Concerned About Smoke Particles For Spirit Of Steam

To be perfectly honest, I think the particles done by victory works in TS (texture and shape wise, not behaviour) are light years ahead. Also, the fact the clip the chimney is just awful.

 

Actually I did sit back earlier and ponder. We are all getting hyped for this, forgetting that steam simulation is taken for granted to a high level of quality in TSC and MSTS before that. Heck even Trainz has steam traction, quite well done after a shaky start. So there really is no excuse for not getting the basics right such as smoke and steam effects. These should actually surpass what the other sims deliver and that should also extend to steam effects from the coaching stock when heating is on and the physics.

 

We need to consider this is still a work in progress. I'm sure there will be additional improvements . I think we're getting close on this route now

 

I am however mildly concerned that in the teaser video, we only saw steam from the funnel, and none from the cylinders, valve gear or the other many places from where teakettles spewed steam.

 

And the coaches. One of the most iconic sights (and smells) of the steam heat era was vapour leaking out of every joint and connector through the train.

 

Surprised no one has mentioned how poor and low resolution the texturing looks, yet again.

It looks particularly poor quality in the cab construct, on the controls and around the crank arms. It’s all much too clean and cartoon like.

 

Very much disagree, the cab roof for example, looks really good, full of soot stains (Talking as a real life fireman).

 

tbh, it looks ok. Yes it falls under the bracket of everything being somewhat clinical, but there are some impressions of weathering. To get higher quality would mean either more decals, or taking up more of the texture budget. So in Unreal's environment, I can somewhat forgive it.

 

That’s what I thought after I initially watched the preview video. However, the screenshots themselves seemed to look better.

 

That isn't my impression, from what I have seen so far it generally looks good and nicely detailed.

 

You can now also experience the smells of steam from your own home lol: https://shop.myonlinebooking.co.uk/...RRrCyBnfgumKg7erEOgqm-X7Q3sQwY5dcemi2DusDXTjk

(Borrowed from NYMR Facebook page)

 

Is it possible to backroll the particles collisions to clag from diesels or would it be too much effort for not enough payoff? Also, I agree with the above that I'd like to see steam coming from other places on the loco too, not just the chimney (I personally think the effects out the chimney are fine) - would like to see a video of the locos under power with the drains open.

 

Quick one then Matt… Will we get steam heat effects from the coaches during the heating period, roughly September to May? These and indeed all the other steam effects would also be subject to the influence of external ambient conditions, in particular temperature. You are going to get a much bigger plume of steam (and AP points for turning on the heating!) on a crisp cold January morning than a 80F July afternoon.

 

Would there be no new variables (some of internals) for the particles system exposed in UE4 console / Engine.ini that are internally used for tweaking or debugging, either? There are already plenty of game variables which can be tuned from the console (when unlocked) or set as a system setting in configuration files, which can't be set from the settings menu.

 

Yes, variability to the temperatures would be indeed very nice to have. It would make whole smoke, steam, more alive so much more alive...

 

I was thinking only yesterday if this kind of thing existed (I had guessed probably not) and wondering if DTG could commission scented candles for their routes for extra immersion. I wasn’t even taking my thoughts that seriously and now you post this. I’m flabbergasted!

 

I am definately going to have to get some of those!

 

That is very kind of you. I have to acknowledge Chris Barnes who provided us with the main steam textures many years ago which I think are pretty much perfect. The key is having multiple emitters that are script controlled to create the relevant visual effects as well as adjusting the flows based on what is happening at the time.

As far as TSW2 goes, I have full faith that Matt will make it as good as it can be - he's a big kettle lover at heart

 

Yes, but the WIP version is what we ususally end up getting on release day. Maybe they'll make it better down the road, in a year or two... Wouldn't hold my breath. Matt seems to care about it, but it won't matter...

 

Pretty useless comment. Gran Turismo 3 (2001) had better particle effects.

 

I watched the preview for the sound Q&A (Judging from above, I'm glad Matt got to be a fireman).

I could be tripping (dunno if the screenshots are an older or newer build)... but this looks much more convincing. Individual particles are indistinguishable and there's a nicer buildup of exhaust smoke, with shadowing. Transparent edges are more subtle.

So cautiously optimistic. Can't wait for new previews

 

That shot's from more of a head-on view point, the other shots we've been judging up to this point are from a sideways viewpoint. It's possible these are the same steam effects, and they just look better looking from the front than the side. Not saying it couldn't be actual improvements, but honestly until I see improvements in motion I'm believing the steam effects we've seen are going to end up being the ones we get.

 

Agree on seeing more footage, but if you watch the video, there are more previews of the particles at various angles, which looks rather different from what was seen previously (and at various angles too).

We'll wait and see.

 

What will be interesting is steam on the bridges/tunnels/infrastructure. Also as most of the "world" away from the track is an invisible wall. Will steam bounce off these invisible walls or will they allow it to disperse?

 

We already have it confirmed that steam does interact with the environment. Invisible walls only apply to player entities.

 

Is it me or does the colour light signal in that screenshot have a feathers in the 3 and 4 positions (diverging left and right)? I’m not sure when feathers were introduced, but I would have sworn it was later than 1958. I could be wrong, but I would have expected multiple junction colour lights (like semaphores were) or theatre indications. It’s been more than 30 years since I worked in signalling, can anyone confirm?

 

A few google searches later...

The position light junction indicator (to give it the full proper name, known nowadays as a 'JI') originated on the LNER in the 1930s. It was found that on splitting signals with a separate head for each route the colours could merge and produce a white light when sighting the signal at a distance. One idea tried to get round this was to use approach lit signals (i.e. there was no light in the signal until the train operated an approach track circuit) but the next step was to use a neon tube to indicate the route placed above the head and at an angle to it for diverging routes or vertical above it for the straight ahead route.
The neon tubes weren't, it seems an outstanding success so the next step was to use a row of 5 'lunar white' lights and not bother with one for the straight ahead route - thus giving the 6 positions for JIs which we have known ever since. Both types are illustrated on p.58 of Michael Vanns' 'An Illustrated History of Signalling'. Vanns doesn't quote a date although he implies it came along with the Thirsk resignalling in 1933 but I have suspicion from something I read elsewhere that it might have been a little later although definitely no later than 1935
The Southern had not been bothered by the 'white light' phenomenon as its colour lights were not only more closely saced than the LNER 'racing stretch' around Thirsk but were not visible from such great distances . And just to be different when it adopted teh JI it used 3 lights instead of 5.
(taken from https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/52343-feather-signals/)

 

Crewe South Jn had colour lights from when the ARP style box was built in 1930 - with feathers, so the devs have definately done their research

 

Good to know, thanks guys

 

Must say this looks very promising edit: steam from the chimney looks very promising

 

It also looks very washed out. I've never seen grass in wartime green but I guess we have a first for everything.

 

Looks good but slightly strange as there is no other steam emanating from the loco such as the slight leaks one would expect here and there.

 

In other screenshots there is evidence of steam coming fro places other than the chimney.

 

For a warm summer day it's a alot of steam.
We only see summer fotos. What's about steam in winter ? It has to be really different to summer.

 

DTG JD when you do the steam streams could we please see how the steam manifests/ potentially looks different in varying weathers etc.

id be interested to see how it’s like with fps counter on in heavy rain.

thank you

 

We'll hopefully see it in one of the previews, if not tomorrow, then in the next week.

 

Or just do it before you guys end this stream and Next week you could show the Journey/Scenario/Service section before driving the 8F

 

I think it's more to see if ambient temperature affects the intensity of the steam effects.

 

So am I, but that’s a different story

sorry, couldn’t resist…

Very much looking forward to the stream tonight!

 

Stream was alot more impressive than past footage. Nice work DTG.
My points for improvement for the future...

The Obvious
- Exhaust Colour based on fuel burn
- Temperature modelling and different viscosities of exhaust

Other points
- A little more turbidity
- Edge blending on particles so when a polygon clips a carriage or scenery, it's not immediately obvious.
- Variations in particle life
- Smaller, short-life particle emission from the smokestack and deeper within the stack to avoid obvious particle drawing
- Experiments with chuff synchronisation
- Maybe more experiments with particle interaction with the environment? Particles get blocked which is good, but they will still have momentum and escape to areas of lower pressure.