Completed East Coastway - Line Extension

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Asheix, Sep 13, 2021.

  1. Asheix

    Asheix Member

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    On several live streams in the past, there has been mention of the community wanting longer routes in Train Sim World 2. Surely a good place to start with that is with the popular East Coastway? The game DLC neglects nearly half of the overall route from Eastbourne to Hastings.

    The Hastings - Eastbourne section is rather picturesque and the route goes along the sea for the most part, straight through the centre of Bexhill, past the golf course at Cooden Beach, and passes by Pevensey Castle before turning onto the stretch of track to Eastbourne.

    The fastest service of the line takes 1 hour and 19 minutes (10 minutes longer than Faversham - London St Pancras) and calls at,
    1. Hastings
    2. St Leonard's Warrior Square
    3. Bexhill
    4. Collington (part of a slower service
    5. Cooden Beach (part of a slower service)
    6. Pevensey & Westham
    7. Hampden Park
    8. Eastbourne - (where East Coastway currently begins.)
    9. Hampden Park
    10. Polegate (which is spelt incorrectly on the dot matrix boards on the platforms in-game!)
    11. Berwick
    12. Glynde
    13. Lewes
    14. Moulsecomb
    15. Brighton
    Despite this being my favourite route on the game, it has also been one of the most frustrating knowing half of the overall route is missing. I know that DTG has said they cannot put 2 DLCs together as people have asked if East Coastway and the London - Brighton line can be, but with East Coastway, surely they can go into their Dev files and extend it that way and release it as an update?

    As well as being a bit of a rant, this is a serious route extension proposal. I hope in the end, DTG does not keep releasing partial routes, and I am sure I am not the only one who is frustrated by this.
     
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  2. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Active Member

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    Be prepared for the "longer routes aren't feasible on tsw2" comments
    I hope they do make longer routes. GWE is great but pointless with the HST as it takes 15/20 mins from point A to point B
     
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  3. aaronbrall#7894

    aaronbrall#7894 Member

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    There is a difference between suggesting 20 mile route from Eastbourne to Hastings (which would make ECW 50 miles, or about the same as BML) and wanting the entire 400 mile ECML from Edinburgh to London
    Routes longer than 100km are going to become difficult, the sim uses a lot of memory and the longer the route is the more memory has to be loaded in, sure it may be fine for NASA computers but they have to optimise the game for PC and console or you have out of memory crashes and most of your playerbase can't play new routes
     
  4. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I would buy instant an extension pack of the east coast way. They could sell this with a merge of the coming brighton route.
     
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  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This isn't really true (although it is in part). Really long routes need the asset tracking loaded for the whole route, but with portals and so on this isn't too much of a problem. The route itself is loaded in in "tiles" and loaded out when not needed, so although the route would be very very many of these tiles, they aren't called to memory until they're needed
    So yes, there is a memory limitation but the bigger limit is timetable interactions. It takes time to get all the timetables into the system and to test their interactions because the dispatcher isn't dynamic enough to handle "decision making"... ie if two trains want to leave at the same time and use the same track who goes first?
     
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  6. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    An East Coastway extension would be a great thing to have, would taking it to Ore be an option as well, so all services from Brighton are in full?

    Either way, it would be good to see.
    Whilst I have a very mixed opinion of extensions as a concept, I quite like this one.

    Nice one!

    (P.S, for the people talking about route lengths, it's mostly not a technical limitation, it's (mostly) a matter of time and finance)
     
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  7. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    The Eastbourne to Hastings line would be better as part of a Marshlink line route to Ashford with the Class 171. That way you're getting more services and a different unit to drive, as well as more scenery and layering potential for the Class 375 and 395 from SEHS. The section to Ashford is unelectrified (unusual in the south east) and is mostly single track with a very rural (yet scenic) feel to it. At about 50 miles it should be within reason (and only needs one new unit built to complete all common train types with a full timetable, with the Class 171 having reuse potential as a Class 170 on many other routes). And if route merging/portals were a thing in the future you could travel all the way from Victoria to Ashford via the south coast, which would take nearly 3 hours.
     
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  8. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely, Ore is only one station further along. Plus, Ore receives direct services from London Victoria (with half the train splitting at Eastbourne) whereas Hastings-terminating services originate from Brighton.
    I agree with this. The Class 170/171 being included could also add as a unique, albeit very small layer at East Croydon on BML for the Uckfield services.
    I was in Hastings a couple weeks ago after travelling on a Victoria-originating service, quite a nice station.
    IMG_20210828_125626.jpg

    Just another thing to add, this part of the route is served by Southeastern, for example, services between Hastings and London Charing Cross which could be added in as Class 375 AI. Just outside St Leonards there's a depot too right on the coast, maybe some bonus drivebale Southeastern services?
     
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  9. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Route length is becoming a Problem.

    Take GWE or SKA for example. The passenger local runs are great. Take Plenty of time. The High Speed services: They go very quickly due to the route length, no stops apart from the occasional HST at slough. Not a realistic depiction. In the real world, these HST's and ICEs would go to places like Oxford (Which is doable) and Frankfurt (which would also be Doable if DTG tried longer routes)
     
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  10. Asheix

    Asheix Member

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    I do like this idea and I have been on the Marshlink many times en route to Dover and Canterbury and it is a very scenic route. Below is a video from Hastings to Ashford International from the cab of a Hastings DEMU, which provides details on speed limits and other things like sidings, the name, and length of tunnels, local area information.
     
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  11. tbaac

    tbaac Active Member

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    How much would you be willing to pay for it? If it is developed and sold as a route extension then it'll sell less copies than a new route and although the cost of developing new assets and rolling stock would presumably be a lot less, less copies will be sold. So would you pay full route price for an extension? More than normal full route price? (to account for less copies being sold)
     
  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that you can't just recreate IC routes without also including the locals and regionals.
    Take GWE as an example. If you run up to Oxford rather then that's eight extra stations, with a major junction (off to Swindon at Didcot) and you'd still end up in the same situation. Many trains do NOT end at Oxford but go onto Cheltenham, Hereford etc.
    Reading to Oxford on a 80x is only 20 minutes also, so you're not adding that much time onto a run
     
  13. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    All those extensions take a giant effort to realise according timetables. For my self i would even spend money on each of the extensions , if they keep quality top notch.
    I guess every tsw customer has his own philosophy on what content he is gonna spend money.
     
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  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    THIS
    And the "problem" DTG have is that it's a diminishing return, as in if only 75% of players have the main route and only 50% of those buy an extension then that's 37.5% of the playerbase when a full new route might pick up 70-75% again
     
  15. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Active Member

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    I agree. I'm happy to spend cash on extensions, longer routes etc. As a console player, sometimes it feels alienating because of the availability of longer routes for PC. I know TSW and TSXX are different games, but that's not an excuse. DTG has expanded their community with consoles, the player base is there. The sales of DLCs from xbox and ps are there. They have staff and 3rd parties, so when others say its not possible, I don't believe it, I believe sometimes DTG just ignore it
     
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  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The two games aren't even in the same league so comparison is pointless. To create an asset in TSW takes much longer than in TS1, especially consists where you can walk through and see small details up close.
    I DO believe DTG when they say that it's development time that holds them back on creating longer routes, but not because of any comparison to other software. I believe them because we can see it in the way they do their preview streams. They show us unfinished and still in development software a week before it's supposed to be released, which to me says they're restricting their own development by putting restrictive dev time on the routes.
    That's the bigger issue when it comes to route length, almost as much as "where do they get the extra train assets from to cover such long routes"?
     
  17. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Active Member

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    Why can't they take there time with something like this, rather than fire out 10 unfinished dlcs every year. The release of RH has been a joke, the routes that release always seem like they've never been through Q and A.
    The suggestion pages are pointless. If you have one, it needs to be an essay, even though DTG have researchers, im sure. This is one of the few communities I'm apart of, that is lackluster in terms of response amd ideaa from the developers
     
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  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Simple economics. Keeping 100 people paid takes a fair amount of income, and from a niche hobby that's difficult.
    I think this difference between TSW and "other communities" is that as someone who is in the community I can go and stand on the platform IRL for as long as I wish and take in details of the trains, the sounds, how things look. I can go on the trains and look at the interiors, hear the noises etc and people want to have all of that portrayed in the game. Car driving games don't have the same issues (can't walk through the car, can you?) and plane flying games are normally brilliant in the cockpit and maybe even the cabin, but in the middle of nowhere, try flying at 100 feet and seeing if your house is represented correctly.
    In MS-FS this may be the case, but then having a Billion dollar a year military grade GPS and mapping system to fall back on probably helps.

    On these points specifically, I understand that DTG tend to "over promise and under deliver" so I factor that in. If you take them at their word then RH should all be out and people should be playing BML by now
    Given I know what they're likely to be putting out I don't get disappointed, but I realise others don't work this way and therefore DO get upset about things.
     
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  19. tbaac

    tbaac Active Member

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    The point of writing "an essay" for the suggestions page is that it is your chance to say why you think DTG (and other players) should care about the route. If you don't care enough about a route to write a few paragraphs about it, why should DTG care about that route in preference to a different one? They must get hundreds of suggestions "make the bullet train", "make that really fast train", "make the train that goes past my house", "make the Flying Scotsman, I read about it once", "make a route in Australia". Come up with a compelling reason why! If nothing else then it might encourage other players to support your idea.
     
  20. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    What if it's a discount if you buy it as a bundle? So those who don't own the base route may get tempted to get it as a pack
     
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  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    You're still reducing the income overall
     
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  22. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    Better 75% income from a new client than 0
     
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  23. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    But it doesn't work out that way. You're talking 100% income from 70% of clients and then SOME new clients will buy the route at 70% (on both the original route and the extension) whilst the original clients will then be asked to pay 70% on the extension as well???
    It's not a simple thing
     
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  24. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    Extension on its own can be full price, it's not a new businessmodel, ts classic has plenty extentions
     
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I can only think of one from DTG... North Wales coastal extension to Holyhead (no longer available since Virgin pulled the license)
    JustTrains have extensions on the GWR route, but that's not DTG so their model is likely different
     
  26. tbaac

    tbaac Active Member

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    Also, as we know, routes (and so presumably extensions) take longer to make for TSW and so will cost more to make.
     
  27. coursetim

    coursetim Member

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    I don't think this would even be that big of an extension but then ECW is one of the favourite British routes so it would as said be a good place to start?

    I'm writing this on a 377 from Brighton to Hastings and its only 1 hour 15mins from Brighton to Hastings via Eastbourne departed Brighton at 16:31 due to arrive at 17:44ish. But then if its too long they could slim it down a bit more? But it seems doable to me!

    Its just the price point which is debated above but I would definitely purchase it!
     
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  28. Asheix

    Asheix Member

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    I think it is doable too. I used to commute to Lewes College 5 days a week and often took the train to Brighton, Seaford, and London Victoria. I wonder whether a poll to the community to see if there is demand for it might be an idea? Then it could give DTG an idea if it is worth their time and effort.
     
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  29. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    I would reckon so, ECW seems to be one of the most popular routes. Additionally, while this is separate, there have been several polls over the last few months which have also shown the West Coastway to be quite a popular suggestion. Imagine how epic it would be if we had a full ECW and a new WCW route. Add to that BML, and you've got a really integrated network.
     
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  30. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Well-Known Member

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    No I can't see why they can't extend it, if they're doing the 50 odd mile Brighton to London which maybe the longest route in the game ?
     
  31. hasse#8149

    hasse#8149 Member

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    I think there would be a higher demand for these local eco systems build outs than some think. I like the idea of a complete route like the Bakerlooo line which is the only route that I know of is in its full length. I am from Sweden, so NO route is played where I live and feel most connected, I have some DLCs and one of the best it ECW no doubt. I instantly got hooked on the possibility to combine it with the Brighton Main line coming with Rush Hour to extend gameplay in a realistic way. I think its a let down when you get on a service to Hastings or on SEHS have to be ejected from the London Victoria trains because the route is incomplete. Things like that reduces immersion and realism. I would definitely want to buy extensions and integrations between the routes to get more out of the routes i fancy the most. Also i am very much for the idea to layer on AI trains from other operators to make the line crowded and diverse, even if we can’t drive those, I bet the same is true for players into the German routes.
     
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  32. Asheix

    Asheix Member

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    Hej, I am planning to move to Sweden. What you say is true. Immersion is seemingly sacrificed with many of these routes but I would think that is to be of benefit to the user's hardware, I don't really know. I am close to the other end of ECW that isn't included in the game which makes up part of my frustration for it not being included. When I first saw the SEHS screenshots and a train had Dover Priory on its dot Matrix board, I thought that DTG might have extended the line to there, but sadly not.
     
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  33. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately DTG can't do this sort of thing, else they would essentially have to build every route to everywhere in every country. There's always trains going somewhere off the map...
    Indeed if you go by that logic you would also need to have the Chatham Mainline (from Rochester into Victoria), the North Kent Lines (from Gravesend "straight on" rather than turning left into Ebbsfleet), and that would lead into Blackfriars, Luton and the MML
     
  34. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I’d prefer to see an extension to Wivelsfield/ Hayward’s Heath because it would then have the triangle with the BML.
     
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  35. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    I would definitely buy an extension to Hastings/Ore but would love it if the Keymer Junction to Lewes section were also included somehow. The Ashford alternative is also very appealing if the Class 171 were included.
     
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  36. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Ashford to Easbourne, 42¾ miles
    Lewes to Wivelsfield , 9¼ miles
    Total of 52 miles is achievable?
     
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  37. 43050

    43050 Active Member

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    Personally I’d love to see all the routes extended and branches added, I do see the issues with this though. I assume a big headache would be the timetabling. DTG have also said that the average time and route length a person plays is quite low so the current routes are around long enough for most players.

    Another way to create revenue and sell more dlc is to make locos / multiple units that would be layered onto as many routes as possible including scripting the timetables on said routes. This seems to be happening, most obviously on the German routes. But I imagine this is quite labour intensive to tweak timetables / randomize the loco type etc.

    Bottom line for me is I would buy anything that interests me. I do like to see a lot of various traffic especially different types. when I play and the option to drive them all.

    I bought the 465 when it was on sale, not really to drive on SEHS but to see them on the route. It’s a fab unit but the no real start point and finish point doesn’t do it for me, same with the 375 another worthy addition to the route that I have never driven for the same reasons as the above
    Once a route is release where the 465 could be used (Victoria - Dartford or similar) then I’ll be driving it a lot!

    I would be willing to pay full price for an addition if it came with at least one new unit / loco
     
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  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Why is everyone so obsessed with Victoria... :)

    465s are used out of Cannon Street and Charing Cross to Dartford on the North Kent lines far more than out of Victoria to Dartford, though they do run to Orpington from VIC and a few from Dover, but mainly they're stabled at Slade Green (along with 376s)
     
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  39. 43050

    43050 Active Member

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    You do have a fair point there
     
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