largest value of tilt measures 17 cm. So one site of the track is 17 cm lower than the other. This is the reason why the route is locally also known as the "rollercoaster". And as you might guess, this also limits the use of other trains.

    Here is a picture (from the dpa - Deutsche Presse Agentur).

    ICE 3.jpg
     
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  11. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    180 Kilometer want amazing and looks really sexy with the curves. 49F8B631-C6A9-40D1-98C7-2FA15DAF2FB8.jpeg
     
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  12. elaineedwards2013

    elaineedwards2013 Active Member

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    Oh ok. Thanks
     
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  13. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and for this route one of the timetable Services should involve coupling HMA DB BR403 with SKA DB BR406 since ICE Line 43 Bochum to Basel is combined with ICE Line 78 Amsterdam to Basel at Duisberg Hbf HRR for the combined trip via SRM. Same thing also applies to ICE Line 79 Frankfurt Hbf to Brussels via SKA to where it leaves Frankfurt Hbf and Airport with ICE Line 78 Basel to Amsterdam CS via Oberhausen Hbf Duisberg Hbf HRR to where at Köln Hbf the combined train is separated
     
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  14. johnjohn190690

    johnjohn190690 Active Member

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    This route is the most viable extension so far for dtg. It would be an opportunity missed if they didn't. Most people own TSW2 so SKA route would already been in game for everyone who bought TSW2. I would love to have this route extension in game.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
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  15. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    There’s next version of TSW in production, so then when it’s released, SKA becomes payware DLC.
     
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  16. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    That’s one steep gradient!
     
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  17. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    What does payware DLC mean?
     
  18. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    not sure if you are joking or not but Payware is that you have to pay for a DLC or game
     
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  19. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    Not included in core game. In next version, there will be three other routes included instead of SKA, LU and SPG.
     
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  20. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    So like TSW2020 with the routes that got added?
     
  21. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    You do realise that SKA LU and SPG will still be with the game and always will be in the TSW2 generation
     
  22. da.virus

    da.virus Member

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    I can't put it in words how much I would love and appreciate this route:love:
    This is by far the most exciting suggestion for me and although I initially didn't want to I just had to create an account to give this route a like <3
     
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  23. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    The good thing is, that's this route would be the first game that would have this route if it would get added, and here we would also have two airport included, S Bahn, and a very long high speed line with some stops
     
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  24. 2martens

    2martens Member

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    Plus, they could provide a livery with S-Bahn Köln.
     
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  25. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    But with the ICE 3 Velaro also, not only the recycling ICE 403/406 140A5F01-9DC7-42F0-B554-CC15085965DB.jpeg
     
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  26. da.virus

    da.virus Member

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    The first priority is that the developers decide to create this route at all. In my opinion the Velaro D and the S-Bahn and even the merge with SKA may come seperatly, especially since this particular route is kind of sophisticated and difficult to develope on its own.
     
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  27. Nei4024

    Nei4024 Active Member

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    I truly believe that this route is what TSW lacks, it has it all, high speed services that would take considerable time to travel, not like SKA or LGV. It also has RE, IC services, and cargo. It connects big cities with a lot of stations in the middle. The route is perfect, but DTG will put a problem, the distance is more than 150 km, so DTG takes too long. But we need long routes in TSW, we are already fed up with the 50 km routes that are good but we are not progressing. It's about time DTG did a decent long route and this one is perfect.
    Very good suggestion
     
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  28. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    The length is not a problem. DTG has made shorter routes for TSW so far because long routes can take too much time. In future this problem can hopefully be solved.
     
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  29. Nei4024

    Nei4024 Active Member

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    I don't care if I have to wait 3 months, 6 or 1 year, but let it come. DTG closes doors to very good routes, which people would be interested in. But yes, I hope they start doing longer routes soon.
     
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  30. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    The length doesn't matter, only the layers how many trains run on the route, computers can handle with a lot of layers, but consoles aren't that powerful then the most of the PCs, this route doesn't need as much layers because it's mostly only high speed, and then only S Bahn or some REs and RBs, but not a lot
     
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  31. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    It's great that DTG is trying to make the option to merge the routes because then this route with a connection to Aachen would be perfect
     
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  32. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I would wait too for this route to come but even shorter routes like Bakerloo took 9 months to make
     
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  33. truckerdave18

    truckerdave18 Member

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    Even if it'd take a year to make - To see that there is work on it and that the route is in development would be a joy on its own. In germany there is even a saying which goes like: Anticipation is the nicest joy. And I guess the sooner one starts the sooner one finishes? Also it is to hope that DTG learned from their last projects and expanded their capabilities so longer routes like this High Speed Line become the standard.
    Plus like others said earlier: 180 km might sound long but a High Speed Line never has to be as detailed as slower routes, Köln and Frankfurt is already modeled in one of DTGs Simulators, there are a lot of non complex tunnels/grasslands/forests on this route and last but not least a new train is also not needed since we have the right trains from SKA and HMA. Of course, still a big challenge but I am 100% sure, a very successful one.

    As I zapped through Twitch the last months, I watched to some german streamers who played TSW2. The majority of them were absolute newcomers to train simulation but they all had one thing in common. They all knew that the ICE may drive up to 300 km/h. And they knew that behind Köln there is this one strange, fascinating, stunning and rollercoaster-ish track to Frankfurt they once rode on. So they asked: "Can I drive there?". And I had to tell them: No. "Is there a DLC for it?" Again: No... well there is HMA but it's even slower. They got disappointed and began to race the ICE on SKA until they crashed.
    That showed me that there are probably a a lot of people who actually would be interested in train simulation since they first tried to do it right. But you can't convince them with 70 km straight and flat track and 250 km/h when you give them an ICE. The people expect something else if they see an ICE. And that is what makes me also a bit sad: If potentially new train enthusiasts give up because their expectations got not quite fulfilled.
    It is a couple of years ago but I once traveled with a friend on this route in the Lounge of the ICE 3 where you can look directly at the tracks. And although this friend was completely uninterested in everything what does with trains and bored of what I told him at the beginning, at the end he had to admit that this ride got him very excited.

    I hope it got clear what I wanted to tell with this. This route would also be a big reason for new players to try the Simulator and let themselves get interested in more. And for fans of High Speed this would be a no brainer anyway. Because if one thinks of german High Speed routes, this is the one, which comes into mind. This route is an exciting, thrilling and adventurous experience which absolutely needs to be experienceable in a simulator.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
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  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it will come in the future and can be attached to ska since in theroy, no new trains would have to be added except for a DB S-Bahn Koln DB BR 423. I would be happy as well if this route was in development
     
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  35. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you on that one and if DTG does make this route then they can do Schnellfahrstrecke Leipzig Erfurt at 123 km another route to Max out DB BR403 from HMA on ICE Line 28/29
     
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  36. truckerdave18

    truckerdave18 Member

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    I really hope it will come out in the future. And the merge with SKA would be the best, although I don't want to ask for too much because I'm afraid the project gets rejected then.

    I am generally a huge fan of High Speed Railways all over the world. The route between Köln and Frankfurt is in my eyes just the by far most interesting German one. But of course I would love to see more. Leipzig-Erfurt? Awesome!
     
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  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, everyone has their own preferences. For my part, I find ICEs mildly amusing but rather dull, something to do late at night when I don't feel like working. Wait for LZB to kick in, watch the scenery whoosh by in a straight line. For me, not very interesting.

    If DTG wanted to connect Cologne and Frankfurt, I would MUCH prefer they do the Linke Rheinstrecke via Koblenz and Mainz. Now that would be an interesting route!
     
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  38. truckerdave18

    truckerdave18 Member

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    Sure it would be a beautiful route. I live in Koblenz myself and I know how mesmerizing and breathtaking the scenery of the Rheinvalley is. And I would call the linke Rheinstrecke my second favourite German route just after the SFS Köln-Rhein/Main.

    But I don't want to compare these routes. One is a High Speed railway, the other not. The one thing they have in common: both are highly anticipated. But if there should be a new German High Speed line, it has to be this one. No other is so iconic and diversified. And I am convinced that also people who find LZB boring would enjoy this route at least inwardly.
    Still you are obviously right: everyone has their own interests. Like for me the Linke Rheinstrecke would be cool, no question, but not as fun as this High Speed Line. Besides that, we already have Köln to Frankfurt in TS2021 and also a very good freeware update for Köln-Koblenz. But the SFS is missing. And that is also somehow the point. We have the flagship of the Deutsche Bahn but no route where it can show for what it was designed: 300 km/h and action! Of course it seems "dull" driving the ICE with 250 km/h up and down from Aachen to Köln on a short, straight and even route. And for Munich-Augsburg the maximum speed is even slower. But that would drastically change with this High Speed line. It would make the ride on the ICE much more interesting and exciting.

    Maybe I can even agree to you that driving with LZB (in TSW) is not as challenging as driving without. But I never would call it dull or uninteresting. Like I said above, the route might be "dull" but LZB is for me always thrilling. The faster it goes, the more fun I have. Also there is no LZB in Cologne and Frankfurt Main Station and if one feels bored by the automation, he just switches off the AFB so he has to drive manually. Furthermore this route contains of extra stops for certain lines for example in Montabaur, Limburg Süd or Siegburg/Bonn. So it is not like "Fire and Forget". On this route you are expected to be aware of that.
    And for me as a fan of high speed I really get excited above 160 km/h. And I will always be fascinated by these high speeds, no matter how often I experienced them. And by the look of the overall reactions of this suggestion and by the sales of the comparable LGV route, it seems that I am not the only one who loves watching the scenery fly by.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
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  39. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    I agree and if you use DTG abbreviations for German routes that one is SLE while Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Frankfurt is called SRM
     
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  40. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    They sell the route for 50€ circa but it want worth it
     
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  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Koln Frankfurt isn't a straight line high speed route though. Also you dont have to have lzb on if using it isn't interesting
     
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  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't Schnellfahrstrecke Koln-Frankfurt be SKF and not SRM
     
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  43. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I think it comes from 'Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Rhein/Main', which is it's official name as far as I know. If DTG ever makes this route I have a feeling they'll call it Schnellfahstrecke Rhein-Main.
     
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  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    "Die Schnellfahrstrecke Köln–Rhein/Main ist eine 180 Kilometer lange deutsche Eisenbahn-Hochgeschwindigkeitsstrecke für den Personenfernverkehr. Sie führt von Köln über Siegburg, Montabaur, Limburg und den Frankfurter Flughafen nach Frankfurt am Main. "
     
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  45. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ohh ok
     
  46. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Correct and if you want to use the region name it's Schnellfahrstrecke Rhein-Main because Köln is on the Rhine River while Frankfurt is on the Main River like Gemünden. Full name of Frankfurt is Frankfurt Am Main to prevent confusion with the former East German City Frankfurt Am Oder.
     
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  47. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ohh I see
     
  48. sebastian.k203

    sebastian.k203 New Member

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    Absolute Wunschstrecke!
     
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  49. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Here is the latest video where an ICE is running from Frankfurt to Cologne and it only takes about 1 hour for the train
     
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  50. 2martens

    2martens Member

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    In this video the part between Limburg Süd and Montabaur is missing. The complete video of the same journey can be found here (15min longer):

     
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