I have been tinkering around with the free roam recently but I seem to have come across a but of a puzzling situation. The first occasion I had a 37 top & tail with Flying Scotsman with vac braked coaches. I had the 37 setup in vacuum passenger and it worked well until I changed ends to '103 when I could not get the train to move, I checked the gauges along the train and found the 37 was not releasing. The odd thing is I switched the 37 to air passenger and then it worked. Now I have a class 20 leading, class 31, vacuum braked coaches and a class 40 on the back. I set everything to vacuum, managed to get everything moving but the rolling brake test was not fun! It seemed like only the 20 or the 20 & 31 was braking, I checked the gauges in the BSO and it appeared to be showing 18" and the 40 was pretty much rolling. I tried the 40 on air but that prevented the brakes from releasing on the 40 (same with the 31). What are the correct modes for multiple locos on vacuum braked coaches for the brakes to function on all vehicles?
Just check the brake hoses available on both rolling stock and your locomotive to know which brake type you have to use. Everything (locomotives and wagons) has to use the same brake type. On british locomotives with dual brake types all coupled locomotives have to use the same brake type as well. Vacuum brakes have 1 single hose with a grey frontal connector Air brakes have 2 hoses with red and yellow "handshake" connectors Visit section 5.1 on this guide: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1693369538 In case of doubts after setting brake type you can check any wagon brake shoes (they are animated in game) to be sure that brakes are being applied and released. Cheers
Vacuum braked trains in tsw are a bit tricky when working in mu or at the rear (also for hauling). Here a guide for both types: Locomotive pair "dual braked" with air braked train: - all automatic brake valves except for the one in the leading cab are in position neutral / shut down - exhausters to off Locomotive pair "vacuum braked only " with vacuum braked train: - all automatic brake valves except for the one in the leading cab are in position release / driving - exhausters on the leading loco to on Technically in tsw only the steam locomotives are vacum only, so for hauling them you have to open the brake valve on the second engine, vacuum is created from the leading loco / (if the leading loco is steam u use the ejectors) - same if you haul steam locos with a class 37, the vacum is created in the 37, the steam loco needs an open brake valve with closed ejectors. Other condition inbtsw -Locomotive pair "dual braked" with vacuum braked train: - in real all automatic brake valves except for the one in the leading cab are in position neutral / shut down -in tsw however, when hauling / operating a pair of locos in mu, all automatic brake valves from the second / third loco have to be in release / driving For example you drive a pair of cl.31 in mu, and hauling 5 mki stock and a dead cl.33 at the end (train entirely vacuum operated): - exhausters only on the leading 31 on where the vacuum is created - automatic brake valve on the leading cab on release, second cab on the leading loco to neutral / shut down, all other locos even the one on the rear to release / driving. This way the brakes work as intended on the entire train.
The train is running vacuum brakes as the MK1s I have are vac only (Spirit of Steam), I don't think there is a way to chose which hoses are coupled and which are not as the leading locos automatically hook up both air brake, air res, vac brake, control air, and blue star control electrical. The only issue is the 40 on the rear seems to be trying to maintain the vacuum brake after the vac brake valve releases the air brake on the rear loco, thus keeping the brakes off How do I turn off the exhausters? I think that might be why the 40 won't let the brakes reapply again. .
I tested it, its working well actually, the duplex gauges show the same values as the leading cab. Just set up the brake valves well.
(The Brake selector on the pic of the 08 is still on air condition, it has to look down to vacuum) Here the exhauster isolation of the cl20.
Just to clear some things up here. Firstly top and tail dual braked locos isn't advisable but is possible. The quirk here is how dual braked locomotives control the vacuum brake. On dual braked locomotives the vacuum brake is slave to air brake, as such if the air brake is applied it will always want to destroy the vacuum. As such since the vacuum brake is applied so too is the locos own air brake. The application of the vacuum brake is done by the relay valve, there are subtle differences in how this is operates between locomotives. In reality generally speaking the rear loco has to be crewed and usually the brake valve is at running, although it is possible to go into the engine compartment to isolate the relay valve. On the vast majority of locomotives all switching the brake selector to vacuum does is turn on the vacuum exhausters, thats literally all it does. (well it also switches off one of the compressors but thats a minor one). There is one in exception TSW due to its age when it was created the Class 47. Now for the diesel at the rear following needs to be done. Class 47 - Brake selector to Vacuum and a brake valve to running. Keep reverser off. There is no way to isolate the relay valve on this loco Class 45 - Brake valve to running. Brake selector can remain in air pass. Keep reverser in off. Class 33 - Brake System Selector to Vacuum Isolated, this isolates the relay valve. Class 37 - Brake valve to Neutral, Brake selector to Air Pass, this isolates the relay valve. Class 40 - Brake valve to Neutral, Brake selector to Air Pass, this isolates the relay valve. Class 31 - Brake valve to Neutral, Neutral isolates the relay valve. Class 20 - Brake valve to Neutral, Neutral isolates the relay valve Class 08 - Just don't. Note unless I have said so, the rear loco does not need to be in vacuum. If the vacuum pipe is connected and vacuum is created, the brake distributor will automatically convert it self over to vacuum brake operation. The above applies also for locomotives in multiple, although you will need to check the connection between locomotives to ensure the vacuum pipes not the air pipes are connected. By default I think the air pipes are connected. To change them you will need to uncouple and recouple with one of the locos having the brake selector set to vacuum. Theoretically it is possible to have the slave loco operate the vacuum brake as well with the lead loco set to Air Pass, and the trailing loco set to vacuum. In this case the trailing loco must have its brake valves set to neutral, except the 31/20 thinking about it hmm. Edit, ignore doing it that way, likely to lead to more problems, do it the first way Finally it is always advisable to do a brake continuity test. Release the brake from the lead end, check the gauge at the rear reads 21"Hg and the brake cylinder reads 0psi, make an emergency application, check that the vacuum on the rear has dropped to 0"Hg (as has the front), and check the brake cylinder on the rear loco registers a pressure. Oh and if you have a dual brake coach in between it gets a whole lot messier... so just don't do that. It can be done but its a right old faff.
Many thanks for the detailed explanation, also i noticed the main reservoir hoses are not connected well between the different loco types in tsw. Technically when assisting a "failed" loco from the front, you ran out of air at some point. (Except the compeessor / engine is still working) Devs really need to pay more attentions to the hoses, literally typical dtg, setting up a huge complex brake system successfully, but forget to connect the right hoses on half of the rolling uk stock..
Quick question: I have a lot of material for the cl33, but never could find any information about the vacum relay valve. Since crompton was kind of ahead to its time with this "dual" braked loco out of the factory, im asking me if the vacuum relay chamber vents automaticly when switching from vacuum to air.
So IRL if you have a 24 (vac only), 47 (dual), MK1s (vac in use) in that order, would the 47 be set to air passenger as the exhauster is not creating the train vacuum or just with TSW?
This should answer a few of your questions in the basic principle. Remember a loco declaired as vacuum "only" is ment, there is no air brake system, except maybe the direct loco brake. You will notice quickly the next problem with MU working in TSW when it comes to vacum braked conditions. For some reason DTG decided to invest time in a really nice advance brake system, which is actually mostly realistic for a sim, but the Main reservoir hoses dont get coupled in the second loco. Even in Air braked condition they mostly get coupled randomly, which is a major let down. It means your second loco will run out of Main Reservoir Air without a compressor if you haul it as "dead" engine. They developed a complex system and botched it with a small silly detail. But as a walkaround you can just let the engine running on the second loco, so your train has at least the main Res air.
Thanks for showing that. Would that be the same as on a double header on a diesel gala, would it you just leave it in "Vac Pass" and just turn off the exhauster? Edit: I also noticed the brake handle positions are different depending on if the leading loco is dual or vac only, does this mean that with a double header, the air and vac hoses should be coupled? Also is this wat it means by being EQ braked?
I don't know if it's modelled like that in TSW, but I've found in the AP Class 40 manual for TSC it's stated that when running vacuum, the brake handle in the second cab must be set to running, when using airbrakes it must be in Shutdown.
