Concern About Dynamic Weather And Steep Grades

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by DarkWolf, Aug 31, 2022.

  1. DarkWolf

    DarkWolf Active Member

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    I like the idea of dynamic weather but I wonder how it will affect routes with steep grades?

    I've always been a bit miffed at how in TSW2 if you have snow on the ground it makes some services on Sand Patch and Sherman Hill impossible to complete. (I don't know if this happens on Horseshoe Curve as I haven't driven it much with snow yet) You reach a point where you start getting wheel slip, so you back off the power, so you loose speed, then you start wheel slipping again, so you back off the power etc. Sanding doesn't seem to help enough and you go through this cycle until you grind to a halt and cannot proceed. This can be really frustrating as sometimes you drive for 30 minutes or an hour before you reach that point and realize it was all for nought.

    I'm wondering if I am driving one of these routes with a heavy train in spring or fall with dynamic weather on am I going to possibly get a snow fall that stops me? Will the dynamic weather be kind of a dynamic service ender?

    DW
     
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  2. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Good question. I had some you couldn’t complete on Sherman in snow and I think response was along lines of “train that heavy wouldn’t run then”.

    thanks for wasting my life
     
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  3. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Rhein Ruhr Osten too has a whole selection of freight that cannot get up the hill out of Hagen in rain or snow.
    I too look forward to them addressing this issue.

    Don’t get me wrong, I quite like the slipping and the challenge that comes with it. It should not be impossible however.
     
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  4. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Since it's not impossible in real life it should not be impossible in-game.

    I thought they fixed this for TSW3 but seems not...
    Shows there is something fundamentally wrong with Simugraph
     
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  5. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

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    Surely, a simple if-then should apply.
    Selecting a weather type and train weight where it wouldn't be allowed to run IRL, then it should pop up a warning symbol before beginning.
     
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  6. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    well, no one has their hands on it yet to know either way….
     
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  7. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    I'm all for changeable weather, but hope the devs don't take it to extremes.
    Lightning only happens two or three times a year here.
    The thought of it appearing every third or forth route would be a major turn off.
    Moderation in all things.

    As for RRO, I cheat by exceeding the speed limit at the start to get up that hill.
    Does the management want the goods delivered or not.
     
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  8. dbrunner#4864

    dbrunner#4864 Well-Known Member

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    Sand is your friend. I have seen plenty of real life freight trains barely crawling on a steep hill or even stalling. It happens in real life so I'm up for the maximum realism and challenge the game has to offer. If a scenario is to difficult there are plenty others to chose from. I just can't wait to have a "normal" run and than suddenly you get hit by the nastiest weather that changes everything. Less traction, less braking efficiency, more brain usage :)
     
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  9. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    Changeable weather sounds like a good idea until it beats you and you think damn.
    I will want to try it in my streams and runs when I eventually get TSW 3.

    A few years ago we used to have some times 2 - 3 sand trains pass through my local station. Coming out of our station heading towards London we had a 1:80 incline called Parktone Bank. When ever we had heavy rain for a good day or two it always made the sand trains going up Parkstone bank much heavier. I think they were weighted between 1800 and 2000 tons in about 18 massive hopper wagons. When ever we had the heavy rain and the sand trains run they had to use a Class 66/6* on them. Most of the time they did. Some times they didnt. The video below shows what happens if you stick a class 66/5 on the front of the train.
    What generally happened then is the loco hauling 1800 tons of wet sand stalled halfway up the bank. This would then mean a possession would be put on the line by Network Rail (if all attempts failed in getting the train moving again). The loco would uncouple and the train secured on the bank. The loco would travel light engine to the next station then changelines and head back down to Poole change lines to head up the bank and couple to the rear of its freight train. It would then haul it back to the sidings at Poole where it would await for a rescue locomotive to push it up the bank. 99.5% of the time this was successful. But it was a great source for video material if sometimes it meant getting absolutely drenched!. This is the sort of thing I would love to see in TSW but it would have to be a scenario I think because of the complexity of the work.



    Cheers
    Hentis
     
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  10. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    How do they manage in alaska? I've been up a few grades in the snow, it's not easy but doable.
     
  11. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    Rather obvious you didn't read the original post...
     
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  12. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    If Simugraph makes situations that are possible in real life impossible then there is something wrong with the simulation
     
  13. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Simugraph is unable to model the skill of the drivers...
     
  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    More locomotives.
     
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  15. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    In real life they will either not dispatch the train in such weather conditions or they might add more helper locomotives to counter the low grip. TSW however does not simulate this, the same service in the timetable will go with the same number of locomotives, regardless of the weather. So the issue is that when a service is set up with 4 locomotives for example, it's good power/weight balance for a normal day, but not a rainy/snowy day.

    So it's not really an issue of physics simulation, simply the fact that the game doesn't give you enough locomotives for a bad situation. Of course if it would, then the trains for clear days would be overpowered, which would also be unrealistic. I suppose the only solution for this would be some sort of dynamic locomotive allocation for services.

    But let's remember, sometimes trains will stall in real life as well. So if it happens, it happens.
     
  16. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Ah the wonky adhesion physics, TSW2's "new" feature. Can't wait to see how it'll break the game this time :)
     
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  17. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Would be nice if freight consists in TSWs timetable mode were more dynamic, it sucks that pretty much every formation is the same with the same amount of cars and same amount of engines.

    Example would be something like Manifest XXXX can spawn between 80-110 cars, weight is between X & Y. Locos dispatched for the consist depends in the amount of cars, weight of the train, and potential weather conditions.
     
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  18. DarkWolf

    DarkWolf Active Member

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    Yeah this issue is not one of not having banking comms on or not using sand.

    This would be helpful at the least, or automatically remove services from the list that can't be completed with the selected weather options.

    I like the idea that the game should automatically shorten the train or add locomotives to compensate, presumably as they would in real life. Or it would be cool if they added something to the dispatcher function like "summon helper locomotives" and after 5 or 10 minutes a pair of additional locos would spawn a couple miles behind your train and hook up so you could keep going.

    I don't mind them trying to model something realistically but they should also model the realistic solutions no? This kinda feels like a flight sim where the scenario loads you down with more weight than the plane can carry. Sure you can start up, taxi out and make your takeoff run but when you keep ending up pranged in a field off the end of the runway cause the plane simply cannot take off with that weight you're gonna scratch your head and wonder why the game put you in that position to begin with.

    DW
     
  19. Whitsim

    Whitsim Member

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    IRL railroads don’t add or remove locos based on weather forecasts. It’s purely calculated by Horsepower per Ton ratio for the territory traversed. Poor weather which could cause low adhesion causes train operation conditions that the engineer must adjust accordingly to. That may mean not being able to get up to speed on upgrade or being more conservative on downgrades or approaching signals.

    Manned helpers are pretty much a relic from the past in US operations. Nowadays unmanned DPU is the norm.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2022
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