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Core Focus Of Train Sim World?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by ChaoticRambo, Aug 17, 2020.

  1. ChaoticRambo

    ChaoticRambo New Member

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    Okay, I am going to preface my post by saying that this is not meant to be a "bash Dovetail" thread at all. My questions are not meant to be sarcastic, but I am genuinely curious.

    What is the core audience meant to be for this game. Is it meant to focus on modern passenger services marketed for the average gamer (vs. train fan) on consoles?

    I am an avid train fan in nearly all aspects. I enjoy train watching, riding trains, I have model trains and have experience with just about any scale you can imagine. However, there are only two rail sim games I have found that have captured my attention for any amount of time. That was Railworks / Train Simulator and Derail Valley.

    I hate to invest more money in DLC for Train Simulator though because "Train Sim World is the future."

    As much as I want to like Train Sim World, mainly for its graphics, I get so bored of it. Every DLC seems the same. Maybe this is just a personal matter and not an issue with the game. I honestly couldn't care less about passenger service and there is just no real focus on freight, especially switching (I am also not sure if they could have selected a more boring route for the only American freight route). And the few scenarios that do have switching hold your hand every step of the way instead of giving to a list of what to do and sending you off to do it however you see fit. There is also a complete void of any historical American routes / locomotives.

    I am beginning to think that I should just ignore this game until a proper editor is released (if it is ever), because my favorite DLC for Train Simulator were ones made by other companies. Perhaps the things I am looking for in a route/DLC is just such a minority that Dovetail cannot/will not put resources towards them.

    Again, I know this probably comes off as whiny or bashing, but this comes from a place on genuinely wanting this game to be awesome. I bought CSX Heavy Haul as soon as it was released - it had its bugs, but I was so excited. And I just haven't been able to be hooked by the game or any of the DLC yet and after 3 years of waiting, I am beginning to think this future of Train Sim World just doesn't match with what I am looking for...
     
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  2. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    I think the challenging tasks I find dtg have is trying to have the write mix of routes obviously it depends if they can get licences and they can get to the place to take evidence but for me I only buy routes that A I know I will enjoy or interested in B are in good quality and C and what I'm buying is worth my time ie buying another German route so I can play on a loco on a different route. If I was honest I found what you said quite interesting an dnot whiny at all just your honest opinion which is nothing wrong.
     
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  3. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    What are your favorite DLCs in Train Simulator?
    Max two choices.
     
  4. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    They said this year the focus are high speed trains, so I think we will get quite a few routes around that.
    The good news is that DTG usually wants to have DLC for every kind of player, and AFAIK there is no route (preserved or new) that delivers the experience that you wrote about. So maybe with some luck they will make one.

    PS: Right now, the closest thing is probably Oakville Subdivision, but it falls short in the pick and deliver cargo to different industries along the track department.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2020
  5. ChaoticRambo

    ChaoticRambo New Member

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    Horseshoe Curve w/ PRR Add-ons
    Clear Creek Narrow Gauge
     
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  6. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    In the future, please start your own thread (for this one, a poll would be appropriate; but this question has been posed already numerous times) rather than disrupting someone else's.
     
  7. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Like ChaoticRambo, I much prefer switching tasks to simply moving freight along the tracks or trying to stick to a passenger run's schedule. Like so many posters in these forums, I'm very disappointed by DTG's decision to abandon the editor and hopeful that it may still appear. I've already put my money down for TSW2, almost solely on the basis of DTG's description of the new version of the CSX route, since neither short ice-train drips nor underground borings attract me. I don't begrudge others their preferences, but do join ChaoticRambo by identifying mine.
    I'm looking forward to tomorrow!
     
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  8. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Active Member

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    Yes I feel the same as you. i think that the problem is that the every service or scenario is predicable. I'm hoping that the scenario planner will change that. But the major problem for me is the lack of in depth signaller. Also there aren't any randomness in the train operations. So thats why all the routes feel the same like you played them already.
     
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  9. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    With regard to the original post, let's have a little less looking down our collective noses at those who play on console as somehow "lesser" train fans. It's a fine post, but platform bias is not welcome.
     
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  10. ChaoticRambo

    ChaoticRambo New Member

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    My intention was not to look down on console users, but the fact is any game developed for all platforms is going to have to make design choices based on the limitations consoles have when compared to PC. A game that markets to both will never be able to be as good as one marketed only for PC. Its not to say the game is not good on console, but simply that a game could be more complex and demanding if built only for PC. This is a simple matter of power, not an issue of being lesser fans or inferior. Although I am sure you could make the case that the extra income from sales on console (which would likely not be purchased on PC) allow for further development and a bigger staff.

    My intention is not to argue over one platform or another and whether or not it is good for the game to be on all platforms, that is a decision that has already been made and is not likely to change.

    What I am more concerned about is the focus of the game moving forward and whether or not there will ever be routes and locomotives for other niches within the train fan community or if this game has a singular focus.
     
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  11. Joker729

    Joker729 Member

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    I agree with ChaoticRambo in the sense of games marketed for both consoles and PCs do, in large part, tend to be limited to the functional abilities of the consoles. I'm hoping this improves in the future, especially now with most consoles able to now utilize keyboards to supplement their functionality. I'm very hopeful that with the release of TSW2, we are looking at the main platform DTG intends to use for further train simulator development. Despite Train Simulator being a very mature and well developed game, it's also extremely old and uses very old APIs and graphics. I'm very hopeful for a better editor and, now with them bringing in 3rd party developers now, more routes with more variety in the future. I too am hoping for more focus on freight rail lines myself.
     
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  12. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    I am a console player, DTG made it possible for me to enjoy my hobby. I think that by itself is something very special about TSW. If you are a fan of trains in the least bit I think there will be something for you. DTG have been incorporating more variety in scenarios and services in their routes. DTG have about 4 years of experience since their first TSW route Heavy haul. They have definitely improved in a lot of areas and I think you would find the more recent routes very enjoyable.
     
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  13. Joker729

    Joker729 Member

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    Agreed. Especially now with the Roadmap released, we can get a somewhat better idea of where the platform will be going. I know I spotted at least two new freight lines coming up soon from the third party vendors. Given the high fidelity and quality of TSW2020, this makes me that much more hopeful that DTG will put all their train sim efforts into this platform for the future.
     
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  14. ChaoticRambo

    ChaoticRambo New Member

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    Railworks / Train Simulator was released in 2009 and received yearly FREE updates every year, including this year, making the most recent version Train Simulator 2020. As of right now, there are 595 DLC for this game, some of which are routes including all new locomotives and rolling stock, others are just locomotives. But on average, that game has had 54 DLC released every single year. This doesn't even include the DLC that are marketed outside of steam which is not easy to count, but there are a lot of them.

    Train Sim World 2020 currently has 26 DLC and was released in 2018. This is 13 DLC per year. This is less than 1/4th the amount of content.

    My concern, and again, I say this from a place of REALLY REALLY wanting to love this game, is that because of the limitations DTG are putting on THEMSELVES by not having more third party development, there will be niches in the train fan community that will never be filled. As I have said before, because of my interests, there is not a single route that has been released for this game that even remotely interest me. I have spent literally thousands of dollars on model trains, and none of these DLC interest me enough to drop $20 or $30 on them.

    There are 5 routes that have been released for the US, only one of which is a primarily freight route. The US has the largest rail network of any other country by a HUGE margin. And passenger service is an incredibly small percentage of the overall railroad industry. The oldest locomotive is also from 1972 for the US. I just don't understand the incredibly limited focus DTG is putting on the era and types of DLC they are releasing. Essentially every DLC is focused on passenger service and is set in the modern era. This isn't even an argument over platform, but the core focus of the game.
     
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  15. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    I understand your concern, luckily Rivet games has already created the DB204 for TSW, they also have an upcoming Isle of Wight route for TSW2 and they also have the Arosa line in Switzerland on the roadmap. Another 3rd party developer Skyhook also has releases lined up for TSW2. Im certain we will see more 3rd party developers working with DTG on TSW2 content. As a fan is USA freight routes myself. Things like the Cane creek route on the roadmap makes me excited. I’m also certain we will start to see a variety of trains from different eras over time. DTG just released TSW2 which seems like a good platform to release content on once it has time to be created.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  16. olikas.g

    olikas.g Member

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    As someone who doesn’t own a PC, and don’t wish to pay at least £2000 for a decent PC to be able to pay more for TS DLC, I’m happy that the game is on console. I’m not particularly interested in US routes whether they are passager or freight.

    Now if DTG would like to cater for both of us, then they would face an inpossible situation. Either they focus all their energy to please you or me, or find a common ground to try to give both of us some routes to play with. The fact that the existing North American freight route don’t interest you doesn’t mean that the game is heading to the wrong direction. But you are in a better position than me, because you can choose from over 500 other DLCs in TS, while I can’t. And I’m maybe a “lesser train fan”, because I don’t really care about liveries and all the different kinds of freight vagons, but I do care about well modelled scenery and stations.

    Reading the forums I’m sure there are so many different needs that DTG can’t make everybody happy. Today they made me happy.
     
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  17. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    The great strength of TS was the editor coupled with the workshop.
    TSW has gone for timetables at the expense of scenarios.
    I fully understand their worries about licencing and sharing, but we'll have to wait and see how the scenario planner develops.
    So far it's just timetable lite.

    Varied scenarios can add flavour to the same old routine.
     
  18. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Very good assessment. We've said already that we'll be improving the tool and we'll talk more about that when all the launch week fires have been extinguished.
     
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  19. olsbyn

    olsbyn Member

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    This made me laugh, I'm glad I'm not you right now :D

    davidh0501 I think going for timetables is a good idea, I also play TS2020, and the thing I really miss is timetables, ofc you can make your own, but there are some obstackles, some of them more easily overcome than others: the one that is the easiest to overcome is just creating a timetable out of your own head, but you still have to get your hands dirty with the editor by adding AI traffic and functioning destinations, then you have those of us that would love real timetables, and some of those are only printed to paper, and some are actually real collectibles you have to pay a lot of money for..and then again set up the AI in the editor..
    I am not saying you are wrong, we all have our own preferences, but personally I like having the timetables from start in the game, and then make my own special scenarios, or download someone elses scenarios, the playerbase of TS and TSW have a lot of creative minds :)
     
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  20. Joker729

    Joker729 Member

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    Clearly there are a lot of passionate railfans here, and that this particular platform is most certainly in its infancy, so to speak. I hope to see it rise to the level that the TS game did, and with the ability to have more DLCs and content created by the community. My guess is the devs at DTG feel the same. So the best thing we all can do is, like here, continue to communicate our wishes and suggestions for this platform's future, and support them as much as we can as long as we see them trying to build it into something we all love. I would, personally, LOVE to see more focus put on freight lines, not just in the US, but in other countries as well (can anyone say Australia?). I love the fidelity built into this game so far, and if we can get the third parties and the community rolled into it, this could be even greater.
     
  21. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Personally I prefer passenger over freight, and I guess DTG might be focusing on passengers because that's what the majority wants. Oakdale Subdivision seems to be the best route for freight shunting, although I don't own that particular DLC. There's a bit of shunting in Tees Valley, but not a lot. WSR has a bit of loco running around, but it's all passenger. Sand Patch Grade might actually be the 2nd best for shunting.

    Roadmap shows a few older US diesel engines are coming. FAQ on the website mentions that another engine update is needed to add steam engines.
     
  22. olsbyn

    olsbyn Member

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    *Oakville subdivision* is not the best for shunting, it's a very varied shortline, I'm a fan of it, though I know many don't like it, I'm very happy it's coming to TSW2 :)
    Sand Patch Grade is a good switching route, follow the "journey" and you'll be switching for days, but there is lot of hand holding there, so it's not hard, I agree with ChaoticRambo that it would be very fun and challenging with a list of tasks to do without the scenario pre-defining track choices.
     
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